[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Gil-Gandel is better with proper arrows of his own making.
[/QUOTE]
Yes. After this expedition is over I shall be using the leftovers and the best arrow-wood I can find in Minas Tirith to craft myself a fresh batch - as well as planning to harvest some of the wood I found earlier and begin maturing it. 
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
Yes. After this expedition is over I shall be using the leftovers and the best arrow-wood I can find in Minas Tirith to craft myself a fresh batch - as well as planning to harvest some of the wood I found earlier and begin maturing it.
[/QUOTE]
At that time, Ghân could probably help with Plant Growth.
[QUOTE=glee]
At that time, Ghân could probably help with Plant Growth.
[/QUOTE]
If you use the spell on a single tree you have a chance of really shaping* the wood.
Sounds like a plan!
I am moving this weekend. I was moving a little last weekend, but this weekend is the real deal. Come Monday everything must be in the new apartment because the locks are being changed on the old one.
That being said, not only will I not have time to post this weekend, I won’t even have computer access until late Sunday evening, and I will proably be too exhausted to care about the game at that point.
I will put by guy in the hands of whoever is willing to take on a hard fighting Dwarf for a few days. Just remember, Gwaelur likes to lead the charge, hates orcs with an unnatrual passion, and has a personal interest in keeping Brin and Ghan alive (he likes them more than the rest of you, sorry. I like you all equally.)
I recommend going with the shield and axe setup for now, but if you come across a really nasty guy I have a two handed axe also that packs a whallop.
See you Monday.
Thanks for the update NAF1138 and good luck on the move. The weekend will probably slow down anyway, the last two did. I think today was the most active since the first two days.
I’ve been posting this evening between a massive spring cleaning. We are trying to get the house spotless so 15 kids can wreck it again Sunday. 
Everyone, please give me feedback and if I jumped the gun today on anyone sorry, but I thought the flow was going well and I had the time to run the battle.
We are going to have to give some thought to treating orcs as sentient beings and not just monsters. This may prove sticky but it is an interesting development that hasn’t happened since the last time I had a really strong Druid player character.
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir]
Agreed on both counts, and yet Gondor does not have vast prison camps for captured orcs. Other than the Easterlings after the fall of Sauron, I can’t recall prisoners in any significant numbers being taken by the forces of Gondor in LOTR. It was an old AD&D dilemma when I used to play - what to do with captive orcs, goblins, bugbears, etc., especially women and children? They are, by their nature, evil, and will always remain so. If released they will eventually commit crimes under the King’s law. And yet if captured I think it’s wrong to just put them to the sword.
In our current situation, with some reluctance, I think we ought to take our prisoners under guard to Minas Tirith, and let the King’s justice be done to them, whatever that may be.
[/QUOTE]
It is worth noting that the Queen’s brothers do not share the more typical Elven and Gandalf-like mercy that Gil-Gandel does. I also saw little sign of Aragorn sparing any orcs, we know the Rohirrim do not.
Thoroncir would know that the King has great mercy for humans that fell under human sway, but cannot think of an example with orcs or trolls.
He also knows that it is extremely rare to encounter females and runts. Normally only dwarves do and he does know that Dwarves are strongly rumored to exterminate them all like any other vermin.
The King is not yet up to strength to go after the Goblins and Orcs deep in their caves, but he hope his actions have been keeping them on such short rations that they are dying out without killing them in their dens.
Gwaelur would be aware that the Dwarves still have plans to clean out Moria someday and no plans to spare a single goblin. In fact strangely enough, as we speak the Dwarves are gathering to finally destroy Goblin Gate to the North near Rivendell. They have hopes of enlisting Rivendell’s help and some Hobbits and the Beornings. (In Real time that is starting next week for the other party in game time it is in August or September and a few months from now.)
Jim
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
It is worth noting that the Queen’s brothers do not share the more typical Elven and Gandalf-like mercy that Gil-Gandel does. I also saw little sign of Aragorn sparing any orcs, we know the Rohirrim do not.
Thoroncir would know that the King has great mercy for humans that fell under human sway, but cannot think of an example with orcs or trolls.
He also knows that it is extremely rare to encounter females and runts. Normally only dwarves do and he does know that Dwarves are strongly rumored to exterminate them all like any other vermin.
