I want an apology for the crimes of the following women, stat.
My question is about the principle of collective responsibility (which I am not, incidentally, categorically dismissing).
I am wondering if you see collective responsibility as something that only adheres to men, or only to groups that you’re not a member of, or only to groups which have collectively perpetrated wrongs beyond some standard, or how does this work?
Actually your question was whether I would apologize for the wrongs done by other women, suggesting that you see some kind of wrongs done by women against men that you consider on a par with those done by men against women.
I’ve never thought about the issue in the terms you offer, but the off-the-top answer would be:
distinctively identifiable
on some other distinctively identifiable groups
But I can’t think of any other group v. group that compares, as I’ve noted before.
I would like to apologize for Stoid. I’m really sorry about that.
I’d like to apologize for dogs everywhere. I know I’m not one, but I do feel my energy and theirs are very strongly linked.
I know they’ve done some things in the past that may not be quite kosher: like pooping on yards and being dogs, but they didn’t mean any harm.
Now apologize for the leg humping!
Certainly some women have done some men wrong. I do not say that the sum total approaches that of the wrong done by many men to many women.
I’m questioning what specific dynamic allows extrapolation from actions by members of an identifiable group to responsibility of the whole group. I am not arguing that there can’t be such a dynamic–just that you’d better be prepared to explain what it is if you want people to accept responsibility for things that they didn’t personally do.
Well, you are a white heterosexual American, right? Do you accept a share of responsibility for the displacement and near-extermination of Native Americans? How about the enslavement and segregation of black people? Dropping the Bomb on Japan? The killing of civilians in Vietnam? The oppression of gay folks? I have heard or read representatives of the victims in all these cases (perhaps self-appointed representatives) laying the blame for their sufferings at your demographic door. Are they right to do so?
I couldn’t make it all the way through, despite repeated tries. At the end, did they all take poison so the UFO hiding behind the comet could take them to Wonder Woman’s kingdom?
Jeez. That’s probably the most horrific combination of pusillanimity & megalomania I’ve ever experienced.
Logically deficient, sociologically illiterate, and character-free.
The internet grants the fool and the wise man equal opportunity to bay at the Moon. Seems the fools took us up on the offer.
I am reasonably certain that this video qualifies as a war crime.
I can see why it resonates with you, Stoid. It’s right up your alley.
My god, what a pack of pussies. Real men treat women as equals in real life without even being conscious of it. Those guys are trying way too hard they’re just so concerned. I am far, far from a violent man but I had visions of bashing in their faces with a fucking pipe wrench which is probably the opposite of the emotion that they were trying to convey. Does anyone think that there is one misogynist on Earth who will be convinced by that tripe?
It reminds me of those creepy ‘‘nice guys’’ who are always holding open doors and making a big point about how romantic and sensitive they are. Weird.
And yes, if I were a dude, I would find this insulting.
Wow. What the shit is this?
You mean dude in the red shirt at 5:06? I’d do him if I weren’t certain that he has a vagina.
Nah- You gotta go full Bukkake.
I’ve been lurking since the late 90s and this video was what got me to finally register and post. I almost registered for the lindsaybluth insanity, but I just couldn’t let this video go by without saying something.
I have wondered before if Stoid is a troll who posts things like this just to get everyone worked up. Is there anyone else out there that actually likes this?!?!?!
Yep. We have a regular one on these boards. The two in the video acted like serial rapists who are trying to throw people off of their trail.
We need the female version of Walter E. Williams’ “Gift”. 
I just can’t take the guilt anymore!
Honestly, I was put off by the metaphysical vocabulary. There is no “masculine unconscious” anymore than there is “feminine unconscious”. Woman is no better in contact with the biosphere than Man, science does not belong to Man, and intuition does not belong to Woman. Furthering these stereotypes does just as much damage as insisting that Woman is the weaker gender and Man the stronger.
I have mixed feelings about the idea of apologizing for others’ actions. To draw a parallel, several years ago, I learned that one of my ancestors owned another human being - a woman slave, undoubtedly of African heritage. I discovered this when I read his will wherein he bequeathed this human being to his daughter. I can’t claim any responsibility for what my ancestor did, but at the same time, the fact that he, and then his daughter, owned another human being and made use of her labor, economically benefited them. That benefit may have dissipated within one generation, or it may have led, through the many generations which followed, to benefit my life today.
So, just as I have benefited from the destruction of the environment whenever I pump gas into my car, the exploitation of irreplaceable resources like the precious metals in my computer, the labor of slave children which made many of my clothes, I have, in some unquantifiable way, probably benefited from my ancestor owning another human being as if she were livestock - livestock he could have raped at will, or beaten, or tortured, or killed.
I can’t go back 175 years and put things right. Hell, right now, it’s all I can do to limit the damage I’m doing to my planet and the biosphere around me. But that doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge that a wrong was done, and it was done by someone with a connection to me.
It means something to stand up and say “this is wrong”. Slavery is wrong. Cutting off a person’s genitalia is wrong. Purchasing pornography made in coercive or exploitive circumstances is wrong. Benefiting from the pain or abuse of another human being is wrong. And if I say “I am sorry about these things,” I am not admitting guilt. I am expressing sincere sorrow and acknowledging that harm was done.
But the thing is, I’m not a member of the group that is most often responsible for the actions discussed in the video. I am less connected to those actions than I am to my slave-owning ancestor. So, to me, it means a little less than it would if a person more closely connected to the group were to say “This was wrong. I am sorry this happened.”
Logically or illogically, it means more if a person who shares major traits with the person who hurt me says “This was wrong. That person was wrong. I am sorry this happened.” It helps me understand that not everyone with those defining traits, not everyone who is a member of that group, is willing to hurt me. It helps me heal, because when someone says that out loud, it’s a reminder to others that, yes, this thing is wrong. It helps me, because when someone says that out loud, it creates a new norm, where causing that harm is not acceptable.
And because this applies to me as well, I will say:
If you are the descendant of a slave, what my ancestor and those like him did was wrong. It was evil. I am so sorry that happened.
If you are a man who was deceived by a woman into conceiving an unwanted child, or falsely accused of rape, or cheated on, or otherwise harmed, what that woman did was wrong. It was harmful. It was immoral, unethical, and possibly illegal. I am so sorry that happened.
If you were a child who was emotionally or physically abused by a trusted adult, like a teacher, what they did was wrong. That person should have been fired, perhaps been prosecuted, and never allowed to harm a child again. I am so sorry that happened.
I will not own a slave. I will not deceive a man into creating a child he doesn’t want. I will not falsely accuse a man of rape. I will not promise sexual fidelity to a man and break my promise. I will not abuse any child, emotionally, physically or otherwise.
I will denounce that behavior where I see it. I will challenge it if it is spoken of in accepting terms. I will support the authorities in bringing to justice any who commit such crimes.
There. Was that so very difficult?
Phouka, I agree that we can be conscious of how we have benefited from terrible things that have happened to others, and we can accept responsibility for our behaviors, passive or active, that lead to bad outcomes, environmental degradation, and oppression. And we all have such behaviors.