Exactly, but women can have trouble finding that firm and strong persona.
I don’t entirely agree with you. I have watched men play pissy little power games involving subtle physical intimidation with each other; guys just handle them better. I think feeling one has the option of physical confrontation gives one a certain confidence.
I do agree with you in general. People treat men and women differently. People perceive men and women differently - tough or a bitch, empathetic or a wuss. Women are perceived as easier potential victims in general, and proving someone wrong, as the OP was aware, can be dangerous.
But this view does ignore one important point - that the OP sought to be re-assured that she should complain. Why is this post in IMHO instead of the Pit?
You’re not wrong, here, but just because men don’t make inappropriate overtures towards other men doesn’t mean they don’t treat women that way, and I think some women (especially younger women) are too passive and polite around some men. Why do they have to teach high school and college women to assert themselves and not to wait until the clothing is coming off before telling their dates, “Um, you know, I really just think of you as a friend”?
Are you a guy? Because that sounds like what somebody would say if they’ve never been put in this kind of situation; i.e., somebody with XY chromosomes.
Both are definitely true and again I think Gavin De Becker has a lot to say on this issue about how women often don’t put their feet down because we’re afraid of offending somebody. Which isn’t an inappropriate fear but sometimes gets you raped and murdered! I found myself struck in that book when I read it years ago that, look, obviously most people are not out to get you. However, people who go out of their way to “help” you probably want something from you, whether it’s self-validation or something else. You are much better off asking somebody for help if you’re in trouble than accepting help from somebody who offers. The point is, “the gift of fear” is that your subconscious knows its shit. If you confuse the signals by being scared of everything, you won’t know when you really ought to be afraid. If you’re smart and assertive, you give yourself a chance to catch on to when you really ought to be scared.
Depends on what you mean by “better”. Getting in a shouting match or throwing blows is often what happens when a guy feels threatened by another guy, but usually that’s in response to overt aggression. Not the creepy, patronizing passive aggressiveness being discussed in this thread. Guys don’t have a lot of experience dealing with scenarios in which boundaries are being crossed under the pretense of flirtation. That’s what the OP’s pest control guy was operating under.
Why must this be a gendered thing? A sign that women are raised to be indecisive weakings? Guys feel conflicted about shit too and need to be reassured that they aren’t overreacting sometimes. There would be little point in posting this in the Pit anyway, when the incident is over and done with, and the OP is looking for advice on what should be done. In other words, the Pit is not any more the “right” place for her issue than IMHO is.
I think people in general are raised to give people the benefit of the doubt. “Oh he’s just being nice…he’s a harmless doofus, not a jerk.” “Oh he’s just flirting…just let it go.”
I actually see this naive attitude from men more than women. Probably, like I said before, because they don’t have a lot of experience with Grade A creeps. Women seem more apt at recognizing creepy behavior and calling it creepy, while men seem more apt to pardon away creepy behavior as harmless, puppy love flirting or social ineptitude. The end result is that women are often pressured to ignore our gut feelings because we don’t want to get labeled oversensitive or emotional, or ruin someone else’s life by complaining.
So I disagree that this about women being “too nice”. That’s a oversimplification of a larger issue. It also implies that these things don’t happen to men because they aren’t “too nice”.
Um, if she had - and he really was a predator - that would have been a threat, and might have provoked some sort of escalation.
If you’re weirded out, you get him the hell OUT of your place as soon as possible. Not make any action he might perceive as a threat requiring him to slap down the uppity bitch. Not do anything to allow / encourage him to not leave.
Like a lot of others: the first portion of the interaction: poor social skills, not actively creepy. Bathroom #1: again, poor social skills. Though there are people who get really fussy about having others dump in their bathroom (There was a Dope thread on the subject). The bit about Dave in Toledo and being amused at creeping you out? Time for a phone call.
I don’t entirely agree that we are hijacking the thread. [snicker]
I am refering to the exact opposite of shouting and blows; by ‘the option of violence’, I meant that they knew they did not need to be violent. The physical confidence of knowing they are not likely to be horribly victimized physically gives them more confidence in all confrontations. See what I mean?
Yes on One, no on Two. Everyone abuses ‘flirtation’. But that’s not the issue, is it?
Women are raised all kinds of ways, but there just are not common cultural role models for women being firm and effective in confrontations. Who are there roles models? Mothers and aunts and grandmothers? Helen Mirren? Hellen Mirren is great, but how many young women want to be her now?
I do not think I said ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ about the forum choice. But that is a question - why didn’t the OP post “I PIT the Creepy Creep Control Guy”?
I’m going to quote from another thread that also addresses this issue, about Clarise Starling in the Silence of the Lambs, because I’m having trouble doing a post link:
I think that’s uncalled for. Making disrepectful comments about people with menial jobs (and there are certainly a number of them reading this thread, possibly even pest-control people) doesn’t give a good image of yourself.
