An unrelated coincidence - this supposedly happened years ago, like the 1950’s. Rock Hudson’s homosexuality was pretty much an open secret in Hollywood at the time, but that was back when newspapers respected celebrities’ privacy (and were mostly controlled by the movie studios as well).
I love him! I’ve got all the books and read him on PlanetOut.com whenever I can.
Didn’t read it. Did he come out? I hope so.
I also took notice that Ricky Martin dodged Babwa Wawa’s direct “are you gay?” question. Funny, George Michael did the same thing when he used to get asked point-blank. Makes ya think…
Depends on your definition of “openly gay.” If you mean “known around town but not to the general public” I’d say Alla Nazimova or William Haines. If you mean “known to the general public” then it would probably be someone like Liberace (who was in a movie which makes him an actor). Now if you mean the first actor to come out of his or own accord, the first mainstream one I remember is Tom Hulce (Amadeus). Now if you count non-mainstream people who appeared in the occasional Hollywood film then you might be looking at someone like Holly Woodlawn or Divine.
I wanted to answer the question on gay dating and how quick gays are to have sex.
Esprix is, of course, right that not all gay relationships are created equal, and you’ll find plenty of exceptinos to every rule, but. . .
On average, gay (male) relationships become sexual much quicker, and are much briefer than straight ones. One night stands are much more common in the gay world than the straight world.
And is this any surprise? If the average unattached straight guy found a “bath house” where scads of women went to bathe nude and have sex, most guys would pop in for casual sex on a regular basis (and would find religion, just so they could thank the gods in their prayers every night.)
Now when gay men look for one-night-stands, they may find it easier to find them than straight men. But when you look at gay men looking for long-term relationships, the same rules don’t apply. If you look at the average gay “relationship” (not counting obvious flings), I think you’d find it much closer in length to the average straight relationship.
I’ve seen what claims to be a quotation from Rudolph Valentino’s diary in several places. It runs something like (quoting from memory) Went for a stroll tonight and met a beautiful boy… We went back to his house and made love like tigers until dawn. Now I’m sure I’ve seen this “some place”… I think it was in the Book of Lists.
Dear gay guy,
Hope I’m not covering something already mentioned but the thread is rather long.
I can understand why a person (male or female) would be attracted to a man, but why would they be attracted to a man that looks and acts like a woman? Why not go for the real thing?
“I’ve seen what claims to be a quotation from Rudolph Valentino’s diary in several places. It runs something like (quoting from memory) Went for a stroll tonight and met a beautiful boy… We went back to his house and made love like tigers until dawn. Now I’m sure I’ve seen this “some place”… I think it was in the Book of Lists.”
—Hmmm. I’d be real surprised if this was legit, as not one man has ever come forward to say he was Valentino’s lover, which would have been quite a coup.
Saying so-and-so was or wasn’t gay puts me in a bad position as a film historian, because if I say “there’s no evidence,” it makes me look like I think there was something wrong with it. And gay activists are 100% right when they say “of course there was no evidence—such things were hushed up then!” So all I can say is that PEOPLE WHO KNEW THEM admitted that such people as Alla Nazimova, Ramon Novarro, George Cukor, Lilyan Tashman, Bill Haines, etc., were gay or bi.
But all the claims that, say, Valentino, Barbara Stanwyck, or others may have been gay come from PEOPLE WHO NEVER MET THEM. So all I can say is, “maybe, maybe not; we have no evidence.”
I’ve never met a man who looks and acts like a woman. I may be femme on occasion, but since I’m a man, and I’m acting like myself, obviously I’m acting “like a man”. I’m just not acting butch. (Transgendered issues are a whole other kettle of fish, about which I can discourse if requested.)
Anyway, I am attracted to both butch and femme guys, and if you’re interested, I like femmes because frankly it’s a relief to meet a guy who’s kind of the direct opposite of the kind of guy who thinks he has to constantly prove that he is in fact A Big Macho Stud ™.
