Update: I’m an idiot. Says right in the OP who you used to be.
Hey, SLK. I didn’t know it was you.
Sorry you’re having all those troubles. : /
It’s the child I feel sorry for in this situation. It sounds to me as if she’s being fought over like a bone between two dogs.
Khampelf, the poster formerly known as SLK, please don’t talk like that to your child. No matter what the mother is or is not doing you shouldn’t treat her like you are doing. If she’s as smart as you think she’ll know who’s the good guy and the bad guy. And asking her to keep secrets like that is out and out creepy.
That’s awful that you don’t get any visitation. Is there any hope that will change? I think Emma Grace really needs your love in her life, and phone calls aren’t going to be enough. Hugs to you.
Yep. Thanks.
You’ve convinced me. I’m a piece of shit, and Artaud is right. There’s no reason not to go rob banks and kill people.
Kidding.
But, I’m bearing to hear the truth I’ve spoken twisted by knaves to make traps for fools.
I trust myself where all men doubt me, but make allowance for their doubting too.
(I really do, and now I must wait, and not be tired by waiting, to let time heal, where I couldn’t.)
meanwhile, I’ll just Kipling, keeping on.
Thanks for the reality check. I’m doing my best to not fuck this little girl up with the shit between her mom and I. But I only control my end, and that’s why I’m withdrawing.
It seems it was terrible to try to explain myself.
I’ll try to watch that shit. last word NR,ICMHAHTD
Is that the message you left, or is it what she said to you?
I’ve been thinking on this all day (I know, that’s probably WAY too much investment in the troubles of someone I don’t even know) and I wondered if I was too harsh in my earlier post. I have some personal experience in this area, so I’m not at all objective.
I cannot imagine how hard it would be to know that your daughter’s mother was slagging you and making you out to be some horrible person, and to feel that you have no recourse but to step back. I think that you doing so shows that you do have your child’s best interests at heart most of the time.
But no matter what, this woman is still her mother. Speaking negatively in any way of her to your daughter is going to feel to this girl like an attack on a person that she loves. For what it is worth (maybe not much) it’s a pretty safe bet that when her mother speaks negatively about you it probably feels to her much the same way.
There were times when I was a kid that I did not want to speak to or see my non-custodial parent (Dad) because it was always so hard. He felt that he was justified in his anger towards my mother, and I heard from him a lot of what I’m hearing from you now. I’m an adult now and so able to recognize that my parents both did a lot of shitty things to one another in their marriage and afterwards, and I can process that. I could not do that when I was your daughter’s age, or even 10 years older than that.
I’ve heard it said that you have to love your kids more than you hate your ex. The onus should not be on this child to step through this minefield without getting blown up. She should not ever be made to feel that she has to referee, or take sides.
True, but my reply was more from the POV of someone whose parents went through a nasty divorce and who experienced way, way too much of my parents’ emotions about each other.
Sorry, Khampelf, if I misinterpreted. As others said, I only have what I first read to go on.
From the post you linked to.
Was the daughter,
Was his reply.
Khampelf, this post here is excellent advise. I’m sorry for your situation, I hope things work out better for you in the future.
I didn’t intend to come back here, but. In response to a direct question:
That’s what she said to me. It was an echo of one of her Mom’s tirades. Phone calls are all I have, so she’s attacking that last bastion of communication.
Dude, calm down. If you aren’t getting the results you want from a message board, it is probably because:
A: You didn’t convey what you meant correctly. In this case you want to gently and non-defensively restate things.
B: You are wrong.
I’ve had my butt kicked on this message board when I was looking for sympathy. I did the whole “freak out and defend myself” thing over and over. It happened a few times before I realized that the things they were telling me were hard to hear, but true. I learned that if everyone is saying the same thing, there is likely a reason for that. In the end I actually got some great advice. And really it kind of changed my life.
Only you know if this is an “A” situation or a “B” situation, but you have nothing to gain by becoming angry and defensive. Please realize that nobody is attacking you. This is obviously a difficult time in your life. But there may be a reason why the things people are saying are hitting you so hard.
I was 17 when my parents split (well, when their real trouble started, I was twenty when they actually split. Yup, they managed to drag that shit out for THREE YEARS, during which they had another baby.), and believe me, I completely understand the tug-of-war. I think it may have actually been worse at that age, because each of them seemed to feel that I was “adult” enough to know everything that was going on. Thing is, I didn’t WANT to know everything that was going on. I didn’t WANT to hear my parents say shitty things about each other. The only good thing was that at that age, I was able to **say **to them “Shut up. This is between the two of you. Leave us out of it.”
I’ll mention now that I still have serious issues with my mom, twenty years later. That’s because my mom decided that nothing in the world was more important than her unhappiness. She just quit. She laid on the couch crying and bitching for years, and expected her children to “understand” how hard this was for her. She expected any tiny effort she expended on our behalf to be rewarded with our eternal gratitude, since she was so heroic to say, ask about our day, in the face of such epic betrayal. This wasn’t a huge problem for me or my two-years younger sister, but the two youngest (infant and 10, at the time) are still sort of fucked up.
