Bushbots, since I can't ask for your brains, get yer asses in here...

[RedFury]

What the fuck is wrong with you people? I mean, seriously, what the fuck is it with you lot? Why are you perfectly content backing an Administration who thinks nothing of invading countries at their whim while lying through their teeth about their reasons?

You enjoy pointless warfare?

Do you get off on torturing human beings?

Anything to do with butchering children?

Mayhaps you support blatant lies

My country right or wrong? Do you even have a clue about what you’re talking about?

You think you’regonna get rich from this war?

Two guys kissing is worse than this?

Again, just what the fuck is wrong with you braindead people? I’ll consider all excuses up to, and including, the one that makes most sense…you were dropped on your heads as babies and such an unfortunate incidents produces heartless operators…

Still and all, just in case I needed to say it, fuck you all…with a rusty instrument. Sideways even.

Selfish motherfuckers or fools. Willing to works with the latter, I openly loathe the former.

Here’s why: Fear and voting in Baghdad

Here’s hoping/wishing for better times and the end for the need of rants such as my own. Trite – tripe? -no doubt to many of you, but then again, I choose to live by my OwnRules: quit killing, start caring.

Let the derision begin, but fair warning’s in order: you’re not dealing with someone from Peace&Love crowd, no flower-child here. Nonetheless, in a nutshell and as per your own Fearless Mislear’s dare, I am against you. OTOH, no need for grandiosity nor dares. No doubt you can roll right through me. Just sayin’… don’t expect any flowers from moi .

Sure you want to take us on as well? Musn’t forget little grey cells of all calibers, working united, are often the most powerful of weapons.

Beyond arrogance, weapons and the capacity to end us all…what else have you got? Other than lies and misdirection of course… And to think you impeached your last President for a blowjob and are currently defending the most crooked/inept Administration of all…no disconnect there. No siree, Bob, none at all.

[Don King]Only in America[/Don King]

[rjung]

@RedFury

What the fuck is wrong with you people? I mean, seriously, what the fuck is it with you lot?

Now there’s a hole with no bottom.

@RedFury

Why are you perfectly content backing an Administration who thinks nothing of invading countries at their whim while lying through their teeth about their reasons?

Because the Administration is perfectly willing to tell them the sweet comforting bullshit lies they want to hear.

[Sevastopol]

There is a whole other US that leverages its crackpot religious past into present day ideology and discourse.

There is no point confronting these people with evidence & coherent argument. They are listening out for the preaching voice from the pulpit. And Bush is talking to them. Seems they are the majority now.

‘Course, they are welfare dependent, po’ folks. The real US, the money-making place we know and admire: Painted deep blue.

[Starving_Artist]

@RedFury

What the fuck is wrong with you people? I mean, seriously, what the fuck is it with you lot? Why are you perfectly content backing an Administration who thinks nothing of invading countries at their whim while lying through their teeth about their reasons?

Ahem…well, for one thing, we aren’t and it isn’t.

But to answer the question at the heart of your rant, which is to wonder why we can support the war when you can’t, the answer is simple: We’re optimists; you’re pessimists.

You see the glass as half-empty; we see it as half-full.

You focus on what’s bad about the war and the negative things that result from it; we focus on what’s good about the war and the positive things that result from it. And of course, we have the advantage of recognizing that much more good will result from it than bad.

Next question?

[GaWd]

@Starving Artist

But to answer the question at the heart of your rant, which is to wonder why we can support the war when you can’t, the answer is simple: We’re optimists; you’re pessimists.

You see the glass as half-empty; we see it as half-full.

Huh? I sit here in shocked silence. What in the blue blazes are you talking about?

You’re optimists about what? and we’re pessimists about what?

Show me what you have to be optimistic about. Show me what amount of self-delusion you go through on a daily basis backing up your war. There’s nothing wrong with optimism, but yours isn’t a thing of optimism, it’s a thing of delusion and ideology.

Honestly, SA I truly expect more out of you than some fucking pipe dream retort to the topic.

Sam

[MaxTheVool]

@RedFury

Selfish motherfuckers or fools. Willing to works with the latter, I openly loathe the former.

For the record, I know at least a few Bush supporters who are neither.

Also for the record, I don’t think your rant is going to accomplish much.
Also for the record, I sure as hell share the anger, frustration and bewilderment behind it.

[davenportavenger]

@GaWd

Show me what you have to be optimistic about. Show me what amount of self-delusion you go through on a daily basis backing up your war. There’s nothing wrong with optimism, but yours isn’t a thing of optimism, it’s a thing of delusion and ideology.

It’s like Jon Stewart said the other night on the Daily Show–all the conservatives are on The Truman Show. They construct their own reality, making up lies and patting themselves on the back about it. The feedback loop grows tighter and tighter. Eventually they will be choked off by their own hubris. I know this will happen someday, because I’m an optimist.

Of course, they are all saying the same thing about us. Who is right? Who can tell?

[Talon_Karrde]

@Sevastopol

There is a whole other US that leverages its crackpot religious past into present day ideology and discourse.

