I could not fucking agree more Chief! 15 minutes! I wouldnt marry the fucking whore. Plain and simple.
This question reminded me of the near ending of chasing amy so I thought I would post the conversation just in case you hadn’t seen it. Before the conversation the boyfriend had proposed a 3 some because of different situation. I think that the little speech will be relavent.
(Holden is the bf and Banky is the other guy in the proposed threesome.)
ALYSSA
No, it will. Maybe you’ll see me
differently from then on - maybe
you’ll despise me for going along with
it, once you’re in the moment. Maybe
I’ll moan differently and then you’ll
resent Banky, and become suspicious of
us. Or you’ll alienate him because of
it, and then grow to blame and hate me
for the deterioration of your
friendship. Or what if- I sincerely
doubt it, but what if - I saw
something in Banky that I never saw
before, and fell in love with him and
left you. I’ve been down roads like
this before; many times. I know you
feel doing this will broaden your
horizons and give you experience. But
I’ve had those experiences on my own.
I can’t accompany you on your’s. I’m
past that now.
(touches his face; stares to
cry)
Or maybe I just love you too much.
And I feel hurt and let down that
you’d want to share me with anyone.
Because I never wanted to share you
(holds it in; gets up)
Regardless I can’t be a part of this.
(beat)
Or you. Not anymore
(hugs him)
I love you. I always will. Know
that.
She releases him, then slaps him.
ALYSSA
But I’m not your fucking whore.
Hope it helps a little.
I think you guys are forgetting how trivial sex is when compared to love.
So if you love someone and are in a commited relationship or married, then its alright to have sex with other people? Only if your in love.
I SAID GODDAMN, THATS A CONVENIENT LOOPHOLE! GIMME SOMMA THAT! Bring on the sluts!
Tuba started this thread interested in opinions (positive and negative) and advice. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE THINGS AND GRATUITOUS ABUSE.
“you people?” C’mon, now you are beginning to look like your head is still back in that car. A lot of people busted their asses trying to compose throughtful responses to you. A few people worded their opinions strongly. But you lump us all together as “you people” and say a sarcastic “thanks a lot?” Tell us all we made you cry? I’m not offended so much as puzzled.
I think this is symptomatic of the fact that getting married is an emotional thing. Shoot, I waited until I was 30 and I still had a few bawling freak-outs near the event. I don’t think your judgment is at its best right now. Not about the sex thing, not about the message boards, and maybe not about the marriage. I think you would really benefit from talking to someone, just get all these wacko feelings out and try to get the emotional roller coaster evened out a bit. No more “help me out”/“I hate all you mean people”, no more “I’m making out with someone else for a quarter of an hour”/“I’ve never been more in love with my fiance.” That sort of wild ride has got to be taking a toll. Go to that altar feeling like yourself, not Janus.
There is no way you two kids *(yes. I said kids. I don’t give a rat’s ass that you’re old enough to vote.)*are ready for marriage.
tubagirl: Just how would you have felt if Chris had asked this question? Sit down and really, really think how you would feel if the one you love had been “making out and stuff” with another woman? That he was deeply fantasizing about this woman, and not thinking about his bride? It’s uncomfortable, isn’t it? It might even hurt. I think you’ve been walking over your fiance with your selfishness.
You’ve asked for advice and opinions. You might not like what you’re hearing–but you’re hearing honesty. Truth hurts.
Postpone the wedding. Stay together, just don’t be promising each other “forever” until you’re ready.
I speak from experience. I basically did almost the exact same thing you did, just that I was 21 when I did it. I should have listened to my friends and relatives, and not married–I was “sooo in love” just as you were. Found out, that being “sooo in love” is not the only thing that builds a marriage.
Trust and respect builds a marriage. I didn’t have either, and the marriage fell apart in less than two years. Yes, I was a fuckin’ slut, too. I screwed around; he screwed around to get right back at me. I married young; I married dumb. Got divorced, got my ass kicked around emotionally, dealt with years of guilt, patched myself up with the help of a therapist, didn’t have a date for 2 years until I got my shit together, and had it in my heart that I was never going to do what I did again.
I’m saying this because bad marriages hurt. I don’t want to see you kids get married and realize once the honeymoon is over that this was the wrong thing to do. You two have your entire lives to marry and have a family. I know how it feels to be nineteen and ready to hit life full speed.