My dad and I are okay. Because he **did **shut up. But he **didn’t **go away. He has custody today of the youngest, since my mom decided years ago to let him have the kid who failed to save her marriage, so she could move unencumbered to Florida with her new husband.
I’m disgusted by **Khampelf’s **ex’s behavior. But it doesn’t make **Khampelf’s **behavior okay. He asks way too much of her, and then walks away when it gets too hard. Well, fuck that noise. Parenting isn’t a winner-take-all proposition. You don’t get to abandon the city in defeat. She’s a child, and they’re BOTH treating her like the spoils of war.
ETA Khampelf, your post wasn’t there when I started typing. Are you not allowed to physically see your daughter? Do you have any visitation rights at all?
True. AND I DO NOT DO THAT. Trying to explain about the sharing issue (perfectly true) was a considered attempt to help show Emma that Temper Tantrums and Abuse are not legitimate control tactics. My backing down everytime she got shrill and nasty would teach Emma that’s the way to get your way. Scream until you’re appeased. I would have liked some innings given to communication and cooperation.
If you don’t mind.
Holly loads Emma up with her hate, then says, go tell these to your Daddy.
I don’t get a level playing field to start, but I still play fair. Much more fair than she does.
Why am I still here? I’m not getting through.
I really don’t think I am. I’d prefer to see my daughter grow up with respect for her peers, not see them as objects to be manipulated. That there’s more to life than what you want, right now. These are what she learns from her mother. Little things, but important. I don’t talk her mom down. I don’t. She, on the other hand, makes up bad stuff to tell Emma about me. I ‘ran away’ so that Emma wasn’t seeing this hatred and insanity up close every day.
The terms are supervised visitation only. Three days notice, with a court approved supervisor that Holly has a veto over. I tried to arrange such a visit once, and at the last minute, she revoked her acceptance of the supervisor.
She’s fighting with our daughter, I was fighting for our daughter, to try to make a sane human being out her. Holly uses her health issues for control. If you don’t do X, Mommy will have to go back to hospital, and maybe die." This is her schtick, that and scary temper tantrums. I’m trying to show by example there are better ways to go through the world.
Even if you earn the disapprobabion of a few self righeous blue nose churchladies.
Please, don’t remove yourself from her completely if there’s any possible way at all that you can stay in touch. ANYTHING is better than nothing. She may not understand, she may not be able to hear you now unfiltered, but what she CAN do is know that Daddy cared enough to keep trying, even when she was a little shit to him. Please understand how important that will be to her in the future. Daddy didn’t give up on her. Daddy kept trying and stayed in touch. I understand it feels like it would be easier now for her for you to just go away. It isn’t. And it will effect your future relationship with her in a very negative way. I can’t emphasize this enough. I watched my EX pull away from his daughter from a previous marriage for many of the same reasons - it would be easier for her is what he thought. But in her mind, it was something SHE did wrong that made him go away. He left her, from her perspective. He repaired that relationship eventually, but she never forgot that time when Daddy wasn’t there any more and it has permanently effected her and their relationship. He and I are now divorced and I have made sure he stays in touch with the kids no matter what. And I tell them that no matter what the trouble is between Dad and I, we both love them tremendously and they are more important than our problems. Our youngest is 7 and it’s most difficult for him. The girls are older (now 15 and 20) and know the score, but even they need to hear from him regularly.
It is not better for her to think you don’t care enough to call or get in touch with her and that’s just how she’ll interpret it. Even if it’s just a message that says “Daddy loves you and will keep in touch no matter what cause you’re the most important thing in my life”. Please don’t stop telling her that.
Nobody here is defending her mother, you don’t have to convince us how horrible she is. The thing is this is not an excuse for you to act the way you have, you should be striving to be even better because she has a horrible mom, not going for “well at least im not as bad as HER”.
Dont do this. Ever.
Don’t do this. Ever.
Making her feel guilty? trying to turn her against her mom? hanging up on her because she hurt YOUR feelings? come on man, this is utterly ridiculous behavior.
You know, that “World’s Most Put-Upon” attitude isn’t winning you any points here.
What are you trying to “teach” your daughter by *hanging up on her *and then *blaming her mother *for it, again?
Oops! Wrong thread…
That neither she, nor anyone else, has the right to berate and abuse a loved one as a control mechanism.
I see you disagree, bitch, so go get me some coffee if you want to keep your job.
You know what?
Clearly you’re a prince among men, incapable of wrongdoing, and tragically persecuted.
Carry on, then.
Turning her against her mother? Hardly. Pointing out that her Mom is not the high annointed priestess of everything I say is right, and it’s OK to disagree and be your own person.
Discontinuing a call because she’s reading a script of hate penned by her mom? I don’t know why you’d have a problem with that.
I get limited chances to truly communicate, I do what I feel is best for her, and I don’t need your 'thou shalt not’s Mr. Moses.
We will continue to talk on the phone, she will know her Daddy is out here, and that he loves her. But she can’t express any of that, without getting verbal abuse from her mom.
Again, I’m sorry I brought this back here.
A den of jackels is no place to go lick your wounds.