You’ll never meet a bigger porn advocate than me. I once spent an entire semester trying to convince a women’s studies class that porn was great.
But Aeschines, you’ve left the realm of reality here. Some frustrated little emotion of yours has exploded and left a mess all over this thread. You seem to have forgotten that women are humans, with the same hopes and flaws and dreams and problems that all humans have. I go whole days without trying to castrate anyone. I once spent a week without trying to rope men in to an expensive sexless marriage. During that week I did all kind of things that normal people do- cooked lunch, went bowling, had a few glasses of wine. Please step back for a moment and look to see that women are not some great freaky flaw in the universe with malevolent designs on men- but rather humans with the same portion of good and bad as any other group of humans.
Would you care to cite something I said that justifies such verbiage?
Both men and women have flaws in their natures that tend to make themselves and each other miserable. It’s the human condition. I don’t blame one sex more than the other.
Yeah, I can cite nearly everything you’ve said in this whole damn thread.
Read: Women don’t “get” men. Women are trying to destroy man’s true nature.
Also implied: All women are the same. Women do not have a sexual nature. Women manipulate men.
Read: SausageCreatures’s gender invalidates her contribution to the thread.
Also Implied: All women have the same opinion on the subject. A woman by nature does not have anything interesting or meaningful to contribute to the subject, presumably because she “lives in Jackchickistan”
Read: A woman’s desires in a relationship and a man’s are fundamentally different and irreconcilable.
Also implied: Women are using their sexual wiles to force men to support them emotionally (and perhaps financially) and not giving men what they want in return. Women would all rather have “support” and “respect” over sex.
Read: Men are “swine”, but thats okay. The real problem is with women.
Also Implied: Women are all too dumb, manipulative, or deluded to just give in and have no-strings sex with men all the time. Women don’t like sex. Sexual relations are bad for women, who “suffer horribly” from them. Women are always the victim in situations like this, because women are easily victimized. The solution is for women to learn to accept men that make them “suffer horribly”.
Read: A lot- a lot- of women are prudes.
Also implied: Women don’t like sex. Women are crazy like Jack Chick. Women are irrational.
Often not, and vice versa. Hence the book Men Are From Mars.
Nope, the needs of the sexes are often simply antithetical. It’s the human condition.
Not implied.
No. It’s just that many more women are opposed to porn than men for reasons that are, apparently, hard-wired. I thought I was arguing against a man opposed to porn, but it made much more sense when I found out she was a woman.
[quote]
Also Implied: All women have the same opinion on the subject. A woman by nature does not have anything interesting or meaningful to contribute to the subject, presumably because she “lives in Jackchickistan.”
[quote]
Sadly, you’re providing a data point that supports the generalism that woman suck at logic.
No, but what can be said is that there are built-in, hard-wired contradictions that come into play between the average woman and the average man, resulting in the average relationship having serious problems.
To clarify, men are pigs and women are golddiggers. Women often think, often correctly, “He just wants my body,” and men often think, often correctly, “She just wants my money.”
It’s hard to find even a successful relationship in which the above feelings never come into play. The needs of men and women are asymetrical and often contradictory.
Nope.
Nope. But it does seem part of the female hard-wiring not to see her man as he is but always through a lens of hope and wishful thinking.
A lot more women than men, right.
Uh, well, on that last point, please reread your post. Thanks!
If your theories are correct, gay guys should never have these kinds of fights because they are “hardwired” the same. I assure you this is not true, and gay men break up over the same issues of jealousy, golddigging, cheating, shillness and other relationship baddies that crop up any time two humans get close. Try listening to some Pansy Division songs one day- the only thing different about their love found/love lost songs from a straight band is the pronouns.
We have been living in civilizations for 10,000 years. During this, we have managed to change all manner of things we are “hardwired” to do. If there is anything less natural than putting on a suit, hopping on a bus, and going to work on a computer in an office building, I don’t know what it is. But I do this every day without ever picking for fleas or scratching in the mud or something. Gender roles are just another product of our society (note that in Islamic though, women are the ones with unrestrained sexuality that need the civilizing factor of men to keep them from screwing everything in sight) and are no more universal than liking the Beatles.
Furthermore, most men and women managed to live their lives without these massive gender clashes. I know these things never come up in my relationship- we have a happy, economically equal, sexual and loving relationship. Non-gender related factors (like my love of travel or his love of mess) are a much bigger issue than our caveman urges. Maybe you are from Mars and your woman is from Venus, but the rest of the world is getting along just fine.
Aeschines, I would argue that it’s not hard-wired so much as women in our society, until very recently, and even now, have been brought up to believe that “nice girls don’t do that”, that a decent girl doesn’t talk about sex, or act sexy, and that porn is something bad and shameful.
You’re going to have to explain the above better for it to make sense. I haven’t discussed gays at all in this thread.
If we’ve changed them, then they weren’t hardwired.
Is your claim that humans have no hard-wired tendencies? And/or that there are no hard-wired differences between the sexes visible over large enough populations?
Yeah, and those things aren’t hard-wired (wearing clothing probably is).
Gender roles no doubt have a lot of input from society (environment), but they aren’t “just another product” of the environment. Much there is hard-wired.
Most, huh?
What a retarded way to phrase things! You act as though its my idea about the Mars thing. There’s a fucking book about it that reflects a lot of people’s experiences.
I’m glad you have a good relationship, but to actually see the world and comment intelligently on it, you have to take your head out of your ass.
I agree that female sexuality in European society has been pushed into the prudish zone for a long time, but in general you see similar attitudes across societies and over long periods of time: Females are to be protected, they are either whores or madonnas, etc.
The larger point is this: I think it’s funny when people say (about any tendency), “Oh, that’s just 'cause society makes it that way,” even though that tendency has been in evidence for 10,000 years across the species.
A social practice could not exist for that long without some hard-wiring to support it.
Last night hubby and I were having a second go-round just before going to bed. We’d already had a go earlier that evening, and both had come, but because it was our second time in a few hours hubby was feeling it but just not getting anywhere. Eventually I came, but it worked out we had to stop, because I was getting too tired and sore. So I went to sleep, and hubby gave himself a hand.
Other times we’ll not have sex for a couple of weeks at a time, because I work a rotating shift roster and often our schedules just don’t match. I know during those times hubby will have a wank every so often, sometimes with and sometimes without pr0n. Just because I’m not in the mood doesn’t mean I’m going to make him go without any stimulation at all.
Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled pissing match. [/hijack]
I would really, really like to see some sort of cite for the whole “women don’t like porn” thing. Just about all of the women I know love porn. Now, most of these women wouldn’t outwardly admit to the public about the porn loving, but they do it (much like masturbation).
So either I hang out with particularly slutty girls or ya’ll aren’t quite right with that point.
Aeschines, I’m with you man, I really am, but tell me that point #2 was sarcasm. I think it is, but it seems that many folks in this thread think it’s literal.
