Question: So what does the Homosexual Community really think of us bis?
(Okay, so there’s no single Gay Community, and every gay man has his own opinion, but is there a general concensus, and what is it, and why?)
Your Quadell
Quadell, we like bi’s but typically not for relationships. That is the small consensus amongst my circle of friends. It has something to do with cheating and not being able to share. 
I have several bi friends, and would consider a few of them to be high quality relationship material. 
There may be a repressed bi/closeted behaviour thing where the bi guy is married but fools around a lot. I can’t tell you how many times I have seen that in real life. They tend to be very good in bed if they are not accepting of who they are because (my theory follows) they figure they won’t ever do it again or not for a very long time. The same is true for priests. MMMMM I love priests. I would marry one (in Portland) if I didn’t currently have a bf.
HUGS!
Sqrl
There’s a lot of “homosexism,” if you want to call it that, in the gay community, but I think as sexual minorities in general gain more understanding and acceptance, people are getting more cool about our differences. There’s a lot more “bi pride” out there now than there ever was when I started out as a young guppie gay activist in my college days.
I also have several bi friends, all of whom I cherish, and at least one of whom I occassionally dally with. In fact, I once asked him how his love life was, and he was kind of hemming and hawing, and when I pressed, he said he’d been dating a woman for like 6 months. When I asked him how things were, he was amazed, since all his other gay friends really didn’t want to hear about his relationships with women.
Puh-lease. A dirty story is a dirty story. 
Esprix
Dear Gay Guy,
Okay, I have a question. Hope I can make this semi-coherent. On the net, there’s a phenomenon called “slash,” which is homoerotic writing about TV and movie characters. Most (if not all) of it is written by women. Mostly straight women. (Of which I’m one, honestly…) I have heard that this bothers some people in the gay community, since how can a straight woman write gay erotica…is this true?
(And I apologize if this made NO sense whatsoever…I blame the cold medicine.)
Winner, SDMB’s Biggest FEMALE Chat Addict (Happy, Jophiel?)
“Only two things that’ll soothe my soul - cold beer and remote control.”
My adopted big sister is mostly lesbian, and she writes some kick-ass slash about Harry Kim and Tom Paris from “Voyager.” I don’t see a problem with it, myself, and haven’t heard any of my gay male friends grumbling - after all, as I said before, a dirty story is a dirty story, and most boys are just concerned about getting their rocks off if they read slash or porn, not who wrote it. Personally, I wish more women would write gay porn, because the gay men who write it bore me most of the time. Straight women are more sensitive to my emotional needs, I guess!
I do know of some lesbians who object to straight men writing about lesbian sex, but that’s just because they get it all wrong; plus, some lesbians I know are kind of mysogynistic, so it tends to color their view of the world. You’d have to ask neurotrash-grrrl about her take on that.
Esprix
Thanks, sir! And at the risk of being pushy, does she net-publish her fic? (Hell, I may know her…)
Winner, SDMB’s Biggest FEMALE Chat Addict (Happy, Jophiel?)
“Only two things that’ll soothe my soul - cold beer and remote control.”
Fillet wrote:
The lesbian community has a rather dim view on this, because few, if any of these women take the time to fill out an application and go through our screening process, and simply usurp the title of “lesbian” as if it is their right by birth, instead of going through official channels like they -mmmf-
Sorry 'bout that. Now that I have muzzled the wise-ass side of my personality, I will attempt to answer your question to the best of my ability, which doesn’t really amount to much, because I’m rather isolated from any “lesbian communities” by distance. Speaking for myself, I have no problem with it. Although I think that “deciding” to become a lesbian based on negative experiences with the male gender alone is probably a decision that will not be adhered to for long. I would definitely suspect some previously latent homosexuality or bisexuality on the part of any woman who derived any fulfillment from a lesbian relationship after the novelty wore off, based on my own flings with heterosexuality, which were perfectly fine and good while they lasted, but just not for me. I have also had too many relationships end up in tears due to my lover’s heterosexuality reasserting itself to not have a little cynicism about the whole thing. But if a woman tries it, and it works out, then I say more power to her.
As to the question of lesbian sex as portrayed by male writers, yes, they often get it all wrong. And, yes, there are those who object to it. I freely admit to reading Penthouse Forum, despite the fact that I often find it more amusing than arousing. I know that most, if not all, of the letters aren’t real, anyway. I think it all stems from the masculine tendency to equate “sex” with “penetration”. Let me tell you, it just ain’t so… Occasionally, though, they get it right on the button. Anyhow, I don’t object to it, even when they don’t. If I tried writing about gay sex, Esprix would probably collapse in laughter before he even finished half the story. I suspect that those who do object tend to take a Dworkinesque view of “pornography” (carefully contrasted with “erotica”), in any event.