The King is not yet up to strength to go after the Goblins and Orcs deep in their caves, but he hope his actions have been keeping them on such short rations that they are dying out without killing them in their dens.
Gwaelur would be aware that the Dwarves still have plans to clean out Moria someday and no plans to spare a single goblin. In fact strangely enough, as we speak the Dwarves are gathering to finally destroy Goblin Gate to the North near Rivendell. They have hopes of enlisting Rivendell’s help and some Hobbits and the Beornings. (In Real time that is starting next week for the other party in game time it is in August or September and a few months from now.)
Jim
[/QUOTE]
Elladan, Elrohir and to some extent Aragorn as their brother-in-law have more personal reason than most to hate the Orcs for what they did to Celebrian. Gil-Gandel is merely of the point of view that the party can’t claim a clear and present need to summary execution - if the King, or those in whom his justice vests, see fit to administer same then that is their affair.
He is also aware that mercy on his part now may be paid for by the blood of innocents in future, and he does not shirk getting his own hands dirty if he must, but only if he must. Typical NG really.
He has never heard of any orc ever being rehabilitated, admittedly; they are likely incapable of redemption in this world. This saddens him, for the reasons given in-thread… and he believes that at the Last Day Eru will call Morgoth to account for the ruining of every. single. Orc.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
We are going to have to give some thought to treating orcs as sentient beings and not just monsters. This may prove sticky but it is an interesting development that hasn’t happened since the last time I had a really strong Druid player character.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry if I’ve caused any problems. :o
As I posted in the main thread, my pupils are shown redemption rather than slaughter.
The Lord of the Rings is strong on the total corruption of some beings and the resulting problem of dealing with surrendered captives. So any Middle Earth campaign, naturally trying to be true to the Books, will face the difficulty. 
In our roleplaying terms, it is usually useful to have someone come up with information after the party win a combat. (Where is the next outpost of evil? Who is behind it all? Where are the other kidnapped prisoners?)
My suggestion is that some monsters (e.g. Balrogs*) are indeed completely evil. They expect no mercy (because they would never give any themselves) and so they fight to the death. However some Orcs or Ogres still have a spark of good, so they may surrender - and if well-treated, they may give information.
This means that the party still face much formidable opposition (no surrender!), but can avoid having to torture and kill those who do surrender (which to me negates claims of being aligned Good). They get the information the DM wants them to have and have to think about how to bring formerly Evil monsters into society. 
I think the Elves and Woses are correct. I think the Goblins and Orcs are redeemable, at least to some extent.
In the past, I had a Druid that slowly rescued some goblins and put them to useful work protecting the woods. He ensured they had a good food and better habit. I also had a subplot of some ancient elves that had first been tortures by Morgoth and then escaped in mass. They were extremely fearful, but moved far to the east and developed a small hidden kingdom of redeemed orcs under their protection and tutelage.
I have no problem with the way the game went, I just was not expecting it.
How Minas Tirith will deal with it is another question. We shall see.
BTW: To Dwarves, even enlightened Dwarves like Gimli, this talk of redeeming Goblins would be Crazy Talk! Might as well talk of redeeming rats and roaches.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
I think the Elves and Woses are correct. I think the Goblins and Orcs are redeemable, at least to some extent.
In the past, I had a Druid that slowly rescued some goblins and put them to useful work protecting the woods. He ensured they had a good food and better habit. I also had a subplot of some ancient elves that had first been tortures by Morgoth and then escaped in mass. They were extremely fearful, but moved far to the east and developed a small hidden kingdom of redeemed orcs under their protection and tutelage.
I have no problem with the way the game went, I just was not expecting it.
How Minas Tirith will deal with it is another question. We shall see.
BTW: To Dwarves, even enlightened Dwarves like Gimli, this talk of redeeming Goblins would be Crazy Talk! Might as well talk of redeeming rats and roaches.
[/QUOTE]
It’s your game, so thanks for listening to suggestions.
Since the Wose have suffered persecution by men (and especially Orcs) for a long time - then were suddenly treated well by King Elessar, they are keen on redemption.
