I don’t mind the special treatment. In fact, I love it. So just ignore these ungrateful wenches and open the door for me.
As to you, LaurAnge…
You have since sorta cleared up your point about women not receiving “preferential treatment” (though I honestly do not believe you could possibly be any more wrong), but your first post strongly implied that men hold doors open for women because they think women are weak. IME, not even fucking close. They hold the door open because either (a) they are nice or (b) I am a woman, and more power to 'em all, I say. If a man wants to show me respect, I’m there.
And I do hold doors open for anyone who’s approaching, and I have, at times, been known to scurry ahead of a mom pushing a stroller or an old woman with a walker. I’m sure I’m guilty of some cultural crime, but oh the fuck well. Like I give a shit.
Do people who hold the door for everybody bother you, or just guys holding doors for chivalry:
::runs from room::
Hey, if it pisses you off, I’m sorry to hear it. I’m glad that you have the class not to make a big stink about it though.
You never know though. Picture a scenario: There’s this poor schmuck of a guy, he’s a total screwup and he’s done everything wrong his whole life. He tries hard, but nobody appreciates him. Let’s say one day is particularly bad. Everybody yells at him, and he’s incompetant and depressed about it. Suddenly he spies you walking towards a door.
“A-HA!” He thinks “Here’s my chance to do something right.”
Moving in his clumsy oafish way this poor loser scrambles ahead of you, opens the door and beams at you like the wide eyed fool he is. You of course, were actually slowed down and mildly inconvenienced by this clumsy gallantry, but nevertheless you give him a brief flicker of a smile and a mumbled thank you before walk seething through the door.
THe poor fool of course considers himself with the air of a kind and generous individual who has just done great good.
He holds his head high, and with the satisfaction of a job well done who goes about his business with newfound dedication. He is no longer depressed.
You, my poor inconvenienced and seething friend have made this guy’s day!
(If this story seems familiar it’s probably because that schmuck and myself bear more than a passing resemblance.)
I think of it like this. On the off chance that something like this is the case with the door holdee, you would absolutely devastate and destroy them if you were rude.
Maybe that will help next time. If not just consider door-holding as suitable employment for the handicapped.
<Firing the 1st shot of what really s/b a GD> Umm, actually, after you figure in stuff like seniority, education, etc, women get paid (within statistical margin of error) the same as men, in the same jobs.
V V- I thought you were kidding, but it was such a rude think to say, even so.
There have been many cases in industrial tribunals here in the UK where women with ‘equal seniority, education, etc,’ were being paid less than men doing the same job. (Sometimes the women had more experience etc). It takes a legal case to make the company pay the same rate.
Actually I think you’re a brave person. :eek: Your post implies that:
-women have less seniority
women have less education
less pay for women is due to a ‘statistical margin of error’
I’ll challenge you on the last one - how can a ‘statistical margin of error’ apply to pay rates? It’s not like a poll of 0.01% of voters to see if Gore/Bush is winning - woman A is paid less than man B for the same job.
Well, I was being americanocentric- ie I was talking about the USA. Shoot, the pay differential in Iraq is probably very high.
Yes, women DO have less seniority, overall. Some of those “old white guys” have been on the job for some 40 years. In my Gov’t job, I get paid more than any woman in the exact same series (or any man for that matter), as I have more years than anyone else (in my area).
By “margin of error”, when the GAO did the survey, they said women got 95% of the pay of men in the same job (after accounting for seniority, education, etc), with a 5% “margin of error”. In order to compare pay rates, you have to take a lot of them, so it becomes a survey, thus there creeps in a MoE.
of course you should concentrate on the US (after all, it’s an American newspaper service). But I only have easy access to UK news…
I’m sure women do have less seniority, overall. After all, the overwhelming view in society decades ago was that men worked and women stayed at home.
I’m happy that seniority / experience is rewarded with more pay.
and you’re perfectly correct about the survey having the “margin of error”.
But you’re referring to the National picture of pay rates.
I was thinking of specific cases, usually within one firm (or even one department), where seniority / qualifications were ignored, and men were automatically paid more than women. (You can extend this to better qualified women being passed over for promotion).
I don’t think women (or men) should be paid the same automatically - it should depend on their qualifications to do the job.
Thank God there are men like you who love to give women like me special treatment.
I am very independent - I have to be, being single for 10 years, raised three great kids alone, have a very successful career (in an office full of men and yes, I make the same amount), take care of my home (which I own) including large property, can work on my car, do carpentry, plumbing, electrical work (my toolbox would give most of you men boners), kill bugs, and don’t NEED a man to do anything for me (okay, sex is the exception).
However, I am not a bitter old “militant female”. I am unlike the few shrews who have posted here and thank God there were only a very few. I am very secure in who I am. I do not feel threatened by men who treat women like ladies.
In fact, those men who enjoy holding a door for a lady, pulling back her chair, helping her with her coat, and all those other things gentleman do, please feel free to practice on me any time you feel the urge.
My objection to “chivalrous” “polite” behavior is when it causes socially awkward or downright impolite results. For instance, if a guy feels obligated to run ahead and open the door, but then has to wait for the woman to arrive, things can get very awkward. I think it is only polite if someone is going through the door in front of me and simply holding it open for a second so I can grab it. But don’t put me in the awkward position of having to hurry up and get through the door to relieve you of your chivalric burden.
The thing that really gets me is elevators. It’s usually fine - in NC, men tend to let women off first. But several times, I have been in a crowded elevator with a man standing closest to the doors, dead center. He refuses to get off before the women behind him, effectively sealing everyone into the elevator until a) he realizes it’s futile and gets off, or more frequently b) he violates the personal space of the person next to him by scrunching himself backward into them to allow the women to pass him.
Politeness is nice, but don’t turn your brain off, OK?
you posted ‘My objection to “chivalrous” “polite” behavior is when it causes socially awkward or downright impolite results. For instance, if a guy feels obligated to run ahead and open the door, but then has to wait for the woman to arrive, things can get very awkward…I have been in a crowded elevator with a man standing closest to the doors, dead center. He refuses to get off before the women behind him…Politeness is nice, but don’t turn your brain off, OK?’
These are good examples.
But I don’t think these people understand politeness! The whole idea is to make things a little easier for others, and thereby make everyone feel good.
so if you hurry for a door, then have to wait for someone to arrive, your timing is off. They feel some social pressure, and you’re expecting them to speed up.
similarly, no polite person stands in the centre of the lift (hey, I’m English ), unless there’s nowhere else to stand. The centre is the main way on and off - stay clear of it!
