Who asked you to? shrug You’re the one that called ne a feminist. I don’t have a problem with that…I am. Frothing? Eh. Not so much. Just because I’m as unmoving in my beliefs as you are in yours doesn’t make me fringe. So, unless you’re willing to be stuck with that label, I wouldn’t go tagging it on women who disagree with you about feminism and all its facets. 
My experience with catsix in a few rape threads is not that she hates women, but is that she hates feminists, to the extent of a pretty strong implication of intellectual dishonesty to anyone (my own Y chromozome possessing self included, I felt) who dared to agree with such ‘feminist’ views. The concentration on feminists such as Dworkin and MacKinnon while ignoring whole swathes of writers and thinkers (such as Ruth Bader Ginsburg, for example), who see the motivation for feminism as ensuring women possess equal opportunities and receive equal rewards for equal work, shows the bias that she brings to the table over this.
Now, I think she is flat out wrong on this, but I think translating it to hatred of all women is pushing it too far.
catsix and I disagree A LOT. Before I actually started talking and interacting with her, I admit that there were quite a few posts of hers that made me think she was crazy.
However, in interacting with her, I have come to realize that catsix is not a shrill hater of all women and she does not hate transsexuals. She hates KellyM, not transsexuals in general. Thank you. 
Generally, when someone is insulting someone else, they pick out the issues that person is sensitive to. If I was pissed off enough at a fat person, I might call them a “fat sack of shit”, but that doesn’t reflect an overall hatred of fat people. It’s just the easiest tool to insult them with. Since this thread has hardly been free of insults, I don’t see how catsix can be held particularly accountable.
But then, since it’s been established by you guys that catsix hates all women, doesn’t that mean she holds you in particularly high esteem if she doesn’t consider your transitioning to be valid?
Of course, nothing she’s said here confirms your assertions anyway.
I certainly can’t muster up much sympathy for the Andrea Dworkins of the world myself - interestingly, Dworkin’s written that gay male porn (which I’ll acknowledge as one of my occasional pastimes) is also a form of sexual assault upon women. I’m not sure why either. If you guys piling on catsix consider Dworkin to be a brave fighter for women’s rights, it’s your perogative. Personally, I can’t support the kind of “feminism” that considers women incapable of making their own decisions about their lives, or the kind of shrieking harpies who use the excuse of “feminism” to wage a gender war.
I do support the more mainstream kind of feminism. But since that kind has been invisible in the media for about 40 years, and since they took a vacation from feminist academic circles during the 1970s and 80s, I can’t really fault anyone who’s developed a view of feminism that doesn’t gibe with my own beliefs. It’d be hard not to.
Yep. It’s certainly ironic that KellyM assumes the role of judge over catsix, since I imagine she wouldn’t react warmly to some paternalistic person asserting that authority over her.
Again, unless my reading comprehension skills have disappeared completely, this is a strawman.
The problem is that the ultra-extremists like Dworkin and MacKinnon were allowed to set the feminist agenda for twenty years or so. If the anti-abortion groups were led by the fanatics who murder doctors, rather than condemning them, I’d be pretty unwilling to give any of them the time of day. Personally, I think the great harm perpetrated by the extremists is the misdirection they’ve achieved - by teaming up with the fundies in the Holy War Against Porn, they’ve prevented real progress and done a great job of discrediting a movement that, again, I agree with.
Especially if the fringy weirdos are the ones setting the intellectual direction of the movement, as they were in the feminist movement until quite recently.
Hey, I don’t share catsix’s views on feminism, as I’ve stated. But I can muster up some sympathy given some of the excesses (and some of the sheer insanity) that “feminists” have dedicated themselves to. Either way, it doesn’t indicate that catsix hates all transgendered people, and it’s a falsehood to claim she does. KellyM was, at very least, extremely insulting to catsix, and it astonishes me that you guys won’t acknowledge that.
That seems to be what they’re doing. Man, you people don’t have to agree with catsix. You don’t have to like her. But Christ, what do you stand to gain by doing this? Some people have different views than you. Hopefully, one day, y’all will learn to live with that.
It should be pointed out that I never suggested that catsix seek therapy in lieu of losing weight. That’s a pure fiction.
