Thanks for the advice Marley23.
Impulse control problems don’t mean you’re not ready to date. Sadly they do mean you often end up in trouble, hurt those around you and feel like an idiot.
I speak from experience here.
It’s like when I chose the Pit thread; “I pit people who don’t train their big dogs”. Later I regretted singling out big dogs. Impulse is a problem, but I’m slow otherwise… I’m quiet in social situations, and have a hard time finding things to say. I guess I need more practice.
Is anyone, ever, really ready to date?
Anyway, I never sensed any “asshole” vibes from you in this thread. You, yourself, had the wisdom to realize that the question was sensitive: that’s why you asked for advice in the first place!
I don’t think you need to cancel the date; you just need to draw lines around some subjects of conversation that would probably be uncomfortable.
If you’re willing to be circumspect, then the only real danger is if she brings the subject up. And, as I said earlier, that’s when you very studiously don’t say anything! (Other than “pass the butter.”)
(Which, I guess, would be kind of silly if you were having, like, chicken soup…)
If you’re already thinking about how you would try to change a woman before you’ve even been out with her once, I’d seriously reconsider dating that particular woman at all.
I’ve been on dates with men who thought it was fun to try and convince me how wrong I was about Issue A, or Belief C … it’s not enjoyable. I didn’t go out with them again.
There’s your answer. First dates are for talking about your jobs and favorite movies and maybe sharing a dessert. Discussions of the existential nature of human existence, no. DON’T bring it up now. Maybe not ever.
You are under no compulsion to convince her of anything.
This goes beyond merely a lack of impulse control, though. We’re talking about a premeditated strategy for bringing up a delicate and contentious subject during a time of emotional turmoil. That’s hardly the same as merely failing to curb the occasional impulse.
Additionally, when someone says, “I don’t often think about what I’m saying until after I say it,” that suggests more than just an occasional failure to keep one’s impulses in check. A bit of struggle with impulse control shouldn’t keep one from dating. If this is a continual struggle though, then yes, I think it’s fair to say that one should at least achieve partial victory over this before stepping into the dating pool.
Now that, I can agree with.
Okay everyone, our op realized this. He stepped back and and recognized that even without the context of the sister’s death trying to “covert” someone to your POV is as obnoxious when it is an atheist trying to “convert” a believer as it is when it is a true believer trying to convert someone of a different faith or an atheist.
Let me ask this:
Can a relationship between a hard atheist and a true believer ever work out? Or will one or the other always end up trying to convert the other? And if that happens will it ever be tolerable for the other?
Obviously the subject of faith has come up already on-line: she has told him what she believes, knows his belief, and she has explained that the “non-religious” descriptor was false advertising caused by a friend writing her ad for her. She might bring the subject up on a date. Is discussing that question a reasonable thing to do on a date where two people are otherwise clicking both emotionally and intellectually?
If she brings up the subject of faith, exactly how careful should he be in parsing what he says? Is it fair for him, in that context, to express an understanding and an appreciation that her faith is important to her and is helping her tremendously with her loss, but that any long term relationship between them will have to eventually deal with the fact that they have this very basic difference in their worldviews? Alternatively is it fair for him to not have that discussion somewhat early on, albeit perhaps not a first date?
I’m gettin’ out my veiled hat! And honey, I am a *champion *at Not Mentioning Things on Dates, *believe *me.
I am a non-religious, non- church goer, but after my mother passed away I have received many signs. Perhaps if the OP lost someone they were extremely close to, his belief sysyem may be altered…just sayin…
It’s a good question - I mean, people disagree on just about any other thing, and it’s fine. I think the crux of the question is the believer’s view of the consequences of unbelief for the atheist.
I can easily imagine an atheist saying “Don’t care what you think, as long as you don’t think it out loud” and leaving it there, but if the believer thinks the athiest is going to suffer eternal torment* unless converted, it seems to me they’ll be less likely to drop the topic.
*Of course, not all religions do have this feature - but that’s the point - I think those that do are the ones that will combine least successfuly in a faith/non-faith relationship.
