Excellent clarification of a point I had forgotten. Thank you. I forget that I am still a member of the church despite my best efforts to the contrary these past several decades! 
Yeah, well, wait till the protestants remember that His Holiness considers them to be members of the RC despite their best efforts these past several centuries.
back atcha.
I replied to the other thread, so just to repeat and clarify.
My wife and I are both atheist. We got married in church, had both our children baptised and have been godparents.
In all cases, everyone knows that we are atheist, but then, this being the UK pretty much all our family and acquaintances are as well. So no big deal.
We use the church (C of E) because it, and the ceremony are aesthetically pleasing.
That’s it really, When the vicar starts talking about God (which they are apt to do don’t you know) then we just mentally filter the words and sift out the sentiment (which we happen to share).
I couldn’t care less about the church’s feeling towards this. They are free to screen me as much as they like. Were they to ask me flat out if I believe in god I’d say no. Were they then to ban me from taking any part I wouldn’t complain.
Of course they never do.
Hope folk will forgive this hijack on a matter of utmost importance to me. So I was baptized as an infant, and went through communion and confirmation at my parents instruction while in grade school. So now that I reject the RC God, am I heading to hell for eternity unless I repent?
And what would have been the outcome had I been born a heathen in darkest Africa and never exposed to the true Word? Purgatory? Is limbo still official policy? Or will I see him in hell?
If that fucker gets to hang out in purgatory or limbo while I’m roasting away down in hell, all I can say is “Thanks a lot, ma!” 
About once a year I go to church with my Grandma. She knows I’m an atheist but it “makes her happy”. So, last time I went, they had communion and the preacher made a big deal about how you were buying a one-way ticket to hell if you didn’t really believe in Jesus when you gobbled your cracker and grape juice. Grandma was too far away for me to lean over and ask what she wanted me to do…take that one way ticket to hell, or embarrass her in front of all her friends?
I decided to go ahead with communion. If she really cared, she could lunge across the pew and slap the cracker out of my hand. But no…she just sat there smiling and swaying from side to side, obviously not paying the least bit of attention to anything being said. No wonder she’s so damn happy.
See you in hell, baby!
Oh, good. I would hate it if I didn’t know anyone. 
If some of those Christians are to be believed, all the best people are going to hell.
Well, according to the current catechism, it is possible to commit a mortal sin, which unconfessed and unabsolved will send you straight to hell, and certainly apostacy counts as one of those. However, the same catechism says that there is no limit to the mercy of god, and although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offence, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
Of course, the nature of hell is subject to some debate, current thinking is that hell is the absence of god and since you are living in that state now (having cut yourself off from grace) you may not notice.
The doctrine involving Limbo has been eliminated. Purgatory is a process of final purification of all who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified. The current catechism refers to it as a state of being. The notion of its being a place is not doctrinal so some folks think of it that way and some do not.
Your innocent nonbeliever cannot be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him if he seeks god sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men. This divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church.
This is a big consideration for me too. The Catholic Church is happy to have me attend their services and I am happy to be there.
The Boy Scouts, on the other hand, have made it clear that my kind is not welcome there so I refuse to have anything to do with them. Everyone is a winner!
Thank you again - this really made me smile!
I’m sure this is religion 101 which I’ve long forgotten, but how exactly does someone who never hears of God “seek him sincerely”? Especially someone born into a society that only believes in a non-Christian deity.
Interesting post, a question for y’all, what exactly does “godparent” mean to you? I’ve heard that it’s “spiritual guidance” but, even though my wife and I are devout Christians, take our kids to church with us, and chose two couples (one couple for each kid) who are in our church and are jsut as religious as us, if not slightly more so, to be godparents to our kids, none of the people involved here place any bearing on “godparent”, except that they’re usually the only non-relatives that give them birthday presents (which was their choice). I remember both couples when we asked if they’d be godparents, they asked “what do we have to do?” I told them it was mainly a ceremonial thing*, and a recognition for the spiritual role they’ve played in our lives (one of them we often talk religion with and her parents led our marriage class. The other couple he was a shaping force in my spiritual life in my teenage years). According to my baby book, I had godparents (my mom’s brother and sister), but my mom says it was mainly a “should anything happen to us, you live with one of them” kind of thing, I recieved no spiritual instruction from them (even though they’re all church-going Christians) and they were no different than any other aunt and uncle. (I still can’t remember which one of her brothers and sisters it was)
*ceremonial meaning no ceremony involved unlike the quoted post (we go to a Protestant church, we don’t ahve any godparent ceremonies), guess the word I’m looking for is “titular”
I went to church for my sons Communion. I have had to go a few times . At funerals ,I take a walk during the prayers.
