[QUOTE=buttonjockey308]
Jinkes, you ARE that naive, aren’t you.
Here’s a freedom of speech test for you…
Come to Chicago. Take a cab to 63rd and Stony Island. Get out of the cab, put on a Klansmans hood and hang an ‘I hate niggers’ sign (ala die hard3) from your neck.
See what happens.
My bet? Your freedom of speech, along with most of your brains, will be left in a puddle on the sidewalk.
Another one…
Still in Chicago, take a cab to the North Halsted district, hang a different sign saying ‘I hate fags’ from your neck. Odds are, you’ll catch the same kind of beating.
And, you’ll have it coming.
It’s REAL life.
[/QUOTE]
None of those examples make it right. And none of them justify your desire to personally attack Der Trihs. Let the douchebag type. Dont waste your energy giving a fuck.
Which is it? You have a choice or you don’t? It’s the way things are or it’s the way things should be?
Again, you are trying to claim that it’s not your fault things are the way they are, oh, but some people have it coming and you just have to hurt them.
[QUOTE=Bear_Nenno]
Wrong. You attempt an intelligent exchange of ideas. Failing that, you agree to disagree. Failing that, you simply ignore the idiot.
Ironic it’s the infantryman who needs to point out that indescriminate violence is never the answer to anything. It’s certainly not the answer to Mr trihs’s diatribe.
[/QUOTE]
The breakdown in the “exchange of ideas” is the reason infantrymen like yourself exist. Sometimes, very extreme points of view require very extreme reactions.
Don’t buy it? Ask a Kurd, or anyone living in Croatia during the 90’s.
[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
Which is it? You have a choice or you don’t? It’s the way things are or it’s the way things should be?
Again, you are trying to claim that it’s not your fault things are the way they are, oh, but some people have it coming and you just have to hurt them.
[/QUOTE]
No, I don’t HAVE to hurt anyone, that’s not saying someone else won’t. The possiblity exsists with every extreme point of view, that, like physics, there will be an equal and opposite reaction. When you throw a bowling ball into the air above your head, and it comes down on your head, do you blame yourself, or do you blame gravity? If you cover yourself in honey and wander into the forest, do you blame the bear, or yourself?
[QUOTE=Bear_Nenno]
None of those examples make it right. And none of them justify your desire to personally attack Der Trihs. Let the douchebag type. Dont waste your energy giving a fuck.
[/QUOTE]
Well no, of course it doesn’t make it RIGHT! I never said it did, that does not change the fact that it is how it is.
**Der Trihs ** comments cross the line with me, because I read them as:
“I want Oakie’s relatives to get killed because they are murderous military scum”.
…
Yes, popping him would be a bad thing. A misdemeanor offense with potentially embarassing and inconvenient consequences. I shouldn’t oughta do that kind of thing.
My point was that he would never make a statement like that near anyone likely to call him on it. It’s very easy to hide behind a keyboard and type his garbage. It’s not so easy to say it to someone face to face.
[/QUOTE]
Oakminster,
I read his lines as “I want SGT Nenno, all of his friends and all of his colleagues to get killed because they are murderers and rapists. The close friends he lost deserved it!”
But I tell ya, I still dont give a fuck about that piss-ant. His opinion is less significant to me than his vapid existance is to mankind. Dont give him a second thought. I’m sure your relatives couldn’t care less.
And FTR, yes, I know I said…" There are times, like it or not, when you’ve just got to kick some guy’s ass to get the results you’re looking for" …I meant it on a broader scale than just Der Trisha. Still I don’t know of too many people, for instance, that wouldn’t mind seeing, say, Phred Phelps, take a good beating. No, it wouldn’t be right, but it WOULD be satisfying, and if anybody truly has it coming…
I find it fascinating that people can get their panties twisted because someone or other does or does not wish for red asshole to face the effects of his words when he wishes that EVERY ENLISTED PERSON IN THE AMERICAN ARMED FORCES IS KILLED. Christ, folks, get some perspective. He wants your brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, moms and dads to die.
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308]
The breakdown in the “exchange of ideas” is the reason infantrymen like yourself exist. Sometimes, very extreme points of view require very extreme reactions.
Don’t buy it? Ask a Kurd, or anyone living in Croatia during the 90’s.
[/QUOTE]
When the “exchange of ideas” fails to stop some person or some entity from being an immediate threat to freedom or safety, then violence is warranted.
However, people should not be killed or punished or attacked simply as a means to silence them.
Protecting lives and preserving freedom sometimes requires violence. This is unarguably apparent by observing the police. Sometimes people are killed to protect others. I have no issues with killing to protect the innocent. I will gladly kill a person who is an actual threat to freedom or safety. But I wouldn’t even pinch someone simply because they’re a douchebag.
[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
You know what else is easy to hide behind a keyboard and do? Threaten people.
[/QUOTE]
Thing is, I never threatened him. I did invite him to repeat the statement within arms reach. I have strongly implied that if he were foolish enough to do so, I would react in a manner he found highly unpleasant. That’s not a threat. It’s a conditional hypothetical. If he did X, I would do Y.