Heck is where you go when you don’t believe in Gosh.
What’s the deal with all these lesbian questions in “Ask the Gay Guy!”? Aren’t y’all supposed to be separatists? Get your own thread! <eg>
Ok, so how many gays does it take to screw in a light bulb?
On a more serious note, why are gays so prone to use dishonest language? For example, someone who doesn’t like gays is ‘homophobic’. The actual behavior being described is hatred or dislike, not fear. I mean, no one runs around calling racists ‘negrophobic,’ ‘hispanophobic,’ or ‘asiophobic.’ What I find dishonest in the language choice is that it implies that the behavior shown by the person is fear (which is distinct from dislike or hatred, although they can be related) and that it directly implies some form of insanity, which is not neccesarily the case.
Another term is gay-bashing. I’ve heard several gays on this board complain that they were the victims of ‘gay-bashing’ in school, yet it sounds to me more like normal bullying against someone different than anything specifically related to their homosexuality. Should we also add ‘little-guy bashing’ and ‘geek-bashing’ to discuss these forms of violence? IMO there’s a rather large difference between some adults going out specifically to beat up gays (which is what the term originally referred to) and some asshole in high school beating up a bunch of people, some of whom are gay.
Doublespeak like the above terms really irritates me, so I always get annoyed when reading ‘gay discussions’.
Kevin Allegood,
“At least one could get something through Trotsky’s skull.”
- Joseph Michael Bay
3 - one to call the electrician, one to mix the martinis, and one to shriek, “Faaaaaaaaabulous!”
I would refer you to the “What the f**k is wrong with these homophobic bigots?” thread in the Pit where we had a lengthy discussion of the etymology of the word “homophobia.” In essence, homophobia has evolved and no longer just means “fear of homosexuals,” even though that is the technical breakdown of the word, but now it is understood to mean “gayism,” equivalent to racism and sexism. If you prefer, an alternate word sometimes used is “heterosexism.”
If somebody, regardless of age, goes out and beats someone up just because they’re gay or perceived to be so, that’s gay-bashing.
Esprix
But it’s a recent word, I only heard it starting in the early 90’s, so it’s not like the origins are lost in ancient history somewhere. Because it’s so recent, it’s still quite valid to ask why gays were so willing to adopt so dishonest of a choice of language.
Also, the fact that you use the word enough that it enters into the dictionary doesn’t change the fact that ‘homophobia’ dishonestly attempts to portray dislike or hatred of homosexuals as being a result of mental illness, which as I said before is not neccesarily the case.
I take my language seriously enough that I would vote against any proposition that used dishonest language like the word ‘homophobia’.
So if somebody, regardless of age, goes out and beats someone up just because they’re a geek or precieved to be so, that’s geek-bashing? If they beat up someone small, is that small-person-bashing?
It doesn’t seem like gay-bashing is a big deal, then - people get beaten up as kids for a wide variety of reasons, and their precieved homosexuality is just one of many. I honestly no longer take someone seriously who says ‘I have been a victim of gay-bashing’, I mean I have been a victim of poor-coordination-bashing in the past but I don’t run around trying to convince people that there is a big problem with chronic-ataxiaphobia because of it.
IMO, the equivocation between gay-bashing as ‘got beat up in school as a kid’ with gay-bashing as ‘was accosted off of the street and beaten up, getting serious injuries in the process’ is very much like using ‘rape’ to describe both ‘sexually assaulted’ and ‘had sex, then regretted it the next day’ (which, BTW, was the definition used in the survey that claimed 1 out of 3 women had been raped). You end up with people not taking what might be a valid complaint seriously (I know I think ‘I wish he’d stop whining’ when someone goes on about being a victim of gay-bashing, since it probably just means they got in a fight in Junior High).
Kevin Allegood,
“At least one could get something through Trotsky’s skull.”
- Joseph Michael Bay
hi Esperix,
Thank you for the answer. I have a reason for asking, but thats another thread… (no, not me, a family member).
Does people overly emphasizing their “Gayness” (for want of a better word) a-la Ellen and Anne, ever annoy you?
well, at least one person wants to meet me…
http://fathom.org/polldata/pollcheck.adp?poll=dope-page5&question=62
Cheers!!
