I would if the casual comment was, in fact, not racist. Case in point: the brewhaha that developed over the word “niggardly”.
What I take offense to is the quick draw on the word bigot. Too many times it is used as an attack without any basis in fact. I have been the victim of this even though NO WHERE have I posted anything that could possibly construed as even remotely homophobic. The stupid joke that started this whole thing was insensitive, I’m not arguing that, but there are far too many on this board who reach for the bigot card when challenged and hide behind it rather than trying to debate whatever issue is at hand.
Esprix is a hissy queen. gobear and homebrew, to pick two random examples, are not. Just because I think one homosexual is a screeching oversensitve child does not mean I am a bigot that thinks all homosexuals are screeching oversensitive children. One does not follow from the other and to try to link the two is ridiculous, lazy, stupid, and you should no better than that, lissenener.
One of the major points in these two threads has been that an entire group is not defined by a single individual. To me this was obvious to begin. It follows then that I can criticize Esprix without casting aspersions on the entire GLBT community. “hissy” is an adjective completely independant of sexual orientation. Why you are trying to link the two by is something you should perhaps think about.
My point is that your standard of sensitivity might be lower than you think it is; that something you think couldn’t be “possibly construed as even remotely homophobic” might in point of fact be perceived differently by someone with a different standard. You can either learn something about the local standard, the current culture, from people like Esprix and me, or you can rail defensively and learn absolutely nothing.
Anyway, my point was more in response to this idiotic statement:
The knee jerk accusation of bigotry is sickening. It’s amazing how many pages this thread has gone and yet you are still unable to distinguish the individual from the group.
I remember a thread Esprix posted in memory of a friend who had been beaten to death in the street. Taking offense easily and examing everyone for signs of bigotry isn't hissy. It's a survival mechanism.
BTW-
I never read the title as ‘All Het Men Are Stupid F*cks’. If that was what Esprix meant, that’s what he would have typed. I interpreted it as ‘You ignorant few by your actions have damaged the way the rest of the group is perceived.’
I remain lost; I don’t see where those of us “on Esprix’s side,” as it were, are lumping individuals together; rather, you homophobes are more guilty of this. Please explain.
Let me clarify a bit. Esprix wrongly assumed I didn’t have a problem with the word “gay” being used in a derogatory manner because I thought people were overreacting to the word “fat”. My standard of sensitivity regarding homosexuality was irrelevant as I didn’t even address the subject, yet he branded me bigoted against gays because I disagreed with him on an unrelated subject. I am truly sorry about what happened to his friend, but that does not give him license to throw unwaranted accusations.
His experiences may give him an understandable reason for being hissy, but it does not give him an excuse.
And also, just for the record, I never had a problem with his thread title either. I don’t think he is bigoted towards heteros, but I do think he, and some others, are far too quick to play the bigotry card. The tendency to use that type of character defamation is what I have an issue with.
It’s becasue you’re slow. I brought up a famous example of a small group of blacks being offended by a teacher’s use of the word “niggardly” in the the first post you replied to (read it again).
There it is again. The abjecy idiocy of this is breathtaking. I must be a homophobe merely because I disagree with one single solitary homosexual. This is the inability to distinguish an individual from the group I was talking about. I don’t have a problem with gays - I have a problem with Esprix (as related in my previous post). Just esprix. Only **Esprix. I also have a problem with the broad brush you are using to characterize those who disagree with you as homophobes, but that does but mean I hate the developmentally disabled.
There is no analogous comparison here. The point I think you are trying to make is that sometimes offensive, loaded terms can be used unwittingly by someone who is ignorant of the hurtful nature of the words. Niggardly is not such a word. It was completely misunderstood in the “example” you are referring to. The example Esprix was reacting to is indeed an offensive use (of a phrase by the way, not just a misunderstood word). Whether he overreacted or not is up for debate. I don’t think he did.
Whether he used a board-brush or not in his reaction in the Pit thread he started is also open for interpretation and debate. I don’t think he did. I think he meant it in the way DocCathode interpeted his comments.
It’s the height of irony that you and others are accusing Esprix of being overly sensitive when you (plural) have spent six pages feigning offense when, obvious to all but the obstinate, none was meant. This is particularly egregious since he apologized in the first fucking page when others said they were offended.
That is precisely his point. When called on it, he apologized and pledged not to repeat the offense - even when he intended none. Why can’t others, when made aware of offensiveness, do likewise?
To repeatedly call him a hissy queen and One-Trick Pony is teetering on jerkish behavior. Just because you think he overreacted to you in one thread is no justification to stalk him around the board and continue flogging that dead horse.
Homebrew, the “niggardly” comment was in response to lissener’s hypothetical about black people. Nothing more. It was not meant as a comment on either of the OPs. Additionally, as I stated earlier, I was not offended by Esprix’s OP. His comments regarding the “lesbian in a man’s body” joke were never what I was addressing (Hell, I actually sort of agree with him on the issue) nor was his word choice in the title. I don’t fall into either of the two waring camps here, but was only trying to point out that people should damn well think about what they are saying before they attack someone’s character by accusing them of prejudice.
Esprix, to be fair, no, you didn’t call anyone a bigot in this thread or the one that spawned it, although others (such as lissener) were more than happy to. What had got my dander up regarding you was a post addressed to me in another thread, The text is as follows:
**Upon rereading it, it is not heinous as I remembered, though it certainly implied something I didn’t appreciate. The fact that it was so out of the blue is what I remembered, and was criticizing. I had no intention of “stalking” you, as homebrew has characterized it, but this thread was discussing your posting behavior so I brought the incident up. This is the last I’ll say on the matter.
All that said, I think I’ll take gobear’s advice and shut up now. I’ve said my piece, make of it what you will.
As a straight man and an ignorant fuck, I am deeply offended by… umm… something here. Let me re-read, and I’ll get back to you with my wrath inflamed. Or not…
As well you should be, at such a blatant display of ignoramaphobia. Everyone other than those who agree with us completely are bad, bad people and should be flogged.
I wasn’t going to post again about this, but this comment from Lissener addresses my main problem.
You say people can either “learn something about the local standard, the current culture, from people like Esprix and me” or they can “rail defensively and learn absolutely nothing.”
Well, think about your part in the situation for a second. If you explain to someone why what they said is offensive, without calling them really terrible names, they will be likely to “learn something.”
But if you decide it is more important to you to not explain reasonably, but instead to attack the person and call their whole character into question, they will be likely to “rail defensively.”
If you are really interested in people learning, then you should choose the method that will actually result in learning, rather than going off into an attack on someone who really only needed to be told why what they did was wrong.
Monkey, that’s what you’ve been on about this whole time? I was only referring to that particular post - I didn’t mean to impinge your entire character. Maybe if you’d asked I could have clarified much, much sooner…
Nightime, I was venting, which is why (for the umpteenth time) I didn’t name names or mean to attack any singular person, only the comments that I’d heard a hundred times.