t-keela, it’s usually a bad idea to record someone without their consent. Depending on the locale, you could be opening yourself up to a civil suit, or even face criminal charges. (I have a feeling Tibs knows the score on that one anyway.)
I can totally sympathize with the OP. I had a coworker that sounds like a carbon-copy-- she was just about the most xenophobic person I’d ever met. It’s hard to find precisely the right way to say “You are an unspeakably hateful waste of skin” to someone that you’re obligated to spend eight hours a day next to.
I also grew up in a small town, mine in southwestern Pennsylvania. I don’t think racism is conscious. I do think it’s fairly common, simply because people aren’t exposed to cultures other than their own. I’ve worked side by side with people who probably never travelled more than 30 miles from their home except for an occassional trip to Florida. I even ran into a lot of people who had misconceptions about England when I was growing up.
Tiburon, I was going to tell you to be careful, but I think Esprix’s given you even better advice. I sounds to me like you’re dealing with a woman who genuinely can’t conceive why everyone isn’t just like her and doesn’t want to be just like her. Working from that mindset, if you don’t want to be like her, you must then logically want her to be like you, at least with regard to lesbianism. There are a lot of people out there who genuinely aren’t interested finding out how other people think or anything outside their own world view. If you talk to her, no matter how gently, she might see it as how you won’t let her be herself and you’re imposing your worldview on her when, in her opinion, there’s nothing wrong with hers. If she and everyone else in her hometown grew up with it, how could there be? Remember, not everyone wants to fight ignorance. I’m told if you wear it right and in the right weather, it’s downright comfortable. :rolleyes:
How good is your HR department? I’d trust my last employer’s HR person on this absolutely because she would understand what I was talking about, she has excellent people skills, and I’m sure she’d do it in such a way that she made it clear that it wasn’t a reprimand, just friendly advice from a friend. I’ve known other HR people who would be unhelpful at best. Is there someone in HR you can take this up with casually?
Tiburon, I know how awkward it can be when paradigms collide and how frustrating closed-minded people can be. It sounds like you’ve been handling it just fine so far. Good luck. From what I’ve seen of you here, I’m sure you’ll do the right thing.
Esprix - I’ve said a few times that I’d speak to her with someone else in the room. Thanks for the additional advice - I am, for better or for worse, becoming a pro at exhausting the administrative system.
Larry Mudd - Thank you for the vote of confidence! Definitely won’t be taping the conversation.
cjhoworth - I’m fortunate to have a good friend in HR who isn’t reactionary and is quite understanding. Thank you for the very good advice another vote of confidence - I sincerely appreciate it.
I’m sorry if the term “sort of office” sounded offensive. I really did not remember that you worked in a law office (I do now, and remember your birthday pictures that showed you had the same cubicle furnishings as me), and that is what I was asking.
No, I didn’t miss it, I simply don’t understand it. I hope you don’t hold it against me, but as your reply seems a bit brusque, I think you have misunderstood what I was saying.
I don’t understand why the goal isn’t to punish her. If I said the racist and homophobic things that she did in a professional workplace, I would be on the street, having been fired or “forced to quit” within two weeks. I don’t understand why it should be different for anyone else.
I also don’t feel that any sort of sensitivity training will help people like this. I feel that, in general, hateful people don’t really ever change through life, they simply learn how to hide it better.
Now you probably are upset with me and think I was picking on you, but I wasn’t. It was just that the behaviours in your OP made my blood boil - that is, I can imagine my reaction if my admin assistant did something like that. I would fire her, and in this economy, (relatively) unskilled labour like office admin assistants are very easy to find (we have hundreds of resumes to go through).
I just pulled up those birthday pictures - yes, I think you meant the furnishings immediately outside my office. I’m standing in the doorway of my office, I believe - why must we be subjected to generic office furniture?
Y’know, people like the one you described in the OP aren’t rare Tiburon. They’re just not the ones you hang out with. Getting mad about it is kind of like flailing the ocean.
Well, you’re a big-shot ( ) and get a real office. I only get a triple-sized cubicle, but with office furniture. I think the brand your secretary has is Herman Miller?
[sub]God that’s so sad…I’m branding cubicle furniture…[/sub]
Anyhow, please understand my original post was affected by my being upset at what the person in question said. I was not trying to pick or criticize you in any way; on the contrary, I have a strong admiration for the way you have chosen to handle it. I just don’t know if I could be that good.
Personally I think this would be even worse - she could easily see this as being ganged up on, and then guess where she’s headed? HR. I still vehemently maintain that you should not in any way attempt to address this situation yourself. Period. The rules are different when you’re at work.
Now don’t go getting upset. I was a little sassy. I said I was going to consider everything you had to say - Your post just came off a little Bossy Betty to me; I know your intentions are good and that I really do appreciate.
The term “colored” was not considered offensive in its time (think NAACP). Nigger, niglet, jigaboo, ect. was always gutter talk. One side of my family has roots in the deep south, and to say any of these words to this side was the same as cussing. My mom, who is 76, and grew up partly in the south, not a liberal by any means, would have warned, then punished me for talking like that. She still sometimes uses "colored."It was my dad, from the north, that occasionally let a slur slip.
Slurs have always been impolite, even in the south.
Back to the original post. Has this lady made any comments about Chinese fire drills?
We did have a racist dog when I was a young-un. We lived in a white neighborhood. Most of the garbagemen were black. That dog developed a negative steriotype and would bark at all black folk. Not to worry, it was a run the other way dog if challenged.
Are there other people here concerned about the advice Esprix gave?
Don’t get me wrong – I understand the need to cover one’s behind, to ensure no offense is possible, and so on. I understand that the advice is good on many levels. It’s not the advice itself, but the condition of which it is symptomatic, that furrows my brow.
Isn’t it disturbing that the recommended action for an adult to solve a conflict is to go running to the nearest authority? I always thought that’s what our childhood was for – aren’t we supposed to learn how to solve our own problems by the time we’re all growed up?
Stypticus - If the confict was entirely personal, I can see how running to an authority would be or seem completely overboard.
Behavior is considered differently when at the workplace - it opens up all sorts of new liabilities for the parties involved. Esprix, if I am correct, is encouraging me to be very cautious and avoid those liabilities.
What distinguishes this situation from one in which it would be completely odd for an adult to go to a different person for a solution is simply that this situation involves employment and the workplace.
Must be blenders.