A threat would be “I’m going to kick HypotheticalPoster01’s ass. I’ll use my uberleet haxxor skills to identify HyptheticalPoster01, travel to wherever he lives, knock on his door, and punch him in the nose. Bop!”
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
I find it fascinating that people can get their panties twisted because someone or other does or does not wish for red asshole to face the effects of his words when he wishes that EVERY ENLISTED PERSON IN THE AMERICAN ARMED FORCES IS KILLED. Christ, folks, get some perspective. He wants your brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, moms and dads to die.
[/QUOTE]
You know Contrapuntal, I have only run across you a few times and for as much as you complain about others being jerks and offensive. You are very offensive and jerkish yourself. You go on the attack if someone disagrees with you. You try to out shout the opposition. You do not debate and discuss, you yell and scream.
Do you think this is an effective method? Do you think it makes people take your point more seriously? What is to be gained by accusing anyone of their “Panties twisted”? I do not know if you noticed but at least two of the members saying to just ignore Der Trihs sad little outbursts are active duty serviceman and I am a vet from a family of vets. If we can ignore his stupidity why do you let his dumb posts gets your “panties into a bunch”?
[QUOTE=Oakminster]
Thing is, I never threatened him. I did invite him to repeat the statement within arms reach. I have strongly implied that if he were foolish enough to do so, I would react in a manner he found highly unpleasant. That’s not a threat. It’s a conditional hypothetical. If he did X, I would do Y.
A threat would be “I’m going to kick HypotheticalPoster01’s ass. I’ll use my uberleet haxxor skills to identify HyptheticalPoster01, travel to wherever he lives, knock on his door, and punch him in the nose. Bop!”
[/QUOTE]
Cool, you liked Jay and Silent Bob stike back also?
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
I find it fascinating that people can get their panties twisted because someone or other does or does not wish for red asshole to face the effects of his words when he wishes that EVERY ENLISTED PERSON IN THE AMERICAN ARMED FORCES IS KILLED. Christ, folks, get some perspective. He wants your brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, moms and dads to die.
[/QUOTE]
One person is saying he’d like something to happen that he has no power to do. DT can’t magically make the Iraqis kill the American soldiers before being killed themselves.
The other people are saying they want to do something that they do have the power to do–physically hurt those who say things they don’t like.
That’s the difference as I see it.
And, to repeat, I don’t think DT wants all the servicepeople killed if they stop being a threat to the Iraqis. He wants them killed because they are a threat to other people’s safety. He hates them because they are a threat. He even explained that he had no problem with WWII, so it isn’t a generalized “I hate America and all American soldiers ever!” It’s a very specific charge that American soldiers (and the American government) is getting Iraqis killed and the Iraqis are justified in fighting back.
Unless he tells me I’ve got it wrong, that’s the way I read it. And since I’ve seen him make the argument a whole lot, I don’t think I’ve got it wrong.
[QUOTE=Oakminster]
Thing is, I never threatened him. I did invite him to repeat the statement within arms reach. I have strongly implied that if he were foolish enough to do so, I would react in a manner he found highly unpleasant. That’s not a threat. It’s a conditional hypothetical. If he did X, I would do Y.
[/QUOTE]
It’s a threat, and a thinly disguised one at that. But big deal. Don’t waste you time threatening the bum. If he does say something stupid like he’s posted here, just laugh at him. That’s more damaging to his self than any violence you could do–and violence will only prove his point.
The other people are saying they want to do something that they do have the power to do–physically hurt those who say things they don’t like.
That’s the difference as I see it.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t get where you’re coming from. Do you deny that if he made a similar statement in pretty much any local bar around the country, ass kicking would likely ensue? Words can provoke violence. In the world I live in, wishing death or otherwise offering grievious insult to someone’s family is at least an even money bet for an ass kicking. In some bars I’ve been known to frequent, it’s a virtual guarantee.
I do not have the present ability to bop Der Trihs in the nose. I do not know who he is, or where he lives. I can’t ask Scotty to beam me there.
If I did have some magical means of confronting Der Trihs, he’s still got an out. He can refuse to repeat the statement while I’m staring him in the face. This is the option I’d expect him to choose. The sheer terror and pants wetting would be funny, though.
A dirty back of the envelope calculation shows that one American soldier is worth about 200 Iraqi lives at the current exchange rate. The 18,000 wounded or so can be paid for with the displacement of 1.5 million.
[QUOTE=Gary Kumquat]
Good. Then do so here. If you want to berate him, then here’s a perfect place to do so. Rip his claims to shreds, demonstrate his stupidity, go for it.
[/QUOTE]
Number one, because he never attends his own pittings. I’m here for the pile-on, not for any idealistic hope that D T will see the error of his ways.
Number two, better dopers than I have already typed the riot act at D T. I don’t know if he reads them or not. I do know that he has the option of not reading it at all, or stopping reading when his little feewings get hurt. However, if he were to spew his shit in public, he would not have the option of averting his eyes and walking away from what he started. Unless he can run really, really fast.
