By whom?
We’ve got to set the country back on a saner course. POTUS can’t do it alone; we need control of the Senate and that’s more likely with Biden as standard-bearer.
Few of us are getting our 1st choice for nominee. Prepare to push a progressive agenda no matter who is President. As I’ve explained before, more progress might occur with a moderate President than with a radical. Biden will need a youngish V.P.; let’s hope he picks a progressive — Stacey Abrams?
Who demonized Bernie’s supporters and what were the charges?
The one complaint I’ve heard is that Bernie supporters might not vote D in November. And this charge is so insulting that Bernie supporters might respond by … not voting D in November? :smack:
I think the question of whether female candidates were subject to a presumption that they couldn’t win is a good one to ask. I don’t know that this is the case, but there’s a lot more there there than the popular contention that “my favored candidate is subject to a press blackout by those big meanies known as journalists!” which is a line espoused by several campaigns.
After seeing what’s happened in this country in national elections over the last couple of decades I suppose anything’s possible. But I’m not getting my hopes up. Joe Biden has absolutely NO message to sell to the U.S. electorate AND he’s about as exciting as soggy toilet paper (sound familiar?). Add to that the fact that incumbent presidents don’t lose in their attempt for a 2nd term very often and. . .as much I’ll hate to see it, I’m expecting another four years of the Mango Moron in the W.H.
Only because I live in a small Wisconsin city, where votes really matter, and I have neighbors whom will vote for Biden in November, but if the socialist Bernie is the nominee, they will stay home (and a few will vote for Trump).
I would love to have Bernie (or someone with his priorities) be president. What I want DOESN’T MATTER.
Almost everyone on MSNBC would, personally, love to have Bernie (or someone with his priorities) be president. What they want DOESN’T MATTER.
What matters is that they (and I) help to make sure Bernie isn’t the nominee, BECAUSE ALL THAT MATTERS I WHETHER MY NEIGHBORS VOTE FOR TRUMP
IN NOVEMBER, OR NOT.
Not me. Probably not you. Probably not your neighbors (correct me if I’m wrong about your location). MY neighbors, and about two hundred thousand people like them, AND NO ONE ELSE.
That’s how our system works. It sucks, but THAT’S HOW IT WORKS.
I have no real problem with Bernie. His failure to get the youth vote to turn out in sufficient numbers for him to win on Super Tuesday makes me seriously doubt that he’d be the best candidate for the general election, but I also don’t buy that he would have doomed us to four more years of Trump. Fifty-fifty, perhaps, with the possibility of significant movement in either direction depending on what happens during the general election campaign. I agree with him on many things, probably more than I agree with Joe Biden on. I like Joe, too, but he wouldn’t have been my top pick.
All that said, I severely disagree that Bernie Sanders was treated unfairly. The DNC changed the rules explicitly to accommodate him after 2016 (reporting initial and final popular vote in caucuses instead of only delegate count to optimize his chances of getting a boost out of Iowa, dramatically reducing the impact of superdelegates, and probably other rules changes I’m forgetting). From what I see in your post, your main complaint seems to be with MSNBC. This is not a wing of the Democratic party: it is a news channel. Newscasters are entitled to their opinions, the same as you. If you don’t like what they say, hold THEM accountable, not the Democratic party.
Did the party coalesce around Joe Biden? Yes, but only after rank-and-file black voters in South Carolina made it clear that he was their pick. Notice that major party leaders Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, etc. have all refrained from endorsing anyone, and many others held back until very recently, in the interest of letting the primary play itself out with as little interference as possible. This is how primaries are supposed to work. This is how the machinery is set up. If anything, the party went out of their way to make sure Sanders had a fair shot.
Political parties are not an official part of government. The founding fathers were actually concerned and disturbed by the idea that they might form, and shift the functioning of democracy away from their original vision (for the record, they absolutely have, though it happened almost immediately after the nation’s founding, not recently). As such, primaries are not an official government function, but rather a process conducted by the parties, for the parties. The aim is to pick a nominee who is best to serve the interests of the party. Obviously, given the huge impact parties have, it IS fair and good for them to keep primaries as democratic as possible, but at the same time they really have no obligation to do so if it doesn’t suit them. Bernie got a fair shake, and he didn’t manage to win. Neither did Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. and you don’t hear their supporters whining about it, or at least not nearly as much.
