Der Trihs, a moment of your time, if you would.

The BBQ Pit
161

[Quote=Lemur866]
Acting shocked, shocked, that people would respond to physical threats with physical threats is pretty naive.
[/Quote]

I’m not so much seeing “shocked, shocked”. Some people, such as myself, find the veiled threats made here to be rather childish and pointless reactions, but I wouldn’t say I’m shocked, particularly.

Er, because so far as anyone knows, he’s done nothing at all substantive to cause anyone to be killed? How many US soldiers would you say have been killed due to one mook’s blathering on an Internet message board?

Again, I think we’re all quite clear on where most people stand on the DT issue. He has no standing, really.

162

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
His statement that is in question was that he hoped the Iraqis would manage to kill the American soldiers before the American soldiers killed them. He said nothing about a desire to harm or kill them himself.
[/quote]

Come on. Distinction without a difference. That’s like someone saying they hope the Klan kills all the gays in America, then you saying thats fine because they didn’t say they wanted to kill gays himself.

Pure sophistry.

163

[QUOTE=El_Kabong]
Er, because so far as anyone knows, he’s done nothing at all substantive to cause anyone to be killed? How many US soldiers have been killed due to one mook’s blathering on an Internet message board?

[/QUOTE]

How often has Der Trihs been physically beaten due to several mooks blathering about it on an Internet message board?

More sophistry.

164

[QUOTE=Lemur866]
Come on. Distinction without a difference. That’s like someone saying they hope the Klan kills all the gays in America, then you saying thats fine because they didn’t say they wanted to kill gays himself.

Pure sophistry.
[/QUOTE]

I have known people that have said that exact thing. I have never threatened to harm or kill them for saying it. I also didn’t say I thought it was fine.

As I said in the part of my post you did not quote…I am not saying I agree with his opinion, I find it and some of the reactions to it very disturbing.

165

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
I totally agree with this. It is very disenheartening to see a group of people whose opinions and intellect I otherwise respect (for the most part) devolve into promoting physical violence because of someones opinions. Reminds me of some of the telemarketing threads.
[/QUOTE]

It’s too bad that you see this as disheartening. Truly, this type of reaction is the essence of the kind of communication that we, as a group, are involved in. It shows without out a doubt that freedom has its’ limits. In as much as it seems counter-productive, the fact is that you can’t just say anything you want, where ever you want without there being consequences.

From yelling ‘fire’ in a crowded theater to picketing the funerals of war dead, the facts are that there are lines, when you cross those lines, (and those crossing them know they’re doing it) you may be forced to pay a price for your actions. It’s real-world truth vs. utopian idealism.

166

[QUOTE=Lemur866]
Well, it’s a bit hard to remain level headed when DER TRIHS is hoping for physical violence to happen to people you love, care about, or even just tolerate.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t think he wants physical violence to happen to anyone, but since it is happening, he wants it to happen to the people he feels are in the wrong–Americans–rather than people he feels are in the right. I sincerely doubt that DT was sitting around before the Iraq debacle began saying that he hoped all US troops would die.

American involvement in Iraq is getting Iraqis killed by the truckload. Americans are directly and indirectly killing Iraqis. He’d rather the Iraqis killed the Americans first.

I think it’s completely understandable. People on this board are reacting to the rarity of having someone not so bound up in nationalism that they root for their country even when that means hundreds of thousands of “other people” get killed.

As for this idea that he would be frightened to talk about this in person, there are places in this country where it’s unsafe to admit you’re gay, or an atheist, or a wiccan, or to shop at Target. If this were in person, I’d be afraid of half of you.

That’s the sort of attempts at intimidation this board is supposed to be above.

167

[QUOTE=buttonjockey308]
IIn as much as it seems counter-productive, the fact is that you can’t just say anything you want, where ever you want without there being consequences.
[/QUOTE]

The new Straight Dope motto: Shut up or someone will shut you up–since 2007.

168

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]

That’s the sort of attempts at intimidation this board is supposed to be above.
[/QUOTE]

I think the disconnect that this board provides is making you a tic naive.

Q. How do you remove an element of human nature from a discussion involving only humans?

A. You do not, you cannot and you will not.

Some humans here feel that a response to a provocation on the order that that DT guy needs to be visceral and violent. The proper and even liberal application of foot to ass in cases like this one are sometimes warranted.

There are times, like it or not, when you’ve just got to kick some guy’s ass to get the results you’re looking for, and the truth is, he knows it’s coming, being a provocateur, it comes with the territory.

169

[QUOTE=buttonjockey308]
There are times, like it or not, when you’ve just got to kick some guy’s ass to get the results you’re looking for, and the truth is, he knows it’s coming, being a provocateur, it comes with the territory.
[/QUOTE]

You and I obviously have very different outlooks on life. I will simply say that I completely disagree with you.

170

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
The new Straight Dope motto: Shut up or someone will shut you up–since 2007.
[/QUOTE]

Oh please…considering the discourse that has taken place on the SDMB in totality, a small group of people having the desire to throw Der Trisha a soap party doesn’t equate to the entire board being this visceral.

Do you seriously believe that there is complete freedom of speech?

171

[QUOTE=buttonjockey308]
There are times, like it or not, when you’ve just got to kick some guy’s ass to get the results you’re looking for, and the truth is, he knows it’s coming, being a provocateur, it comes with the territory.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and the gays have it coming, too, right? Well, there are a lot of people who say so. And if a woman gets raped, well, she had it coming. And if an abortion clinic gets bombed, well, they had it coming. And if Barack Obama gets death threats, well, he sure is uppity, that Half-Rican American, yuk yuk.

