The one thing I’ll say for county is that on the subject of the rights of children, he’s consistent; he doesn’t give a Tinker’s damn for them.
But County is right. Minors don’t have full rights. In fact, the law holds that, in some cases, their judgement can not be trusted and that there are certain decisions they are incapable of making. (Can’t enter into contracts and no concentual sex, for two examples).
In the late 80s, the Supreme Court ruled to curtail the freedom of speech afforded students (Hazelwood case, 1988, example cite )
Minors don’t have full rights and privileges. This does not mean they are property or lacking in Human Rights, but they certainly don’t get the full rights afforded to adults.
Corporal punishment in school is wrong, though. I believe children have a right not to be beaten for acting up in class.
Ilsa_Lund, I pretty much agre with your position in the linked thread about school uniforms, but you’re acting like a total asshole here.
Go back and reread that thread. Here’s how it goes:
county states his position.
You come back with a stream of abuse at him, never once actually mentioning his points.
county answers in calm and reasoned words.
You come back with something like this: “Your stupidity is matched only by your astounding inability to hide it. Pictures of your ability for rational thought can be found on the back of milk cartons.”
You obviously think you’re mighty clever what with all them big fancy words, but why not try debating instead of abuse? Do you have it out for county for some other reason? Is there some backstory here that I’m not aware of?
Again, I agree with your position there, so how about trying to defend it instead of flinging empty insults?
So he has an excuse for uncivil behaviour, what’s yours?
I’m sure I probably disagree with county on pretty much everything under the sun - but this attempt to create a pile-on because you can’t be bothered to argue coherently with him looks kinda low, even with the funny lines.
county posts his opinion that children don’t have full rights in the way an adult does, (but specifically he says they should have freedom from beatings).
You could:-
A. Argue that kids should have the exact same rights as adults, or state which rights they should and shouldn’t hold in your opinion
B. Insult county, watch the whole thing degenerate, start a pit thread so you can insult county some more, drag up his past posts and hope others will help with the kicking.
Or did I miss something?
There is a big difference between “minors don’t have full rights” and “They are children, they don’t have a lot of rights beyond not being beaten or subjected to offensive language.” This statement is flat-out wrong, and upon having its wrongness pointed out to him repeatedly, county insists on clinging to it. Witness also his “gay” comment in the school uniforms thread; this is a reference back to yet another thread in which he further mocks and denigrates the civil rights of children (in that instance, a child of lesbian parents who was disciplined for using the word “gay” in school).
Minors certainly can enter into contracts; they have the ability to get out of them based on their age but that doesn’t mean they can’t enter into them in the first place. As far as consensual sex goes, there are a lot of factors that go into that such that “no consensual sex” is too broad of a statement.
Hazelwood is actually a free press case, rather than free speech, but regardless it’s still consistent with Tinker (which is still controlling precedent). Students have First Amendment rights, but administrators have the right to exercise editorial control over school-based student publications. Note that a school would have no authority to halt publication of a newspaper by students produced without school funds and away from school property. Nor could the school stop students from reading or distributing that newspaper at school as long as their reading and distributing of it did not disrupt school activities.
The man parks in fire lanes and thinks that children are smehow subhuman. Why bother debating? I called him out for his blatant stupidity.
No, you didn’t call him out for his blatant stupidity. You answered his opinion with abuse that was, in this case, unprovoked. He was being civil when you decided to let loose.
Get over yourself, dude. Really. You were the one who started the fireworks in that thread; until you did, it seemed like a prime chance to fight ignorance.
You were flinging such oh-so-clever insults as “You are so dense that Torricelli could have taken your shit and made functional barometer out of it.”
county’s strongest response to your incessant, pointless badgering was “Ok, enough’s enough: If you want to, Bite Me.”
In response, you started another Pit thread, since just one apparently wasn’t big enough to contain your polysyllabic, yet mysteriously juvenile, shitstorm. What on earth are you trying to accomplish?
And by the way:
Because that’s why we’re here. Get it?
No, we’re in Great Debates to debate. We’re in the Pit to flame, and flaming Ilsa is. (I give you an A on the pitting, BTW. Would be an A+ but for the ease of hitting the target.) County is well deserving of what abuse he is receiving, at least IMHO.
Clearly Ilsa_Lund did not want to discuss the topic of the linked thread and wanted to insult county, thus starting a new thread to contain the new topic. At the very least, it shows class to start your own thread rather than hijacking someone else’s.
I stand corrected on both counts: the Pit is for flaming, and that thread was about another topic, so starting a new one was the right thing to do.
But class? No.
county expressed a dissenting opinion in a perfectly civil manner, and Ilsa immediately began flinging vile insults with no substance to them whatsoever. Apparently Ilsa either was bringing issues from a previous thread or (this is my guess) just felt like opening up some verbal whoop-ass on somebody and thought, “Hey! Nobody likes county! I can berate him as savagely as I want and no one will interfere!”
(I can’t believe I’m defending county.)
The point is that it was a vile and stupid manner and opinion.
[example]
I hope you will not think too negatively of me as a result of this opinion, but I truly feel that beatings with axe handles are an acceptable way to solve union-management issues.
[/example]
This is a civil expression of a dissenting opinion. Were I moronic enough to hold such an opinion, I would expect to be called out for it. Except probably not, because I’d be really really really moronic.
DING DING!
We have a winner!
%
Not once did you say “this is a vile and stupid opinion.” You came back with pointless, ad hominem attacks that had nothing to do with his opinions. To me, you’re looking about as logical and sane as he is right now.
jackelope, I do not feel shy in saying that some opinions automatically qualify one for moronhood. I am perfectly willing to be disabused, however. Could you name me a person who does not fit your definition of moronhood who honestly feels something akin to my above example?
Oh please.
Just because he’s polite doesn’t mean he’s not a jackass.
I recall everyone saying, “But december’s so polite!”
You know, just because someone says something totally stupid and vile in a civil manner doesn’t make it right!
And you as intelligent.
Excuse me? I have never once said that county is anything other than a dickhead. That’s not even remotely my point here.
My point is that Ilsa_Lund had no reason to start flinging shit in the school uniforms thread. Period. That is ALL I’M SAYING.
In that thread, county said that corporal punishment should not be forbidden in public schools. He wasn’t ranting; he was presenting an opinion. While this is not my view, and makes me suspect that he has no children, you may recall that this was the prevalent opinion throughout the country until relatively recently, and is still so in much of the rest of the world.
That doesn’t make it right. I’m not saying he’s right. county is an asshole, as has been proven every time I’ve seen his screen name.
But Jebus, folks, what happened to fighting ignorance? county is clearly as ignorant as the day is long, and it seems to me that simply spewing bile all over one’s keyboard is unlikely to change that. He didn’t provoke the attack in that thread; he stated his opinion and got dipped in shit for it.
Nice fucking going, Ilsa. Classy. Way to take the moral high ground.
That’s as clear as I can make my point here.
That is untrue, and an opinion at best. When I see the assertion that minors are somehow subhuman, I will react.