A long time ago in a basement far far away, I once played a paladin who wiped out a group of rapacious bugbear warriors but then stumbled upon their women and children, hiding nearby. The GM really played up their helplessness and fear at the sight of me. My character and his small party didn’t have the numbers or the means to take prisoners, and as I understood it bugbears really were truly irredeemable… so we killed them all. But I didn’t feel good about it. Kinda like a medieval My Lai, you know? Ugh.
What Exit?: I think the fight sequences in the cave went fine. I guess the pace is going to slow slightly while we head back to base and work out what to do next. Are you going to start a new thread for each “chapter” of play or continue in the same one until it gets too big?
Malacandra: Just out of curiousity, how long did it take for you to come up with that? It was great. 
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
What Exit?: I think the fight sequences in the cave went fine. I guess the pace is going to slow slightly while we head back to base and work out what to do next. Are you going to start a new thread for each “chapter” of play or continue in the same one until it gets too big?
[/QUOTE]
That is a very good question, what should we do? Go for the longest thread ever on the dope or break it up. I see advantages to both. This current game thread has really moved and I was amazed last night when I realized how many posts are in it.
I could start each adventure with a new thread and have the first post include the links to the prior threads.
In addition, a party question, I feel lost as a DM without a NPC character as part of the party. What does the party see a need for as a ninth member?
We have every western race represented except Beorning. We have two thief types and we have a Mage and Druid already. We have a primary tracker and a backup.
I am thinking a healing cleric (A follower of Nienna, she would also be another to seek to rescue the goblin-folk from their cursed life.) She would strictly be a healer and undead destroyer. She would have minimal combat capabilities and she would wish to do no harm to living creatures most of the time.
A Warrior Cleric of Tulkas or Oromë is also possible.
The Warpriests of Tulkas are very warlike and usually come from the Beornings or Eorlings. They are often berserkers, shun armor and have no melee weapons, the problem is that they are not known for healing.
The Warpriests of Oromë would be a great hunter, a lance and mace users most likely. Healing is more in line with them.
Another choice would be a simple older fighter, who is not as exceptional as the party members are, but well seasoned and well equipped. (Higher level too, so not Cannon Fodder or a Red Shirt) I would think more of a front line fighter/campaigner.
There is always the possibility of just more active animals rounding out the party, but while Moose is strong and half for humor, an active animal NPC might prove too silly overall.
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
What Exit?: I think the fight sequences in the cave went fine. I guess the pace is going to slow slightly while we head back to base and work out what to do next. Are you going to start a new thread for each “chapter” of play or continue in the same one until it gets too big?
Malacandra: Just out of curiousity, how long did it take for you to come up with that? It was great.
[/QUOTE]
A couple of days mulling it over in my head - I was starting to compose it just before the last big battle - and then about an hour or so getting it all written down. The rhythmic structure and the refrain are based on a bardic chant I wrote for another campaign 25 years ago with a for-real 1st Edition bard (and you saw precious few of those). But “Master Andacor” was Neutral Evil and his refrain went:
“Slay the weak, oppress the humble,
Smite the poor with axe and sword!”
and so on from there. 
[QUOTE=Malacandra]
A couple of days mulling it over in my head - I was starting to compose it just before the last big battle - and then about an hour or so getting it all written down. The rhythmic structure and the refrain are based on a bardic chant I wrote for another campaign 25 years ago with a for-real 1st Edition bard (and you saw precious few of those). But “Master Andacor” was Neutral Evil and his refrain went:
“Slay the weak, oppress the humble,
Smite the poor with axe and sword!”
and so on from there.
[/QUOTE]
Your songs are the best* bits of the thread!
Our group gave up allowing Evil characters when half the party got killed (after ignoring warnings :eek: ). Just three of them were left, being pursued by zombies. So two of them shut the third in with the monsters and LOCKED THE DOOR. :rolleyes:
*well apart from the magical treasure! GOLD FEVER
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
That is a very good question, what should we do? Go for the longest thread ever on the dope or break it up. I see advantages to both. This current game thread has really moved and I was amazed last night when I realized how many posts are in it.
I could start each adventure with a new thread and have the first post include the links to the prior threads.
[/QUOTE]
I would suggest a new thread for each main chapter. I don’t think the mods would take too kindly if we tried to break the dope with a really long game thread, especially as they are trying to fix it at the mo. 
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
In addition, a party question, I feel lost as a DM without a NPC character as part of the party. What does the party see a need for as a ninth member?