As for a positive argument to Bernie voters in favor of Joe Biden, perhaps consider that Bernie Sanders, as a senator who caucuses with the Democrats, would actually have a voice in a Biden administration, especially if Democrats win the senate. Joe Biden winning would also mean a Democrat VP, which makes winning the senate much more likely, as well. How many laws has Sanders had the opportunity to pass under Trump? How many do you think he can get through if Trump gets another four years and Republicans keep the senate majority? Whatever his personal positions, Joe Biden will be at least moderately responsive to people like Sanders and Warren and AOC. If Sanders voters turn out and vote more progressives into congress, giving them a larger bloc and more leverage, then even moreso. If a Green New Deal, or a bill for student loan forgiveness, or for universal healthcare, comes across Biden’s desk, he’ll almost certainly sign it into law. What do you think Trump would do, given that there’s not a snowball’s chance in hell of Democrats holding a large enough majority to override a veto?
Not directed at you, but people who are voting green are doing so out of spite. They’re angry. I’ve argued before that this country needs a little more rage, but it can’t be blind rage; it has to be focused on the right targets. The Republicans and Trump are very close to rigging the judiciary to the point that even if a Bernie-like candidate comes around in 4 years, he’d have the entire judiciary to work through even if he somehow won the race. I’d urge your friends to think about who gains from this. Nobody.
But as much as I genuinely do respect and appreciate Sanders the senator, this is why I find his candidacies for presidency problematic, going back to 2015-16. He’s a rage candidate, but he attracts blind rage more than the more focused type of outrage that we really need and would benefit from.
My God, what more do you want? He essentially won the first three races. He had opportunities. He just couldn’t close, and the reason he couldn’t was due to the fact that he has repeatedly failed to show any interest in running anything other than a protest campaign. Voters want results, and the most important result they want is someone who can appeal to a wider audience. Bernie simply doesn’t. It’s pretty simple: if you can’t win the party nomination, logically, it follows that you’re going to have a more challenging time against the incumbent from the other party. What some of voters seem to be advocating is the very thing they’re “protesting”: they have concluded without any evidence whatsoever that Bernie would just somehow be a better match-up against Trump, and they want the DNC to install Bernie. Irony, much?
Voting is a matter of civic duty, and more often than not, it really is a choice between the lesser of two evils, not the ideal candidate. Always choose the lesser of two evils, or accept that you will certainly get the greater evil for another 4 years. It’s that simple.
No point talking about then.
Who. When in doubt, ‘Who.’ Who, goldarn it.
Write ‘who’ when ‘whom’ is more correct, and nobody will notice. Do the reverse, however, and you come across as thinking you’re better than your hard-working semi-literate red-neck neighbors, and are trying to sound like left-wing cosmopolitan elite. 
That does it! :mad: I’m voting for Trump.
M4A isn’t happening even if Bernie wins. It’s really not a good reason to vote for him.
Heh. Typos and autocorrects have no boundaries.
Recent political cartoon:
Two donkeys are sitting at a bar, looking shocked. Nearby is a Bernie Sanders supporter. The Sanders supporter is saying, ‘I’m not voting for your nominee if it’s not Bernie… And it’ll be your fault Trump remains president.’
Going back to the original question, can Biden beat Trump? I think that, under the right circumstances, he can. Will he? It’s going to be tough, but if Bernie’s the nominee, I think retaking the White House would be even tougher.
I have my own concerns about Biden, and not just his age and meandering speeches. It’s fair to question whether he’d be an effective president, and I think reporters and voters have a right to start asking him some hard questions, like what he does if McConnell filibusters key legislation. What does he do if the SCOTUS strikes down the ACA, thereby rendering any expansion of said legislation moot? These are fair questions to ask, and as much as I support Biden, he’s not even been asked these questions let alone answered them.
I’m not a Biden fanboy, but I call it like I see it, and the country is not nearly as sold on Bernie’s ideas as his supporters want them to be. I mean I get it - if you’re 28 and just coming out of a grad program underemployed and burdened with six figure debt in a world that is increasingly being automated, you’re scared shitless, and angry at the same time. I get that. I still think that Bernie’s voters will matter to Biden; they don’t mean shit to Trump - that’s the point, and that’s what I would tell Sanders supporters who are toying with the idea of spiting Biden should he get elected. They’d ultimately be spiting themselves.