There is no point confronting these people with evidence & coherent argument. They are listening out for the preaching voice from the pulpit. And Bush is talking to them. Seems they are the majority now.

‘Course, they are welfare dependent, po’ folks. The real US, the money-making place we know and admire: Painted deep blue.

Please don’t do the “they’re not real Americans” thing. Besides, I thought that big corporations are more red than blue.

Most of the red voters are all right people, they just need to have some sense knocked into them.

[Starving_Artist]

@GaWd

Huh? I sit here in shocked silence. What in the blue blazes are you talking about?

You’re optimists about what? and we’re pessimists about what?

Show me what you have to be optimistic about. Show me what amount of self-delusion you go through on a daily basis backing up your war. There’s nothing wrong with optimism, but yours isn’t a thing of optimism, it’s a thing of delusion and ideology.

Honestly, SA I truly expect more out of you than some fucking pipe dream retort to the topic.

Sam

Well, you may be sitting in shocked silence, but your fingers seem to be functioning okay.

And thanks for the compliment, but what I said isn’t a “pipe dream retort.” It’s the most succinct way I know of to describe the differences between the two camps. I see no reason in going into, yet again, the reasons for my support of the war. I’ve explained them over and over, ad infinitum, on these boards. I’m sure you all know why we who support the war support it; and we who support the war know why those of you who don’t, don’t.

But really, when you boil it all down to its essense, the situation is just what I said. You who condemn the war focus on the negatives (as you’ve seen and described them), and we who support the war focus on the positives (as we’ve seen and described them).

[Banquet_Bear]

…this is the article that made me lose patience with the “Bush Bots”

http://www.harpers.org/BaghdadYearZero.html

When the Baghdad fell, Jay Garner had to fight to be allowed to get into the city, his hand picked team was changed at the last minute, he wanted to fly generators into the city-he thought the key to the success of the operation was to get the country back on its feet as soon as possible starting with the capital city first. He didn’t fire the Iraqi troops off the bat like the Pentagon wanted, and withn weeks he was replaced with “Yes” man Paul Bremer.

I watched in disbelief when they showed an embeded reporter wandered around the Ministry of Information just after Baghdad fell-and found a box labeled “England”. I thought-if there was going to be any information about WMD’s, about Sadamm’s human rights abuses-surely they would be found here? The building wasn’t secured? Every man and his dog were in the building, taking, losing or planting information-it was incredible to watch.

So with millions pledged to reconstruction-one would have thought that most of that money would have been spent, well you know, reconstructing the country. Instead, the money was wasted away by “Heritage Foundation” interns, no-bid contracts, and well, nothing really. Perfectly good concrete factories are left idle all over Iraq-the staff unemployed while concrete is imported at 10 times the cost. Hospitals? Well still underfunded-still not enough medicine, and treated with contempt by the US administration, so much that U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson stated:

** remarked that conditions would improve “if they just washed their hands and cleaned the crap off the walls.” **

8.8 Billion dollars is unaccounted for from reconstruction funds-yet do we hear crys for an inquiry and for heads to roll or anything remotely similar from the Bush Bots? And let me ask- the recent Lancet Study has come under heavy criticism because of the “wide range” of results…why no criticism of the Bush administration, the CPA, or the current transitional regime, of not keeping adequate death records? Can anyone tell me how many Iraqi’s died of a heart attack in the last year? How about cancer? Any murder statistics? We knew within a week that over 150 000 people died from the recent Tsunami, yet we still don’t know how many people have died in Iraq since the invasion. Anyone want to hazard a guess why?
And the hypocrisy of the Bush administration and the occupying forces knows no bounds…Saddamm was criticised before the war for his palaces and how they seperated him from the people-now the centre of Baghdad is out of bounds to practically everybody except those with authorisation. And Fallujah? People seem to think the problems started when the four “contractors” were dragged and burned, but the problems started months before when US troops first moved into Fallujah, (and despite criticising Sadamm’s regime for using schools and Mosque’s as army bases, ) first move was to occupy the local school. Next thing, the locals are protesting, the US troops are firing shots (the US troops claim they were fired apon first-but Human Rights Watch found NO evidence to support the claim) sixteen people are dead and seventy wounded. Way to win hearts and minds guys…

I could go on and on and on, but I’ve got to go to work, and there are so many examples of how piss poor the occupation has been-not to mention the pre-war justifications. I cannot believe how stupid the whole thing has been run-and I can’t believe that there are people out there that support this crap. Maybe, just maybe, if the US had focused on getting Iraq back up and running from the get go, things may not have gotten this bad. But as Banquet Bear’s Theory of Chaos predicts, the less stable the system is at the start of its life cycle, the more likely it is to head towards clusterfug at the end of its run…the disaster was entirely predictable, just people chose not to see it…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25914-2004Jul29.html
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5763483/
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/iraqfalluja/Iraqfalluja.htm#P50_591

[Sevastopol]

Exhibit 1: See above.

[Desmostylus]

@Starving Artist

…and we who support the war focus on the positives (as we’ve seen and described them).

Um, what exactly would those positives be?