(Regarding the OP : like everybody else. Even flirting doesn’t seem abnormal if you appeared to be responsive, but the “Dave in Toledo” thing was completely out of line, even if it was the result of him being a bit clueless and feeling too comfortable at your place. If wa)
(Regarding the OP : like everybody else. Even flirting, though certainly not his job, doesn’t seem that abnormal if you appeared to be responsive, but the “Dave in Toledo” thing was completely out of line, especially along with the "I’m creepy"comment. Even if it was the result of him being a bit clueless and feeling too comfortable at your place. He could get a pass if he had been a 18 yo new employee, but at 30 he should have known better and have a professional behaviour)
The issue is that a creep behaved in a creepy manner, not unlike the kind of flirting that creeps routinely engage in when they’re being creepy around women (not men).
And no, not everyone abuses “flirtation” like this.
There was no confrontation here. That’s kind of my point. There *would *have likely been a confrontation if the OP had escalated the issue rather than letting it go until he was out of the house. She was dealing with a guy being weird and creepy in a way that made her viscerally uncomfortable, but not immediately threatened, and that is a relevant thing to consider while we’re quarterbacking the situation. Could she have demanded he leave right then and there? Sure she could have. 20/20 hindsight makes it so easy for us say that. It also makes it easy for us to overanalyze her reaction to the incident and see it as just another example of how women fail to do X right.
And so here we are talking about the lack of good role models for women, as if that’s where the problem lies in the encounter we’re talking about. All I see is a guy, who’s supposed to be professional, who was given the benefit of the doubt that he would act professionally, somehow thinking it’s okay to creep out strangers. And yet we’re overanalyzing her behavior (along with women in general). Do you not see the oddness here?
I dunno. Probably because she wanted to post it in the IMHO. She was looking for feedback as to whether she should file a complaint, not to rant and rave about a guy she’ll probably never see again. Why even question her forum choice unless you think the Pit is what she should be doing?
I’m not trying to be argumentative with you. But if I were the OP, I’d be hella irritated if I came to get some opinions about a nusiance encounter and instead received a lecture (as well intentioned as it is) about how women are too nice and ineffective in handling the jerks that cross their path. Not everything needs to be deconstructed by gender, and most importantly, not everything needs to be looked at through the lense of how to get women act more like men.
“Not creeping clients out” is also an important job skill to learn.
I would report it, personally, because regardless of him creeping you out, he behaved in a completely unprofessional manner. You don’t get personal with clients, period. Sure as hell not with a client you met five minutes ago. Client relations skills are a vital part of being a bug guy or any service industry job, whether he knows it, or likes it, or not. He was Not Doing His Job, and his boss needs to know that so he can explain appropriate customer service to him.
Really, you’re doing bug guy a favor. He’s obviously unclear on his customer service skills (whether intentionally or not), so this can serve as a reminder that he needs to be professional while on the job.
I didn’t do any of the other things you said I did (where did you get that I’m saying you disagree that he’s creepy, WTF?), but I’ll respond to this.
The questions you’re posing (i.e., “Why aren’t pitting you him?”)and your focus on how women are socialized is why I think you’re overanalyzing her behavior and making it unnecessarily gendered. But I never said you’re personally attacking her. Just that your focus here is misplaced.
I do see your point, but for the most part I wouldn’t be comfortable with the guy thinking me an easy victim if he was considering more dangerous behavior.
Security expert Gavin DeBecker’s advice is that women shouldn’t be afraid to be a bit rude if they feel threatened or creeped out, and I agree with that. If he’s trying to figure out how compliant I’ll be the answer is not very.
I understand that not everyone feels this way and I wasn’t actually there so I’m sure the OP did exactly the right thing for her in the moment. Also I’m kind of a bitch so YMMV and all
I lost touch with a college friend of mine, and met her years later. When I asked what she was doing, her reply was “I’m an assassin now. I make a decent living from murder.”
Sorry that just sounds wimpy, if he is the type who might retaliate, guess what then? He’s already thinking he has the potential to do something less than honorable even outright shitty.
I’d call it in, better yet I would write it in, the complaint about the unprofessional behavior that crossed the line into creepy. And don’t wait until Dave gets home to do it either. What does he have to do with it anyhow, do you need to run it by him first, get his permission, sound him out so he can tell you not to make a big deal of it?
GO with your gut, report it, check your windows and doors, and keep your curtains closed at night.
When my apt in a gated community was burglarized, security blamed the Haitain lawn crew, I blamed the pest control company who apparently had a set of master keys and little supervision.
Service people who have creeped me out in the past?..roofer, pest control, gas meter reader(major creepy, peeking in our windows) and more recently the UPS guy who would not leave my doorstep, stood there mumbling to himself and asking for my signature and phone number to verify we got a package delivered a week ago. I scribbled my name, he stood there planted like a tree staring…creep!
The creepy guy could just have easily been the man who came over to sell the OP a million-dollar annuity – whether it’s a “menial” or blue-collar job has no bearing on the fact that when he comes into a private home, he has an obligation to respect the owner’s privacy.
And the OP has a right to hang her calendar in the bathroom or on her refrigerator door or put it on her desk or coffee table or anyplace she wants without fearing somebody’s going to interrogate her about it.
If somebody comes in your house, you should file the envelope from the Free Clinic that says “Results of your recent test,” but unless your calendar says “SEX PARTY FRIDAY NIGHT!” on it in fuchsia Sharpie, why the hell shouldn’t you leave it in your own bathroom? And even then, as Broomstick says, a professional would say nothing.