Oh, and before you ask. Drag queens do not look or act like women. When was the last time you saw a woman wearing seven-inch heels, four-foot hair, and a skintight dress?
Love is a many-splendored thing. WHo can know why one person finds another person attractive?
Eve
Oh, I don’t get that impression. Saying there’s no evidence in support of something isn’t the same as condemning the thing.
Not necessarily. Thinking to books like “Hollywood Lesbians” and “The Sewing Circle,” there are statements from people who knew, for example, Barbara Stanwyck.
Yeah I think that the traditional sex roles are pretty silly too, but wy not just drop them all together? I think hiding ones genitals and wearing false breasts is little bit more than not acting macho though.
Yes I know my question is a bit silly on some levels (why do people like the color red?), but I was jsut hoping for some aesthetic insight.
Otto—I have to warn you against any of those “interview” books by Boze Hadleigh (“Hollywood Lesbians,” “Hollywood Gays,” etc.). There are very strong indications that he made all those interviews up. Take a peek at the amazon.com reviews, you’ll see what I mean.
Someone awhile back asked who was Hollywood’s first openly gay actor? I’d have to say that didn’t happen till the 1980s, with people like Ian McKellan, Harvey Fierstein and Rupert Everett. Even “out” stars like Bill Haines and Alla Nazimova never said it themselves, just as Rock Hudson and Liberace never came out.
Last time I saw women wearing seven inch heels, four foot hair and a skintight dresses it was a bachelorette party - which begs the question of what you are dressing as when you do the bachelorette thing - I’d always assumed it was “over the top slut” but maybe, in fact, it is “drag queen.”
That quote sounds familiar to me, and so does the book. Still, I’m tempted to put my preconceptions aside and listen to Eve - she seems to know her stuff.
The explanations other have given are grand - you just can’t help what you’re attracted to.
Now, if you’re wondering, “Well, if you like ‘girls,’ then go sleep with one,” you’re ignoring one basic fact - plumbing. Just because someone likes femininity doesn’t mean they’re any less a man.
Confused? I was, until I met Rachel, who taught me that sexual orientation and gender identity are seperate issues, no matter how intertwined they might be. Rachel was born a man, but knew at an early age she gender identified herself as a woman. At the same time, she found herself attracted to women, so her sexual orientation seemed to be homosexual. She went through the same phase you’re thinking right now - if she’s attracted to women as a man, then she’s not homosexual or transgendered, she’s just straight, right? Wrong. Gender identity and sexual orientation are seperate issues. As hard as that was for me to understand, I have to accept that inside she was a woman, and that woman happened to be a lesbian. She now associates her sexual identity with the gay community, because it’s where she most feels at home and comfortable being herself.
So, why would a gay guy like effeminate men? Your guess is as good as mine. And frankly, who cares? As long as they’re happy…
Well, remember, someone who is a transvestite is not the same as someone who is a drag queen. Most drag queens I know do it for fun, or to perform, but do not make a “lifestyle” out of it (i.e., dress up at home). At that point, they’re no longer drag queens, they’re transvestites, and the majority of them are heterosexual men. And, again, their gender identity might be male, or might be female, but it’s a seperate issue.
But drag queens are a gas, and most are quite talented. And honey, get out of the way when the Asian queens get going - they’ll run you down if you’re not careful!
My friend Michael does quite impressive drag, usually just to scare the normals and make an entrance. He did once tell me that had more men approach him and want him to top them when he was in a dress than when he was out as a man. He couldn’t figure it out either, but he’s also not one to look a gift horse in the mouth…
Oh, and personally? Eh, I’m more attracted to a person as a whole rather than what they wear or how butch or flamboyant they are - I’m an equal opportunity slut (although lately I’ve been very attracted to Asian men for some reason, but I’ve dated just about every kind of guy there is). Impress me with some wit, intelligence, a cute face and a heart and I’d consider dinner.