I’m glad you’ve decided not to challenge her. It still bothers me that you think you’re superior to her. It’s hard to start off a relationship when you think you’re better than the person you’re dating.
With respect to your date pulling out those things about Christianity that make her happy…
Isn’t that what a lot of people do? Either that, or they go against their faith where their faith is no longer practical and otherwise consider themselves devout. Who cares?
He realized it, yes, but only after every single person in the thread told him he was wrong, he argued with them that no, he was really doing this woman a favor to point out the error of her ways, and there was a unanimous response of “no it’s not, wtf is wrong with you?” And even then it wasn’t a “:smack: What was I thinking?!” kind of realization that he was wrong, more of a “:dubious: Yeah, I guess I shouldn’t have done that.” And then he follows it up with “Oh, I just blurt out stuff without thinking about how it will affect anyone else pretty regularly” as though that’s a normal and acceptable state of affairs rather than something he should be working on.
I’m not going to go so far as to say he’s not ready to date, but I will say that sort of thing is likely to make him seriously unappealing as a partner. Who wants to spend a big chunk of their time dealing with someone saying or doing stupid, thoughtless, often hurtful things? Not to mention the fact that if she wanted a guy like that, they’re not exactly thin on the ground. She could almost certainly already have one without resorting to online dating, most likely one who’s smarter/cuter/richer/better in bed/whatever than the OP. He’s going to need bring something pretty awesome to the table to get past this whole “not thinking” thing and make a relationship work.
As for whether atheist/believer relationships can work, it depends on how militantly sure they are that their viewpoint is The One True Way. Someone like the OP who says that someone is smart enough to see he’s right after it’s explained properly…no, that’s never going to work. Ditto his religious counterpart who is sure someone will come to light once you tell them about this mysterious Jesus person they’ve never heard of. People like that simply don’t respect the opposing view because the other person is Wrong!, and that’s pure poison for a relationship. But for other people, who know that we’re ultimately all just spitballing about the unknowable and can truly respect someone else’s belief or lack thereof, it can work out fine.
Discussing religious differences on a date is reasonable once you know each other well enough that you both feel comfortable discussing it. Unless you’re unwilling/unable to engage your brain to mouth filter, in which case you really shouldn’t discuss religion, politics, money, or whether someone’s family is crazy with anyone. Ever.
Bzzzt! Nope, try again later. I am non-religious, non-church goer, and after *my *mother passed away, I never heard a word from her again. She is gone. Dead. She no longer exists. She’s kicked the bucket, she’s shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisible. She is an ex-mother.
Nah. She’s just restin’
I assure you, the OP is this:
:smack:
(
Not this:
:dubious:
Another vote for “been there, nothing altered.”
Frank! I think we’ve got an eater!
I’ll get the oven on!
Are you suggesting we eat my mother?
Uhmm… Yeah. not raw. not raw. She’d be good with some ketchup and a few french fries. smack, smack, smack, smack
Well, I am feeling a bit peckish- oh, no, no, I can’t.
Look, we’ll eat your mum, then if you still feel a bit guilty we’ll dig a grave and you can throw up into it.
That said, and it had to be said, I am personally a soft Spinozan pantheist, and I have great respect for others’ religious beliefs and non-beliefs, but I imagine I’d have a hard time having a long term serious relationship with a strong true believer and I think that they’d have a hard time with me. A strong believer in an afterlife where we will meet again lasting with a hard atheist? That’s going to be tricky and only work if both enjoy the debate and connect in every other way I think.
Another question - what if this wasn’t about religion, but say she was a climate change denier? Would that be fair game to discuss and to try to change her mind about?
Re-read what you just said. Of COURSE you want to crush her hopes, you just SAID you did.
You just don’t want her to hate you for it.
If you can’t understand that this woman believes she will one day see her sister again because having that belief is a way to mitigate the intense pain and grief she’s in, you are too socially and emotionally tone deaf to be with her. This has nothing to do with atheism, religious belief, right, wrong, or anything else – this is you thinking you’re doing someone a favor by correcting their foolish thinking, and not taking a moment to consider what is motivating them from their point of view. That is a disaster for a relationship.