You and czarcasm as well do understand that culpability and wisdom are two separate concepts and some of us can deal with more than once concept at a time in a conversation? Look at the reality around you. You can’t reduce all of it to one variable and think that makes any sense.
It’s like the saying can’t add apples and oranges. Those are different things. Hopefully a conversation that had apples and oranges in it where the properties of both were being discussed wouldn’t be that hard to follow.
You are conflating different things. You know that anything that can be labeled as so-called victim blaming is irrationally taboo. And you think that admonishing the lack of judgment that increases risk is the same as being morally responsible for another person’s, who has full agency we are assuming, criminal actions. In this “heated” and overly emotional environment it’s almost a trap question.
But to answer your question I’m really not sure what I’d say. Depending on the circumstances I may very well note the poor judgement. Look, I’ve been the victim of crimes. Each and every time I ask myself what I could have done a little different to reduce the risk. Not once do I say I deserved to be a victim of that particular crime. These aren’t difficult concepts.
I tell my kids to choose a good password. Does that make me a hacking apologist?
Now obviously, if Ford’s allegations are true, 100% of the blame for the attempted rape is on Kavanaugh.
Can you give us a hint as to what all the behind-the-scenes moderator discussions are indicating? Are y’all close to any more final/formal guidance or rules change?
But that whole discussion is a red herring in the discussion of Kavenough. The only way it is relevant is if you are suggesting that woman that would admit to going to such a party is a woman who is not credible. Are you suggesting that?
If you are not, why is it germane to the topic? If it is not germane, it seems like the only reason to bring it up is as part of a standard response to minimize all accounts of sexual assault and perpetuate the narrative that they aren’t a thing most women need to worry about because they only happen to girls who are very unwise. That’s rape culture.
I’m not even a participant in that thread because of the pointless nature. Knowing the truth will be impossible.
But, discussion on what is permissible to discuss is actually meaningful. I find it problematic when a subset of language is made by fiat or social pressure to be taboo. Because the next step is to deliberately use that label inaccurately to shut down other discussions.
This thread is about how Kavanaugh / rape issues are being moderated in the Elections forum. I do not moderate the Elections forum, and I also do not even read or participate in that forum. I don’t know enough about how the topic is being discussed in that forum and how those discussions are being moderated to have any sort of useful opinion on the topic.
I am one of the ATMB moderators, so my job in this discussion is to keep everyone within the rules of ATMB. Well, mostly in the rules, at least. I’m a bit forgiving of certain behaviors on hot button topics as long as it allows people to get their point across.
The topic is expanding a bit to other forums, which I am ok with as long as we stick to basically the original topic of the OP (Kavanaugh and rape culture). It seems to be mostly affecting GD, Elections, and the Pit. I don’t have enough knowledge of what goes on in those forums with this topic to have a useful opinion on how they should be moderated.
I moderate GQ, and in that forum, issues with rape culture on the board do not seem to be an issue. If it is an issue, please let me know, because I haven’t seen it. If I do see it in GQ, expect it to be moderated with a fairly heavy hand.
I actually agree. What I don’t agree with is the dealing in absolutes that is going on here; this subject is about as far from black and white as it’s possible to get, and saying that something is always, 100% the fault of the assaulter and the victim categorically and absolutely never bears ANY culpability kind of scares me a little bit.
This is a discussion on rape. Please give me a ballpark range of the percentage of blame that could be assigned to the victim. 5%? 20%? Does it correlate to skirt length? Number of sex partners? Time of night she dares leave the home without a chaperone? Please give consideration to your answer and also why the focus on what the victim has done is the very definition of rape culture and why so many of us are disgusted.
I think YOU are mixing up two things. One happens before someone is assaulted or raped. And one is AFTER.
Before? I’m cool with warning about behavior and being in strange locations alone and such. You can do that all day, everyday and I don’t think anyone would think strangely of you.
After? That’s when it becomes something else to think about.
Might we have some sort of indication as to what rape “apology” consists of, as I am genuinely unaware of anyone taking up for or excusing rape in any way.
Further, official sanction of one side of an argument results not in debate or discussion but only in proselytism. How are we supposed to fight ignorance or engage in debate if only one side of an issue can be heard from?
How about, before you post, you consider not whether you would take such an action, but whether you’re happy arguing that men have less self control than dogs?