Donna Bowers, aka Tauna Aelswith - www.shawstudios.com
Another friend put up some slash at www.geocities.com/soho/village/1488
Esprix
For the record (from Merriam-Webster online):
My sincerest apologies on behalf of the gay community for dishonestly portraying a poor, helpless word beyond its intended meaning. :rolleyes:
The bottom line is the definition of the word is now accepted to equate to racism, sexism, anti-Semitism, etc. If the word bothers you that much, use another one. Hell, make one up if you like - maybe if you use it enough, it’ll make it into the dictionary, too. (And I’ll again point you to the other thread for a more detailed discussion.)
Sure. No matter how thin you slice it, it’s still wrong, just like kids getting beat up for being black, or Asian, or a woman, or Jewish, or whatever. Trying to trivialize any kind of hate-motivated action as “what kids do” is fairly insulting.
Keep in mind that as recently as when I was in high school (I graduated in 1986) was when the first kids were coming out before graduating, and in the years since there has been a real surgence of kids coming out as gay, lesbian or bisexual at younger and younger ages - which makes them exponentially more obvious targets. Of course bigger kids will pick on weaker kids with little provocation to do so, but when the intent of the bigger kid is to single someone out because of a specific trait, I’d say there’s a definite problem there.
Your insensitivity amazes me. When I get the chance, I’ll post some hate crimes statistics for you (unless Otto or SqrlCub has them handy).
Esprix
Eh, sometimes, but then I remember I was ten times more out, annoying and in-your-face when I first came out than I am even now (shocking!), and I consider myself pretty tame now, even though some people still consider me “over the top.” I’ll be the first to admit I’m annoying…
Esprix
Wow. What a good place to put in mytwo cents:
I know this guy who is the epitome of the drama fag queen stereotype, and he loves it. He’s a bona fide raging flamer, and he wants everyone to know.
There are two points:
a) He hits on / flirts with girls twice as much as the next straight guy.
b) He can be annoying as hell.
My friends think he’s straight, but I think he’s just an attention craving bisexual.
Second example: a good friend of mine (whom I dated briefly last year) has come out of the closet as a lesbian. Two points for this one:
a) She has told me a couple of times (in extreme drunkenness) that she was pretty sure she was bisexual (as opposed to straight). That seems a far cry with being a lesbian.
b) Her lesbianism mysteriously coincides with the the strong-left pro-gay protest-anything-we-can-find crowd she recently started hanging around with.
c) (what the hell, 3 points) My friend saw her and her girlfriend kissing on the bus. Not a smooch, but kissing. I mean, come on, this is what 15 year olds do when they want everyone on the bus to know they have a girlfriend, not what mature 20 year olds do, regardless of their orientation.
So tell me, Gay Guy, what do you think of these examples, and do you see a lot of ‘false-positive homosexuality’ around?
The Gay Guy wrote:
I remember reading a Usenet message a few years ago, which noted a sea-change in the tenor of Kirk/Spock slash fiction. The author claimed that in the olden days, Kirk was the pitcher and Spock was the catcher, but more recently Spock has tended to be on top and Kirk on the bottom.
Incidentally, when I first heard the term “Star Trek slash fiction,” I thought it referred to slasher stories a la Friday the 13th, Halloween, or The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Only later did I learn that “slash” refers to the slash character ("/") used in the story’s description to separate the two halves of the couple (i.e. Kirk/Spock, Kim/Paris, or Worf/Wesley (ew!)).
Question one:
SqrlCub said:
I understand the first part, but not the second. Do you mean that bis are known for cheating? And “not sharing” in what sense? (This kinda sounds like I’m taking offense, by I’m not, honest; I really just don’t understand.)
neuro-trash grrrl said:
Preach on, sister, but that leads to. . .
Question two:
Is there really a sizable percentage of gay males who don’t have anal sex?
Thanks,
Your Quadell
Sounds like he’s got some serious self-image issues. Once he figures out who he is (if he ever does), regardless of labels, and gets comfortable in his own skin, he’ll settle down.
Lesbianism and women in general seem to have a very different handle on sexual identity and orientation, so I’m going to defer this one to neuro trash grrrl.
Well, like your flaming friend, it sounds like she also might have some self-acceptance/worth/identity/image issues to deal with.
I’ve never met a straight man who goes through a prolonged “gay phase,” but I have known several bisexuals who either teeter back and forth when they were really gay or straight, or say they’re completely gay or straight when they’re really just bi. (NOTE: This is not indicative of all bisexuals. I am not of the belief that bisexuals simply have to “make up their minds.”)
Esprix
I don’t care as long as Harry’s the bottom and I’m the top. {drool}
“On Klingon, we do not ‘fist’ - we ‘head.’”
Esprix