If you kids are going on with the wedding because you’re afraid what people will think if you postpone–don’t worry about it. More people will be understanding (and I’m sure that most of them will breathe a sigh of relief) and will be supportive of the move than you think. Ok, so you might lose some money here and there, but a postponement is worth it in the long run, next to a bitter divorce a few years down the road.
Even though the posters here have been harsh, they’re being harsh for a reason–you need to hear the truth. I know you don’t want to hear it (I certainly didn’t want to hear it myself) because you’re still so much in that cloud of romanticism of getting married and being in your first long-term, loving relationship. You’re young, and this is all so exciting–it must feel like we’re sticking needles into all your big bubbly thoughts of love and marriage.
Please–seriously consider postponing. If you’re dead set on marrying now, then, go to a pre-marriage counselor–there are serious concerns here, and you two need to work these things out NOW. Who is officiating the ceremony? If you two go to services regularly, and know the <insert religious mentor title here>, you two should make an appointment NOW and talk to them.
I do want you two to have a happy and healthy marriage that lasts a lifetime. Please, don’t screw it up.
Oh Lordy . . .
I have but one thing to say to you. Even if it is the most phenomenal sex you’ve ever had . . . Chris is better. If anything, use what your coworker showed you with Chris. Suggest things to him.
I am so glad I’m not in this situation. I’d hate to be Chris for this kind of situation. I’d hate to be you deciding. Hell, I hate being in this situation. But I put myself here and I hope you at least consider differing opinions on this matter.
[soapbox]This, my friends, is one reason I don’t believe in sex before marriage.[/soapbox]
I’m a fucking slut. I’m a fucking whore. I’m pretty goddamned lucky that my doormat of a husband didn’t kick me out on my ass when I fucked around on him. I should be kissing his feet every morning for letting the sunshine grace my face in his house.
Except for one small detail.
HE LOVES ME. He loves me so much that he understands that…and I know I’m repeating myself here…IT ISN’T ALL ABOUT SEX. I mean, christ. If she’d run up $10,000.00 on his credit card without telling him, should he have dumped her? No? Why? Because it’s not all about the money? Okay, then…
Just because your personal moral code says, “Sex outside of marriage is the worst thing that could possibly happen and deserves no forgiveness,” someone else’s may NOT, and that may work JUST FINE for them. Just because YOU are built to kick someone you love deeply out to the curb does not mean everyone is.
Am I too immature to get married? Am I? I’m in my eighth year of marriage to this guy, and we are so into each other and so open and trusting it stuns me. No, we’re not both out bed-hopping at every opportunity and preaching free love. As a matter of fact, at this point and for a long time, we’ve both been strictly monogamous. Because of the mistakes I made, and the later “whoring around” (as I’m sure some of you will feel it was, because I’m a worthless hunk of skin) I did with his knowledge, we have grown to fully understand that we can trust each other with ANYTHING. He knows I won’t sleep around on him. He knows that if ever I am in confusion because I am strongly attracted to someone, I will come to him no matter what, because we’ve been through that. And he won’t condemn me for it, because for both of us there is NO ONE we would rather fall asleep with, and NO ONE we would rather wake up next to. Because of all of this, I also know that if he gets desperate to hook up with some woman he knows, he can TELL me.
I can’t believe the rampant assholishness and unforgiving natures of some of the people who have posted. I mean, if it ever happens to you, I would not condemn you in the slightest for kicking her to the curb. That’s the way you feel. And this is the way I feel, and it doesn’t effect you. If I fuck your husband or wife, call me a whore. If I try to fuck you, call me a whore. I mean, honestly.
Well, you are the one that said it.
Slut n. … 2. a. A woman of loose morals. – American Heritage Dictionary.
I’m sorry, but if the shoe fits…
When I finally hook up with another woman, even if there is NO sign of trouble, I will insist we get premarital counselling. It’s surprising how much you can get out of having a (properly trained) disinterested party listen to the two of you talk about your expectations and desires. It will give you a deeper understanding of each other, and will help each of you get lumber out of your eyes you didn’t even know was there.
It’ll help you grow together.
Good luck, and may G-d bless.
~~Baloo
Loose morals by YOUR definition. Not my husband’s and mine.
I and he go out of our way to make sure that we don’t mess with anyone else’s moral code as we follow ours. Now, I’m talking pretty specific morals here; I don’t want to get into the “Well, this guy thinks killing is moral, so how is that different?” argument, because no comparison can be made. If you kill someone, you are obviously trying directly to harm them, and that is obviously unacceptable.