If it makes me naive not to defend thuggery, then I’m naive.

If the only argument you can make is Lucy Van Pelt’s five reasons, you’ve got nothing.

172

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
You and I obviously have very different outlooks on life. I will simply say that I completely disagree with you.
[/QUOTE]

I can respect that. Still, what’s true is true.

173

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
Yeah, and the gays have it coming, too, right? Well, there are a lot of people who say so. And if a woman gets raped, well, she had it coming. And if an abortion clinic gets bombed, well, they had it coming. And if Barack Obama gets death threats, well, he sure is uppity, that Half-Rican American, yuk yuk.

If it makes me naive not to defend thuggery, then I’m naive.

If the only argument you can make is Lucy Van Pelt’s five reasons, you’ve got nothing.
[/QUOTE]

Jinkes, you ARE that naive, aren’t you.

Here’s a freedom of speech test for you…

Come to Chicago. Take a cab to 63rd and Stony Island. Get out of the cab, put on a Klansmans hood and hang an ‘I hate niggers’ sign (ala die hard3) from your neck.

See what happens.

My bet? Your freedom of speech, along with most of your brains, will be left in a puddle on the sidewalk.

Another one…

Still in Chicago, take a cab to the North Halsted district, hang a different sign saying ‘I hate fags’ from your neck. Odds are, you’ll catch the same kind of beating.

And, you’ll have it coming.

It’s REAL life.

174

[QUOTE=buttonjockey308]
Do you seriously believe that there is complete freedom of speech?
[/QUOTE]

Legal repercussions and social repercussions for speech are one thing. Some things are illegal. Some things won’t win you many friends.

Violence is something different. You’ve got no right to it. You don’t get to hurt me for talking or being or worshiping or dressing or looking or fucking some way you don’t like.

175

[QUOTE=buttonjockey308]
It’s REAL life versus what we WISH would be.
[/QUOTE]

You’re arguing out of both sides of your mouth. You’re saying that people deserve what they get, and then claiming “Oh, that’s just real life.”

I know there are thugs in the world. I don’t choose to join them. You do, and then claim you have no choice.

176

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
I totally agree with this. It is very disenheartening to see a group of people whose opinions and intellect I otherwise respect (for the most part) devolve into promoting physical violence because of someones opinions. Reminds me of some of the telemarketing threads.
[/QUOTE]

It’s not so much because of his opinions. I’m one of his sharpest critics, and I think Iraq is a clusterfuck. We had no business invading. Invading was a political decision. Soldiers do what politicians tell them to do, within the bounds of the law. A soldier that kills an enemy on the battlefield is not a murderer. Were the soldier less skillful or less fortunate, the enemy would have killed him first.

**Der Trihs ** comments cross the line with me, because I read them as:

“I want Oakie’s relatives to get killed because they are murderous military scum”.

My objection is twofold: 1) I object to someone wishing my relatives to be killed; and 2) I object to my relatives being called murderous scum. Given the immediate opportunity, it is likely that I would express those objections in a physical way.

In my jurisdiction, simple assault carries a fine of up to $1500 and/or up to six months in the county jail. If I was convicted, I’d expect to pay a fine, but serve no time (clean record, respected member of the community, severe provocation, yadda yadda). At least one Judge I know would probably fine me $50, and then tell the story on me at CLE seminars for years to come.

Yes, popping him would be a bad thing. A misdemeanor offense with potentially embarassing and inconvenient consequences. I shouldn’t oughta do that kind of thing.

My point was that he would never make a statement like that near anyone likely to call him on it. It’s very easy to hide behind a keyboard and type his garbage. It’s not so easy to say it to someone face to face.

177

[QUOTE=buttonjockey308]
There are times, like it or not, when you’ve just got to kick some guy’s ass to get the results you’re looking for, and the truth is, he knows it’s coming, being a provocateur, it comes with the territory.
[/QUOTE]

Wrong. You attempt an intelligent exchange of ideas. Failing that, you agree to disagree. Failing that, you simply ignore the idiot.

Ironic it’s the infantryman who needs to point out that indescriminate violence is never the answer to anything. It’s certainly not the answer to Mr trihs’s diatribe.

178

[QUOTE=Gary Kumquat]
Me: “He said he’d rather US troops died than the people of Iraq. Fuck it, I can agree with the sentiment.”

[/QUOTE]
That is a baudlerized version of his sentiment. You can continue to claim that it is his, but you are incorrect. It may be your sentiment, but it is not his. Why is this so difficult for you to grasp? I have shown you his statement. Do you contend that it is the same as yours? Where, in your statement, is contempt? Where, in your statement, is hatred? Where, in your statement, is the judgment of all enlistees as fools and scum?

You either backed the wrong horse, or you are a mealy-mouthed chickenshit insane idiot. Just like your asshole buddy. I’m going with option 2. Actually, they are both option 2. Fuck off and take an extremely long time to draw your last excruciating breath. Whenever it may come.

179

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
You’re arguing out of both sides of your mouth. You’re saying that people deserve what they get, and then claiming “Oh, that’s just real life.”

I know there are thugs in the world. I don’t choose to join them. You do, and then claim you have no choice.
[/QUOTE]

No, I’m saying those who provoke know they’re provoking, and should bear no surprise when the extreme end of the reaction scale bites their ass.

I have a choice, so do they, so do we all, but you have to know, going into it, that this is a possiblity, and that IS real life.

180

[QUOTE=Oakminster]
It’s very easy to hide behind a keyboard and type his garbage. It’s not so easy to say it to someone face to face.
[/QUOTE]

You know what else is easy to hide behind a keyboard and do? Threaten people.