Atheists in Church

Indeed.

My wife is catholic and I have resisted a catholic wedding for this reason even though my mother-in-laws nags me every time she sees me (it was 17 years ago! Let if go already!).

Both my kids were baptised catholic though. I checked in advance with The Bish that I wouldn’t have to say anything wicked. Neither of them have ever received Holy Communion though because they don’t want to. I’d support them if they did.

A church is a public institution. That means anyone can go. The main thing that drove me away from religion is the propensity of religious people to try and exclude all others who do not believe exactly whatever particular crap they do. If there was a Jesus, would he be so eager to exclude non-believers from hearing his message or participating in his songs, etc.?

If I enter a church for a wedding/funeral or to humour my relatives - it is my full right to issue utterances even if they are meaningless to myself.
A person can do the same thing all the time at work - agreeing with bosses, being nice to undeserving customers.

I’m largely in agreement with Skammer. As long as the participant is respectful, I can’t imagine having a problem with it even if it’s just done to appease loved ones. If you think it’s the most heinous thing you’ll ever do, skip it and deal with whatever consequences may arise. At least that’s what I did (to a lesser degree) as an agnostic, which my family thought was one step into hellfire.

Plus if you don’t go, even if your family knows you’re atheist, then in their eyes you are being the dick because you can’t just go along to get along.

I’m an atheist and my wife’s grandfather’s funeral was a full-on Catholic deal with a lot of praying and sitting and standing. I didn’t stand in line to get the Jesus-Cracker and during the prayers I stood there quietly and looked around. And you know, when everyone’s head was down I wasn’t the only one with eyes open scanning the crowd.

More non-believers in church than you might think.

Not that I would do this myself, but I am sure priests realize that that’s just lipservice. Same as “I won’t have sex for fun or outside of marriage,” “I won’t support pro-choice candidates,” and “I’ll accept all of the Vatican’s views.”

There is a HUGE difference between politely participating in or witnessing religious ceremonies, and requesting the church’s assistance in receiving one of its most holy sacraments. And those services can get long - it is nice that they afford a nice little snack near the end! :stuck_out_tongue:

The atheist seeking to get married in a catholic church is being dishonest to both the church and the family members who think something is happening other than what the OP knows is happening. But if he’s good with that, heck, knock yourself out!

We got married in a Lutheran church - in part - to please our families (mine RC, hers L). Of course, down the line we got to hear from my mom how it wasn’t a “real” marriage. Then deal with her requests that our kids get baptized, etc. So if the OP chooses to keep on with the sham for years to come, fine. In my personal experience, now 25 years later, my wife and I would have preferred to have been honest and aboveboard as to what is important to us on what was one of the most significant events in our lives, than in participating in some sham that we actively did not believe in, just in the hopes that it would make some other family members happy.

And each person can certainly decide for themself whether they are being more respectful of their loved ones by being honest, or by pretending to believe in and something their family considers extremely sacred.

I don’t think going though a Catholic wedding ceremony is necessarily immoral. I was much more troubled by the motivation for doing it. “Getting along” with the inlaws and keeping the wife happy is going to blow up on is face one day. A marriage that begins by going through meaningless motions to make others happy is, imo, headed for some trouble. I’m a bit of an expert on this, as I embark on my third marriage. As others have stated, it’s not going to end with the wedding. I can see it now, “we have to have Thanksgivings at my parents house, they’re expecting us.” “We can’t move to St.Louis, I’d be too far from my mother.”

There is? It sounds like asking if the number of angels dancing of the heads of pins is reduced if they happen to be wearing golf shoes.

It is, by the way. Golf cleats are dangerous.

responded to wrong person.

You could be right, after 40 years together it could go bad any minute now.:slight_smile:

I actually was choirmaster for a Catholic parish for some time. I totally enjoy choral music and from where I am, you can really only do choral music within the church setting. However, I did not hide the fact that I was an atheist. Maybe the fact that we were actually a very good choir (winning competitions and such) made them ignore my lack of belief.

My marriage has only lasted 33 years. Who knows when my wife will ask for an annulment, now that the children have all grown up.

This wasn’t my experience, getting married in a Catholic church in the very conservative Arlington, Va. diocese 17 years ago. My wife is a devout Catholic, while I’m not religious, and have never been baptized. I was up-front about the fact that I wasn’t a believer, and wasn’t baptized, and it caused surprisingly few problems. There were a few more forms to fill out, and we had to get permission from the bishop (the no baptism thing seemed more important than any beliefs I had), but everything was on the level, and we weren’t dishonest to anyone.

We didn’t have a wedding mass (what were they going to do, put a tarp over me during communion?), and part of the wedding ceremony was me agreeing aloud to several requirements (not interfering with my wife’s religious practice, raising any children Catholic, I don’t remember what else), but it was a real Catholic wedding (though perhaps not a sacramental wedding). We had to hold our reception at a Serbian Orthodox church hall, though, since my wife’s parish hall was dry.

She’s still devout, I’m still godless, and it’s worked out pretty well.

I did draw the line at being a godfather to my nephew. That would have been lying.

I’m an atheist, and also made some token wedding concessions so that some obligatory sermonizing by the officiant was allowed so our devout easily-confused elderly grandparents would believe that it was “real”. To those that know me or care to ask, it’s clear that I’m not Christian. To those who don’t know me enough to care, they can assume whatever they want and it makes no difference to me.

In my defense, I was very young and hadn’t thought things through before that event. But really - I don’t even want to defend myself. I did a bad thing. If atheists had confession, I would totally confess this.

That is quite different from the guy in the linked thread. Neither he nor his wife are devout believers, yet they have chosen not to acknowledge as much to either the church or their families.

I was surprised when my sister asked me to be godparent to one of her kids. Still think it an odd choice on her part.

But she knew I did not believe, and as I do not respect the church I had no problem saying whatever BS was involved in the ceremony, whether or not that would be “lying” to the church.

So, you are invited to a Catholic wedding/funeral/baptism/first communion/confirmation/whatever. Are you unable to see any distinction between attending, standing or sitting or kneeling as they do (or even just remaining seated) - as opposed to lining up to actively participate in the holy sacrament of communion?

As a nonbeliever, it might seem like no big deal. But to many believers, it is only as big as the difference between eternity in heaven or hell. :stuck_out_tongue:

FWIW, the Catholic Church only requires one godparent to be a Catholic in (reasonably) good standing. I’ve been a godfather twice, and both times the godmother was a heathen or a heretic. :wink:

Whether or not he believes in god, whether or not his wife believes in god, they will have a sacramental marriage in the RC. There is no requirement of belief to be a member of the RC or to have a sacramental marriage in the RC. This is one of the fundamental differences between the RC and the protestant faiths generally (though some stuck with that and some did not) and is poorly understood.

They are both baptized RC, at least one of them was confirmed RC, and that’s it. People who are baptized and/or confirmed in the RC are Catholics, irrespective of any personal beliefs they might have at any given time, because Catholic sacramental theology holds that baptism leaves an indelible character, regardless of any future loss of faith. Accordingly, they could not for example get an annulment later on that ground.

Hans Kung is still a priest after all, despite the current Pope’s certain and personal knowledge of the depth and extent of his…travels in the theological borderlands.