[davenportavenger]

@Desmostylus

Um, what exactly would those positives be?

Well, they deposed Saddam Hussein. You know, Saddam Hussein, the torturer of civilians?

[elucidator]

@Starving Artist

…You see the glass as half-empty; we see it as half-full…

Yes. But it’s blood.

[Banquet_Bear]

@Starving Artist

Well, you may be sitting in shocked silence, but your fingers seem to be functioning okay.

And thanks for the compliment, but what I said isn’t a “pipe dream retort.” It’s the most succinct way I know of to describe the differences between the two camps. I see no reason in going into, yet again, the reasons for my support of the war. I’ve explained them over and over, ad infinitum, on these boards. I’m sure you all know why we who support the war support it; and we who support the war know why those of you who don’t, don’t.

But really, when you boil it all down to its essense, the situation is just what I said. You who condemn the war focus on the negatives (as you’ve seen and described them), and we who support the war focus on the positives (as we’ve seen and described them).

…you have, many times explained your reasons for supporting the war. Can you explain your support for the way the occupation has been run ? Was it really the best the United States could do for Iraq?

[Desmostylus]

@continuity eror

Well, they deposed Saddam Hussein. You know, Saddam Hussein, the torturer of civilians?

Why is that such a big deal? The torture didn’t stop. :dubious:

[GaWd]

@Starving Artist

Well, you may be sitting in shocked silence, but your fingers seem to be functioning okay.

Should I have mentioned how long my stunned silence lasted to satisfy your needs?

[/quote]
And thanks for the compliment
[/quote]

It definitely wasn’t a compliment, friend.

[/quote]
but what I said isn’t a “pipe dream retort.” It’s the most succinct way I know of to describe the differences between the two camps.
[/quote]

As you see it and I can tell you in all honesty that your conclusions are wholly incorrect.

I see no reason in going into, yet again, the reasons for my support of the war. I’ve explained them over and over, ad infinitum, on these boards. I’m sure you all know why we who support the war support it; and we who support the war know why those of you who don’t, don’t.

I didn’t ask you why you supported the war. In fact, I care less than two shits why you support the war. You support of the war not the same as, as I asked, what are you optimistic about, and what are we pessimistic about?

Try to understand that optimism is not self-delusion. Optimism is setting up for a picnic and, upon seeing clouds forming in the distance, saying “I’m confident that those clouds are moving away from us”. Delusion is seeing those clouds forming a twister and saying “I think we’ll wait this one out till it passes over us”.

Much is the same about the war. Optimism is saying “I’m confident that we can get in and out with the least amount of life-both ours and theirs being lost”. Delusion is seeing torture scandals and mis- and dis-information scandals perpetrated by our government upon us, a systematic loss of life-both enemy and friendly, a shrinking Iraqi police force losing countless higher-ups, increasing suicide bombings eliminating our puppet government and US forces, and many dozens more of our servicemen killed and maimed and saying "Mission Accomplished! We’ll be voting any day now and we will have free elections country-wide! All Iraqis will truly be free and without fear!

But really, when you boil it all down to its essense, the situation is just what I said. You who condemn the war focus on the negatives (as you’ve seen and described them), and we who support the war focus on the positives (as we’ve seen and described them).

As I have just described above, no, it is not. What you see as “pessimism”(notice the quotes this time, indicating the sheer bullshitness of the word), is simply reality. It is the reality of war in general, and the reality of this poorly executed war by our inept administration with a cross to bear.

THe most truly “pessimistic” thing I can say about it all is that there is a large portion of my countrymen which feel as misguided as you do. Perhaps they think it is the pessimism/optimism struggle, but I doubt many try to put a lacquer over their true feelings and justify the truth away as you do.

Sam

[Lord_Ashtar]

I like the automatic ad hominem that comes built in with the OP. Anyone who argues against any of RedFury’s assertions is labeled a Bushbot. Nice.

[danceswithcats]

Do you folks have erectile dysfunction syndrome if a new bleat isn’t posted on a daily basis? You don’t like how things are going. OK. Got it. Opinion received. Your next at-bat is 2008, so give it a rest, already. I’m not delighted either, but I don’t masturbate via my keyboard every other day. :rolleyes:

[Banquet_Bear]

@danceswithcats

Do you folks have erectile dysfunction syndrome if a new bleat isn’t posted on a daily basis? You don’t like how things are going. OK. Got it. Opinion received. Your next at-bat is 2008, so give it a rest, already. I’m not delighted either, but I don’t masturbate via my keyboard every other day. :rolleyes:

…oddly enough, I make very, very few posts on the situation in Iraq-I don’t masturbate via my keyboard every other day, and I don’t have an erectile dysfunction. Can I ask you-what is your opinion on the state of the occupation? What are your opinions on the CPA using Heritage Foundation interns found off the internet to run Baghdad while the British used experienced diplomats instead? What are your thoughts on the missing $8.8 billion dollars? How long do you think its acceptable for a country to go without procedures for recording deaths? What about not securing the Ministry of Information immediately after taking over the country? Was the way the occupation handled the best the United States could do?