I merely suggested that she might benefit from talking to a counselor about her body issues.
Of course, I should not expect someone who hates me to accurately represent what I say.
You are not a psychiatrist (well, perhaps you are. But you are not her psychiatrist.) You don’t have the capacity to diagnose “body image issues” over the internet, and you don’t have the authority to judge whether catsix’s decisions about her own body are valid or not. But by chalking her decision to lose weight up to body image issues, you have claimed that authority. I have a problem with the notion that catsix shouldn’t be allowed to do what she chooses with her body.
So you allege that “seek therapy” does not equal “talking to a counselor”. :dubious:
Personally, I would pritnear use the two phrases interchangeably.
Oh FFS. Plenty of people suggest to other Dopers that they seek counseling. Not everyone flies off the handle when the suggestion is made to them.
So waitaminute. I am to understand that by suggesting that someone see a counselor (or seek therapy, which means the damn same thing), I am restricting that person’s free will and judging the validity of their own decisions? I never realized that the phrase “Hey, I think you need to talk to someone about that” was so powerful. It’s not like I called the Psycho Police and had her rounded up or anything.
And it’s not like she sued you for false imprisonment either. She returned an insulting suggestion with an even more insulting response. That’s how things work.
No, I would imagine that someone who hates you might not accurately represent what you say. OTOH, you stated earlier in this thread:
Now catsix says that she didn’t say this, and you’ve ignore at least one request for a cite already. Do you have one, or is this another example of “someone who hates someone else not accurately representing what they said”? :dubious:
There are so many differing definitions of feminism, that it isn’t surprising that so much disagreement occurs. I personally, do not agree with the definition you quoted, but that is a topic for a different thread, so I won’t continue the feminism hijack any further.
If so, reread your own post #85. You said that you never suggested one, but merely suggested the other, and above state them to mean the same.
:smack: 
WTF are you really trying say that you said, and what are you saying that you didn’t say?
catsix’s hatred of feminism or feminists (whichever or both) seems so categorical that I think bringing up one like that - that’s the one I use, too - makes sense. I’m not sure catsix has ever explained what feminism means to her, much less why it tickets her off, I just know she uses a lot of Rush-style comments in complaining about it.
Well, damn. Here I type up a nice and properly reasoned response to that post (summary: disagreement, from the non-feminist side) and you have to go and remind me not further a hijack before I can post it :).
And it’s not her right to categorically hate feminism? What’s your point here? She has an opinion, it differs mightily from yours, and you wish to drag her through the streets for having the audacity to disagree with you? Of course she seems unreasonable to you. People who disagree with us always seem unreasonable, just like those who drive faster than us are always maniacs.
What she said was:
Italics mine.
I believe you’re focusing on “I never suggested that catsix seek therapy” and ignoring the rest of the sentence. KellyM could certainly suggest that catsix seek therapy without suggesting that she do this instead of losing weight. I haven’t seen her deny telling catsix to get therapy/see a counselor/whatever, she’s just denied the “in lieu of losing weight” bit.
The ‘suggestion’ was to get therapy and learn to accept my body as is.
To me that meant ‘Don’t lose weight, just learn to like being fat.’
The difference that I see here is that, unlike someone claiming to be transgendered, if someone is complaining about their weight, it is possible (although certainly not foolproof) to tell if their concern has merit just by looking at them. If Calista Flockhart is complaining that she’s too fat, you don’t need to be a psychiatrist to tell that her problems are not in her thighs. catsix posted some pics of herself in one of the MPSIMS picture threads a while back. As I recall, she didn’t seem to be unhealthily over-weight in those. Of course, maybe she’s gained weight since then, or maybe the pictures were not a good representation of her body type. Or maybe I’m completely confusing her with someone else. I just don’t think the two situations are entirely comprable.
She might be referring to catsix’s posts in this monster of a thread. catsix’s first post is here, and while I don’t think she comes across as hating transsexuals, she sure doesn’t come across as terribly undertanding. Or stable, really.
Or he just wants to, y’know, debate her. It is sort of what we’re here to do, after all.
Of course she’s free to have her own opinion about feminism. And likewise, I’m free to tell her that her opinion is full of shit, since most of her claims about feminists are hyperbole, if not outright lies.