Did Pelosi just un-invite Trump from the State of the Union?

That’s not what I’m thinking. What I’m thinking is that some people in this country are rational, and some are irrational, and that as a result, some value power for its own sake, and some instead value it as a way to make the world better. Which group are you in?

I think people should use power responsibly.

Donald Trump is, by his very nature, incapable of responsibility. (No need to discuss his use of power specifically.) So I presume you’re in favor of his removal from office at Congress’ earliest convenience. :slight_smile:

Not at all. Still need to fill Ginsburg’s seat. Plus I don’t think removing Trump is responsible or good politics. 2020 is coming soon enough.

Serious question: if Trump had indeed directed Cohen to lie to Congress, and the charge is well substantiated, would you support his removal from office?

I’m not interested in debating the news from yesterday, just a question of your level of support for Trump.

Seeing as I didn’t vote for Trump and think he’s a bit of a clown I’m not sure if I support Trump per se. I do support Republican control of the Senate and presidency because that leads to control of the courts which unfortunately we have allowed to become too powerful. It’s a conundrum.

Removal for Cohen stuff? I haven’t really been following that tbh.

Yeah, didn’t figure you meant it very much. :slight_smile:

We’re less than halfway through his term. :rolleyes:

If I’m reading you right, you don’t really like Trump, but you would have to think about whether he should be removed for ordering someone to lie to Congress to cover up his (Trump’s) connections to Russia?

I’m not trying to misrepresent you; I’m asking if that’s a fair summary of what you posted. I think it is, but I’m not totally sure.

As I said I don’t know enough to comment. But with regards to presidents or other politicians lying? That’s what they do. Do I like it? No. But there is a lot I don’t like and cannot hope to change.

Thank you for the response.

ETA: would you have supported removal of Clinton or Nixon?

A younger more partisan version of myself might have jumped on the bandwagon concerning Clinton. Actual perjury is a serious problem. At this point in time, I think the constant persecution of Clinton was problematic. I also have a problem with Garland never having a vote. I think we have become hyper partisan which leads to existential vulnerabilities.

Nixon? