This has been my experience as well. From my observations, people will certain genuine problems seldom talk about them openly. But there are some self-described asexuals shouting it from the rooftops.
I sometimes wonder if the problem people have is not asexual/asperger’s, but simply being boring. They want something to define them. They see these oppressed outgroups- minorities, LBGTs, etc and want something similar about themselves that they can feel opressed about. I dont blame them- I’m a white guy in my thirties, middle class. I’m not some oppressed group or a unique snowflake. there’s no “Incubus history month”. So if I felt lonely/unimportant enough, I might exaggerate something about me, either to make myself more interesting or to garner sympathy. the internet is a great medium for people to act like this.
Again, that doesnt mean asexuals dont exist. But i’ll say that if I was one, i’d sure as hell keep it to myself. But again, the internet seems to take every dysfunction, every flaw and turn it, into a badge of pride.
How so? It’s the same thing we hear about gay people in denial. Even moreso, since gay culture is quite visible these days, while asexual culture isn’t. So someone who isn’t attracted to the opposite sex but to the same sex will probably eventually figure it out, while someone who has no sexual drive will probably assume it’s the same for everyone.
I’m curious why you care, Incubus. If someone wants to claim to be asexual to explain why you never see them with a partner, what is it to you? Sure, maybe they’re just an undatable nerd. But by claiming to be asexual, they may be avoiding the stigma that comes with involuntary celibacy. Why do you need to “out” them, so to speak?
OK, now we have determined that being asexual is a flaw, a source of shame, and ought to be hidden? Maybe you are looking at it all wrong, and the world which flaunts and thrives on sexuality (sometimes to unspeakable degrees) is what is being evolved out of by asexuality.
And maybe one could find pride in not needing sex for entertainment, sex for procreation, sex to prove something to ones buddies, sex for…
Society has judged sex to be part of a healthy relationship. We’ve only recently started to make the change to thinking sex is not only for procreation (hence homosexuality becoming more socially acceptable). People with low sex drives are given medication to help increase it. This isn’t a sign of a society that thrives or flaunts sex - that middle-aged man down the street with the nicely groomed yard who has been married to his high school sweetheart for 20 years takes ED drugs.
Now, when I come to think about it, I haven’t heard of many asexuals in relationships. I have an acquaintance in one, but I understand that there’s cuddling and physical affection but no sex. This is when I start thinking like Incubus. If sexuality is not needed for a romantic relationship, then why don’t you hear about asexuals in relationships? Or do asexuals have relationships, but just call their partner a friend to avoid the sex discussions with people? Or are asexuals also socially awkward and have trouble forming relationships?
I don’t think anyone here has said that asexuality is a flaw. It is an aberration from the median where the vast majority of all humans fall, just like hypersexuality. Both no doubt cause problems socially for those who are so wired. It is normal to avoid those areas of life in which we may find ourselves very different from most people.
As to the rest of your post, sex and sexuality is in itself a neutral thing, neither good nor bad. It is a biological necessity for the continuance of the species, and most humans find it pleasurable. It is intrinsic to the human experience. It is only when viewed through a filter of social customs and beliefs that we ascribe any ethical worth to the act.
What pride is there to be derived from not needing sex for entertainment? Nobody needs that. There are any number of activities to engage in that do not involve sex, and they are pursued by billions of humans every day. There is nothing special or unique about that.
How should one take pride in that we no longer must engage in the sexual act to reproduce? The doctors who developed the procedures could possibly take pleasure in their helping of infertile couples, or those like same sex couples who cannot biologically produce children. Unless you were one of those doctors I don’t see how there is any worth to holding that position. It all sounds like more nebulous, arrogant handwaving in a desperate attempt to validate what is either nothing more than a biological wiring, or a conscious choice. If it is the former, then there is nothing to be proud of, if the latter then it is no more worthy then any other choice to participate or abstain from any other activity.
I am not claiming to be an expert on this, I am not asexual, I am not judging sexual people as bad. I do not know if hypersexuality causes more or less problems for society or the individual than asexuality. I am reading posts where people speak so expertly about what SOCIETY (which has proven it’s perfection) has deemed right for everyone, along with labeling of people who claim to be asexuals as attention seekers, socially inept, and worse.
I was viewing the “socially normal” know- it -alls as being arrogant, and so typical a majority, who needs to mow down any people seen as different.
Frankly, all people should be self-honest and honest with others about their level of sexual desire. If they did, we’d probably have a lot fewer unhappily married people.
If someone who has no interest in sex feigns interest in order to further a relationship to the point of commitment or marriage, that person is committing an act of fraud and emotional abuse.
Has it occurred to you that this attitude that people who claim to be asexual must be dysfunctional losers who are lying about themselves because they don’t want to admit what huge losers they are might cause asexual people to develop social problems?
Again, I have never experienced this at all. I have read posts from people who say they don’t like sex very much or that they don’t enjoy the complicated dance involved in getting it. But I’ve encountered only a very few people who proudly say, “Yeah, I’m a big ole asexual!”
The overwhelming majority of people everywhere talk about their sexy sexuality, in my experience.
Do you think someone who “comes out” as asexual is automatically interesting? Do you feel sympathy for such a person? Do you think they are cool? Do you envy them?
Because I don’t. When I hear someone say they are asexual, I think, “Oh dear. They are very weird.” I think, “Oh, they are socially inept in some way and I hope they don’t talk to me.” I think, “They are probably just saying that because they are ugly or stupid.” I think, “Lord, why are they talking about this!? Who in the world cares?!” (Yes, I know how contradictory it is for me to think these thoughts.)
That is why I’m not convinced that there are a bunch of people jumping on the asexual bandwagon. I can only see that label carrying currency in limited contexts–like on message boards with a high geek factor. But even then, I don’t think it’s the need for attention or sympathy that is the motivation, but rather the desire to emphasize true membership to geekdom message boards. Kind of like what I noticed whenever I would visit schizoid boards. The posters would almost compete against each other in creating the most socially isolated persona possible (I haven’t spoken to anyone in eleven days. Oh yeah? I haven’t spoken to anyone in a whole month! And I haven’t changed my underwear the entire time.) Or over who is the most emotionally flattened (I watched my father kill himself right in front of me and afterwards I turned on the TV and watched “Good Times”. Oh yeah? Well, I watched my father throw a bag of puppies off a bridge before killing himself, and all I did was yawn and go back to sleep.)
I bet you a million bucks, though, those people do not talk that kind of shit in the real world, because they know 1) they are exaggerating their true personas and 2)you will receive little gravitas by admitting you are pathological in that way.
So yeah, I guess it makes sense to doubt people when they say they are asexual–but only in a context where there is a critical mass of others making the same claim. And especially if it’s a label they display prominently and make a big deal about. But otherwise, I would accept people at their word. And generally, it wouldn’t be something I’d spend a whole lot of time thinking about. As someone said before, it’s not really anyone’s business why a virgin is a virgin. Who is it hurting if they want to rationalize it as being a trait rather than a state?
This takes me back! I met a psychiatrist, back in the 80’s, who thought that homosexuality was, in fact, a form of mental illness. But he supported the change in the official psychiatric standards, so that homosexuality was no longer classified as mental illness. His reason? The change in labeling, alone, would make life better for many of his patients. He didn’t think they were normal, but if they thought they were normal, they’d be happier and healthier!
So, yeah! Agreement! Labeling people in this way is not good for anyone!
Leaving out the factor of the “internet” for a moment, and assuming this is an academic question.
Asexual may be used by some people to describe their own behavior rather than their sexual drive - or lack thereof. So you have to figure out what those people on the “internet” mean. (Don’t bother).
There are definitely asexual people which is 100% a physiological result of their hormonal profile. They can function in society as well as anyone and actualize any of their hopes and dreams, as well as anyone.
Why is the claim of being asexual interesting to you?
I am asexual. I’m 35, never had sex, I have no interest in it, I’m quite happy to live another however many decades without it. To whoever asked upthread, no I don’t masturbate and I don’t watch porn either.
I have no mental health issues, no endocrine or reproductive health problems, and no other health conditions that might cause low libido. I’m not particularly social, but there are plenty of loners with “normal” sex drives out there. I have friends both male and female, but my enjoyment of time with them has nothing to do with the notion of getting into something more intimate with any of them. I’m straight, because I do enjoy looking at a shirtless man whereas a topless woman makes me think “yeah, I’ve got those too, so what?” I don’t find the thought of sex icky or gross or scary. It’s more like how I feel about people who are into art/sports/hobbies I’m not: let them at it and I’ll do my own thing.
Sex just isn’t something I need or want to feel normal, anymore than I need or want to wear ruffly dresses and lipstick to feel like a woman.
And before this thread, I’ve never ever felt the urge to tell anyone, because it’s not the major defining characteristic of who I am as a person, and I’m not vain enough to think anyone would give a rat’s ass about my sex life or lack thereof.
I just wanted to speak up now to show that there ARE honest-to-goodness asexuals who aren’t just internet snowfwakes who are looking for a quick way to slap an “I’M SOOOO SPESHUL” label on themselves.
Interesting. So there is one data point, that would seem to agree with my observations. URT, would you agree then that a significant number of true asexuals are simply not observed due to the reasons you put forth? Secondly, do you think that a conclusion that many of the self professed, vocal asexuals are really nothing more that poseurs has merit?
I know this wasn’t aimed at me but I think it deserves a response anyway. I want to be clear that I’m going to speak broadly in this response, so no need to get worked up over specifics. I understand well that there are exceptions to every rule, etc..etc..
There are a lot of reasons people of normal libido might be interested in a claim of asexuality. Let’s try just a few of them out.
Simple curiosity. Sex is an intricate part of the human experience regardless of one’s own libido or orientation. Most humans fall into the middle of the range and thus it is natural to be curious or even incredulous at claims of a person lying so far to the outside. Asexuality is even more curious then hypersexuality because while most of us can understand the drive to want more sex, it is difficult to fathom someone who is claiming to have zero interest in it at all.
People often conflate affection with sex. Related to the first point, most people understand physical intimacy to be a prelude to stronger romantic feelings. Is someone who is claiming to be asexual then claiming that they don’t like affection at all? If they like being hugged or cuddled or even given a platonic kiss, then why wouldn’t they enjoy sex?
Confirmation bias. I posted above about this. In many people’s experience, the only asexuals they’ve interacted with tend to be social outcasts anyway. It is tempting to want to call “cite!?” on anyone who thus makes the claim. While people are accepting of differences in others to differing degrees, it is hard to be tolerant of someone who is trying to turn their obvious lack of social skills, (and unwillingness to even attempt a change) into a badge of honor.
Asexuals may deserve special protection or considerations under the law. How does one be sensitive to the needs of an asexual? We have made specific laws to help deal with sexual conflicts. Should a claim of asexuality be considered differently?
Asexuality is by definition, a disfunction; nobody wants their family or friends to have a problem. Just like hypersexuality, asexuality is technically a disfunction. While the former may create havoc in the lives of the partners of a hypersexual, an asexual fails to form such relationships at all. It is certainly less harmful to others, but it is not unreasonable to have well meaning concern for a family member or friend who is claiming to have no interest in a major part of the human experience due to wishing to hide from social ineptitude or cowardice.
There are loads more, but those are just a few of the reasons someone might care.
I can understand being curious, I guess. I just don’t understand why someone should care enough to doubt someone when they say what they believe they are. I wouldn’t doubt someone if they said they had a bizarre sex fetish, even though I can’t fathom being aroused by women’s shoes or diapers or whatever. There’s such a stigma associated with fetishes that I would just assume that someone wouldn’t lie about it. What’s in it for them? And I have no way of finding out if they are indeed lying about it, so why not just believe them?
Do you really not understand the difference between holding hands and having someone insert his penis into another person’s vagina or anus, over and over again?
At the risk of stating the obvious, one form of contact is less invasive, less, intrusive, less painful, and involves more skin-to-skin contact than the other. One has a psycho-physiological element (arousal, lubrication, erection, orgasm, etc.) while the other only requires a hand. Additionally, holding hands is something we start to do from a very early age (the same with hugging and kissing), and it does not require intimacy or even feelings of affection to do it. I’ve held plenty of hands growing up that belonged to people I didn’t like, because most hand-holding is simple courtesy and lasts all of 15 seconds. Can you say the same for sex?
Also, FWIW, some asexuals actually DON’T like physical contact. For instance, many of those so-called “weirdos” who self-identify as having various neurological issues.
This one is lame. Let’s go to the next.
You have not shown that being asexual carries with it any special gravitas. I haven’t experienced it here, where people tend to be welcoming of unusual creatures, so I’m wondering where–except for some geeky geekdom message boards that I do not participate in–a whole bunch of asexual people are getting special, loving attention. It would nice to have something besides what you and the OP say exist. Gotta cite?