Here’s what you tell disappointed Bernie Sanders supporters.
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Regardless of what your feelings are about the other candidates, look at your feelings about Donald Trump. And then take the chance to vote him out of office.
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Remind them that a lot of disappointed supporters of other candidates were willing to vote for Sanders when he was the front runner and looked like he would be the nominee.
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If you feel both parties are broken, then take this chance to send a warning to them. Vote to remove somebody who has failed in order to remind other politicians, Democrats and Republicans, that they will be removed from office if they do a bad job.
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Think about the future of the progressive movement. If young people decide to sit out this election, either by not voting or by voting for some third party, then both parties will ignore them. The only way you will affect the political process is if you participate in it.
Nicely put, Little Nemo. You are a more patient person than I am, and I’ll use your post as a template.
Little Nemo: Sharing.
I’d also add, ‘Enough with the conspiracies.’ Face reality. The DNC or ‘corporate media establishment’ or anyone isn’t conspiring to take down Sanders.
The key to beating Trump is coming up with an effective response to his usual playbook, but nobody has done it yet. In fact, every opponent of his plays right into it. You can read his book “The Art of the Deal” to see how it is done. Trump says something outlandish, trolls the shit out of people, gets outsized media coverage for it, rolls back his statement claiming that the media distorted what he said and takes a reasonable position. His opponents, blinded by their hate of him, take a harsher position against him which lets him win by default as now being the mainstream.
Take illegal immigration as one example. What does Average Joe Undecided Voter think about illegal immigration? Well, first, he’s against it. He understands that as a sovereign country we have to protect our borders and that there has to be some immigration controls. He doesn’t like having a bunch of illegal aliens in his town, but does admire the work ethic and the sense of family that those people have, working hard for peanuts outside of Home Depot, for example. He certainly feels bad about those who were brought here as children and doesn’t support rounding them up. In short, he is very much against it, but it is not something he is ready to start neighborhood sweeps over. “Something” needs done, but he doesn’t really think about what that is. That’s the voter you are after.
In 2015, that voter is very much in line with the Democratic Party’s position. Every politician of any stripe has a stated position on immigration, but I’ll be damned if I remember what they were. Then Trump, at the time just a regular politician, comes along and says that a wall has to be built and that the Mexicans coming here are rapists, murderers, and drug dealers. That’s the trolling part, but everyone bites on it.
Days and weeks of media coverage ensue where Trump then says that he was (and if you look at his words he was) only saying that some, some of these people are bad and that the overwhelming majority are good people who just want a better life for themselves.
At that point, the Dems should have said something along the lines of, well, after hearing Mr. Trump’s clarifying remarks, it is clear that he believes what everyone else does, so why are we all paying attention to him?
But nope, they continue to feed his media narrative and emphasize his trolling. They cannot agree with his rather obvious and mundane statement. If the attention starts to die down, Trump will stoke the flames: deport all 11 million illegals (eventually, if they are caught); the wall just got ten feet higher (and btw it won’t be a wall in a sense, it will be fencing where needed and not in places impractical to build).
They have to respond to his name calling and the “woke” environment and their hatred of Trump won’t permit them to allow his racial characterizations to go unchallenged. They keep feeding him. And they want to challenge him so much that they take extreme positions so as not to be anything like Trump: eliminate ICE, have sanctuary cites, free health care for illegals, no more deportations
Pre-Trump you had the Average Voter on your side; now he is on Trump’s side. And you allowed a neophyte politician to control the media narrative on the issue.
Rinse and repeat with every other issue. Trump does this continuously, and the vile hatred of him, as shown on this board, is all part of his plan. Let me repeat, the name calling and the hatred of him by those on this board, who were not voting for him in any event, is part of his plan.
Once the left understands that, then they can beat him.
You want to help stop that?
Show them this, and tell them to replace “Nader” with “Green Party” in the last panel.
Seems to me the people being trolled by Trump’s antics aren’t his critics, but his supporters. They are the ones actually listening to his bullshit.