When I used to go to church as a kid eating the zombie cracker/bread was my big highlight and I was the happiest at that point in the service too. Reason being I was usually trying to sleep in until the last possible moment and consequently did not eat breakfast. That small morsel represented all the calories I had eaten for the past 12 hours. I would have grabbed a big handful if possible.
Mmmmmm, eucharist.
Its basically just ceremonial bullshit IMO.
I told my sister that I would always “be there” for her son should he need me, as I would for any of her kids. But I felt she and her husband were certainly able to teach their kids what the kids felt they needed to know. And should I ever need to step in and help out their kids, I was not going to do anything for or towards any of them kids that would further any religion.
Fortunately, my sister and BIL have been healthy and financially secure, and Doug (and his siblings) have grown up to be fine young adults. I did teach him how to fight a little when he was younger, and lately have taken him golfing a couple of times. But I would have done that whether or not I were his godparent.
I think Doug got the short end of the stick with me, cause I expect most of his siblings got godparents who occasionally give them presents or a few bucks…
Well, see, it’s a lot like Jiminy Cricket, he has to let his conscience be his guide…No, really, it’s a complicated question because the Church is in a state of flux (okay, it has been for over half a century but the old girl isn’t that flexibl;e) between exclusivism (no salvation outside of the One True Church) and inclusivism (there is goodness and truth outside the OTF, which witnesses the presence of the Holy Spirit there).
Essentially an innocent unbeliever who seeks the good and true using the tools he has available to him is seeking god. The traditional analogy is that a samurai who commits seppaku has comitted a grave wrong, but it probably is not the mortal sin of suicide as the teachings of his faith and culture are an obstacle to his salvation over which he has little control. He sincerely believes he is seeking the good.
This can becoem rather sticky in contemporary times as the analogy tempts us to consider the case of a suicide bomber.
On the day of my daughter’s wedding, I cannot refuse any requests that are asked of me.
Yeah but the parents are going to take it seriously, that’s the problem. If the families care enough to want a Catholic wedding then they are going to care about how the children are raised. It just seems cruel to me to let family who are invested in this to believe that will happen if they know now, before the wedding, that expectations won’t be met. And if they don’t care about disappointing the families then why bother with the wedding now?
That said, maybe they plan to raise nominally Catholic kids – that’s not what I would expect when I read about two atheists getting married but what does it matter what they call themselves an an internet message board. Or maybe kids aren’t in the picture, or it’s all for grandma who is 95 and on her deathbed, in which case I’ll admit I might say to just go thru with it.
ETA: sorry this is sorta more a reply to the other IMHO thread than this one
Thanks Marienee. Tho I really despise and openly mock countless aspects of the faith I was raised in, the one thing I really respect about them is that the have RULES dammit, and if you don’t accept them you are free to find another game.
I personally find many of their explanations and rules laughable and reprehensible, but I respect that they are at least willing to stake out a position, instead of just copping out and saying the ways of the lord are “mysterious.”
It really is unfortunate, tho. After learning suff and then consciously rejecting it, over time you lose track of exactly what it is that you have chosen to reject.
Since there are a lot of anecdotes already, I’ll through in my own experience.
I was atheist for two of my three children’s baptisms. On each occassion I made sure I met with the minister beforehand, and on each occassion they were supportive and understanding. I made those promises I could honestly make, and kept silent during any protestations of faith or promises I wouldn’t make. Everyone was happy.
In my mind, there’s a BIG difference between participating respectfully and honestly in a religious event, and choosing to make a public declaration of faith that one doesn’t have.
I’ll accept that it’s possible to have a RC wedding without being a believer, but unless I hear evidence otherwise, unless you let the priest know, you’re going to be making promises or statements of belief that are false. This may match your own moral code, but it gives atheists in general a bad name.
The big gray area would be where one isn’t in church by choice, and it would be very obvious that one was refusing to take part. Communion / eucharist can be like this in some churches. I would go for the kneeling with my eyes closed and hands clasped as if in rapture rather than partaking - but I can understand someone making a different choice.
Hey - I grinned at the thouht of PZ Myers desecrating the eucharist in retaliation for the discrimination against the schoolkid.