I don’t understand this. Are you saying that asexuals are demanding special protection? Or you believe they do and you don’t appreciate that people are jumping on the bandwagon just to get consideration they don’t really deserve? I know there are asexual activists (AVEN) and I’m sure they have some kind of political agenda. But I haven’t heard of it. What have you heard?
It can be a dysfunction–a disorder or a problem. But only if a person wishes they had sexual feelings.
Otherwise, it’s not. There are some asexuals that really do not think they have a problem. They have friends and a healthy social life and may even have a spouse and children. So they don’t feel handicapped or “disordered” in an absolute sense. Their only problem is the notion that they MUST be handicapped or disordered.
As far as family and friends go, as long as an individual is not hurting or burdening anyone else, including themselves, then other people need to get a life and stop worrying. Why should anyone care what people think if it’s not affecting them?
You should probably go over to the AVEN website. Many asexuals are actually in relationships. They may be unconventional or “weird” relationships, but asexuality is not a failure to have partners. It’s a lack of interest in sexual activity. Which does not preclude romantic relationships. (Romantic feelings are not the same as sexual feelings, although the two usually go hand-in-hand).
I would worry about a loved one if they are unhappy and depressed. Or if they are harming other people or themselves.
In the absence of those things, I would not worry about a person.
Repression of the sex drive is not a new-fangled thing. What may be new is the eagerness to adopt a technical term–“asexual”. But the tendency for socially awkward people to refrain from the “game” is as old as dirt. Would it make you feel better if people like this just said, “I don’t want to have sex” or “I’m more comfortable being alone” instead of saying “I’m asexual”? I don’t really see the big difference in any of these statements, as asexuality is pretty much defined as having a lack of interest in sexual activity with another person.
Those cases where a person really wants to have sex with someone but is too afraid to admit it? While I agree these people exist, I don’t understand why these people should be so concerning. Either they will figure it out on their own when they meet someone they like–and in that case, they will hook up or they will try to learn how to hook up and it will be all good–or they will stay in denial and project their libidinal energies somewhere else. As monks and priests and nuns and Michaelangelos have done since forever. Either way, the mischaracterization is harmless.
Do you think those reasons are important enough to compel a self-identified asexual to reexamine themselves?
No, But I do think it’s fair for those of us who are not asexual to discuss our questions and concerns so that we might better understand the position of someone who identifies as such. Preferably with someone who identifies as asexual but disavows themself of the “outsider” gravitas of such.
That was kind of the point of listing a few reasons someone might care.
I also think that the term “asexual” is in itself a bit ridiculous and pretentious. It has little bearing to scientific meaning of the word in it’s usage here. I really hate words lawyering around but really..
So basically they just use it as a label to mean pretty much whatever they feel it does without any hard definition. Having a dry spell and fed up? Asexual. Just not ready for sex and uncomfortable with yourself? Asexual. It is too easy of an out to have a label and insist on everyone else respecting and celebrating your “difference”. The fact that they feel necessary to add that it is often a phase with many people is itself telling. Having spent a little time over at Aven’s page at your suggestion I’m not certain what to think now. There seems to be a small legitimate core of orientation surrounded with a huge heaping helping of “fuck the man”.
If someone truly feels no sexual attraction ever, then they are asexual, fine and well. The important thing to remember is that current estimates place such individuals at about 1 % of the population. Extremely rare. It is not something we should celebrate or encourage. Nor is it something we should pity, or try to fix.
About the first point, I think that’s true. If you don’t go out of your way to mention it, I think most people aren’t going to notice, or they do find it odd that you never talk about dates or a husband or whatever but they either don’t care or figure it would be too rude to ask.
The second part is harder to answer because it’s only my feelings of “it bugs the crap out of me” but I’ll try to explain.
To me someone proclaiming themself “an asexual” (whether it’s someone who has zero sex drive or someone who still wants sex but isn’t having it for whatever reason) is just slapping a label on themself to point out that they’re different rather than trying to enter a dialogue with people. I honestly don’t know why someone would do that unless they were just looking for attention.
I’m a mix of family, friend, job, hobbies, interests, opinions, etc and so (IMO) is everyone else. Asexuality is just part of the mix and I don’t define myself by that any more than I do by any other one thing.