Neither I nor my husband is out to harm anyone. The couple of times I dallied, it was with people who were also emotionally fine with it, and who had no partner to take into account. How are these morals loose? I don’t lie. I don’t cheat*. I don’t steal. I try to be pleasant to fellow humans. Where’s the lack of morality? Because I’ve had sex with someone else, anything else I do is a sham? I don’t think so.
- If you say, “When you sleep around you’re cheating on your husband.” No. When I did it behind his back, THAT was cheating. I haven’t done that in many years.
Tubagirl, one thing I forgot to mention . . .
Is life at work ever going to be the same? Think about it . . . working with a man you’ve had sex with, and him knowing you’re getting married to another guy . . .
While I think it was purely your choice, I also see confusion and a sense of not total committment in wanting to know how sex with another man would be. I don’t mean to lecture you at all, and I’m sorry if that’s how I come across. I don’t think it’s right for anyone to tell you what to do unless they’ve been in that position, because you truly do not know what you will do in a situation until it presents itself. You can say you’ll do X or Y, but without the actual situation . . . it’s all opinion and theory. Opinion you were asking for, but opinion without field trials is a bit empty.
Just my two cents. Don’t mean to insult anyone.
Hamadryad: This thread was not about you, but was for tubagirl and her request for our opinions and advice. If you want to continue to hijack the thread and rant, I kindly suggest that you move on to the Pit.
Thank You.
tubagirl, I wish you and Chris the very best. You asked an honest question that obviously touches some very sensitive nerves, so some of the answers won’t be very comfortable.
But I’d really advise you and Chris to wait a bit. Stay together, because you have a lot of love and good will going for you. BUT you both have some real issues that won’t get any better after marriage. You have some self image and esteem problems; Chris isn’t as experimental and has a lower sex drive. Those aren’t insurmountable problems, fer pity’s sake.
I gasp! “lived in sin” for almost 7 years–and never regretted a bit of it. It was a monogamous, committed relationship–at least on my side–and my only regret is that I didn’t listen to my instincts before agreeing to marry. (Yeah, I was hopelessly dense; yeah, he was sleeping around; no, I didn’t know.)
Because no matter what, marriage is promising. All the old issues, attractions, etc. are still right there, but a promise has been made. That changes things. There’s no harm, no foul in waiting for that promise awhile.
But it ain’t gonna get easier. It doesn’t solve insecurities, temptations, etc.–as you can see from some of the comments here. I’m glad, very glad that you pulled back making an a bigger mistake than you did, but the simple fact that you permitted an intense, 15 minute makeout session in a car, as an experimental prelude to sex isn’t a good sign.
I don’t want to heap coals of guilt on your head, but I’m a woman who firmly believes that we’re not passive victims, but rational adults fully responsible for our actions. No matter how muddled your thinking, you agreed to the scenario and cooperated in it. There were 2 people making out in that car–and you were a responsible half of the duo.
Take a long hard look at what you did, what you felt, what it caused your fiance, and see if you can honestly say that either of you are grounded enough that it won’t happen again, or it won’t matter if it does.
Take your time, keep loving…but make damned sure, surer than you’ve ever been, that you can live up to your promises in intent as well as actions.
Good luck to you both.
Veb
See, that’s the thing. We’re talking about morality, which doesn’t have any clear cut rules. Law is constant, morals are shaky.
For instance, you think it’s wrong for her to spend 15 minutes making out with a guy. Whereas I think it’s wrong for you to insult someone when they’re asking you for help. Whereas some others seem to think it’s wrong that I should chastise you about that. Obviously, our morals are quite a bit differant from eachother’s.
So by that definition, we’re pretty much all sluts. And remember what the bible says “Let he who is without slut, cast the first stone.”
This is going to sound like nit-picking, but it’s a trap that all too many people fall into:
There’s a big difference between planning a wedding ceremony and planning a marriage.
“Please give me as much advice as possible and all opinions.”
That’s what tuba asked for.
Freak said: “For instance, you think it’s wrong for her to spend 15 minutes making out with a guy. Whereas I think it’s wrong for you to insult someone when they’re asking you for help.”
I never said it was wrong. I said it made her a slut. If she want’s to be a slut that’s fine by me. She didn’t ask for help. She asked for advice and opinion.
My advice was not to to it – and I posted it three times!
If it makes you feel any better I’ll restate my assertion:
By most societies’ standards, tubagirl acted like a fuckin’ slut.
Freak, do you feel better now that I have aquiesced to your suggestions?
Chief, yer such a slut!