[/QUOTE]
I like the idea of going with the healing cleric, it should round out the party nicely. You can never have enough healers in a party
A quick question, why do you prefer to have an NPC character in the party, I always tended to let my groups on their own (although some of them have had some very very useful servants). Just curious, it’s not a GM style, I’m familiar with.
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
That is a very good question, what should we do? Go for the longest thread ever on the dope or break it up. I see advantages to both. This current game thread has really moved and I was amazed last night when I realized how many posts are in it.
I could start each adventure with a new thread and have the first post include the links to the prior threads.
[/quote]
On the one hand it, would be great to tackle the ‘longest thread’ record - and with a proper topic!
On the other hand, it might get difficult to refer back to check something (but then if there are multiple threads, it still takes time finding the right one.)
Do we need to ask a Moderator?
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
In addition, a party question, I feel lost as a DM without a NPC character as part of the party.
[/quote]
I agree, jolly useful having a DM character along. Those little asides and reminders…
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
What does the party see a need for as a ninth member?
We have every western race represented except Beorning. We have two thief types and we have a Mage and Druid already. We have a primary tracker and a backup.
I am thinking a healing cleric (A follower of Nienna, she would also be another to seek to rescue the goblin-folk from their cursed life.) She would strictly be a healer and undead destroyer. She would have minimal combat capabilities and she would wish to do no harm to living creatures most of the time.
A Warrior Cleric of Tulkas or Oromë is also possible.
The Warpriests of Tulkas are very warlike and usually come from the Beornings or Eorlings. They are often berserkers, shun armor and have no melee weapons, the problem is that they are not known for healing.
The Warpriests of Oromë would be a great hunter, a lance and mace users most likely. Healing is more in line with them.
Another choice would be a simple older fighter, who is not as exceptional as the party members are, but well seasoned and well equipped. (Higher level too, so not Cannon Fodder or a Red Shirt) I would think more of a front line fighter/campaigner.
There is always the possibility of just more active animals rounding out the party, but while Moose is strong and half for humor, an active animal NPC might prove too silly overall.
[/QUOTE]
To me, it seems clear.
I don’t want a powerful NPC, because it overshadows the player characters.
Therefore a low-level fighter is not right, and an low-level MU is too weak.
I think our trackers, scouts and flankers do a great job.
As for animals, Ghân wants to recruit a couple (e.g. dogs), but mainly to protect himself and Deor while they cast (freeing up our fighters).
What Ghân wants is a second healer!
Firstly we wouldn’t have to rest so often and secondly he could load a couple of non-healing spells.
Your priestess above sounds perfect. She can tackle undead (Ghân has one spell for this - Flame Blade- , and usually drops it for healing), cure us (and she’ll probably know first aid, so can use herbal cures) and help convert the evil opponents who surrender.
By the White Tree, she’s perfect!
(I would strongly suggest she be lower level than us, but a wise 2nd level Cleric has 4 cures / per day…)
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
I like the idea of going with the healing cleric, it should round out the party nicely. You can never have enough healers in a party
[/quote]
I like your thinking!
[QUOTE=CatInASuit]
A quick question, why do you prefer to have an NPC character in the party, I always tended to let my groups on their own (although some of them have had some very very useful servants). Just curious, it’s not a GM style, I’m familiar with.
[/QUOTE]
Based purely on the single Internet game that I’ve just started, it’s very useful. Since the DM knows the plot, whereas the players may be posting in a hurry, the NPC can remind the party of things that happened a while back. The NPC can also suggest a vote, have some local knowledge or present a different point of view.
(I don’t use NPCs much in my face-to-face games, unless the party are beginners.)
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
That is a very good question, what should we do? Go for the longest thread ever on the dope or break it up. I see advantages to both. This current game thread has really moved and I was amazed last night when I realized how many posts are in it.
I could start each adventure with a new thread and have the first post include the links to the prior threads.
[/quote]
That would be my vote. Getting back to town would mark a good end to adventure one, and the hook to adventure two could begin the new thread.
Channeling DM of the Rings, a really hot, uninhibited chick!
This would be a reason to get injured! She could lay hands on me any time!
I should have kept my mouth shut
Why not. The party is just begging for a flying squirrel!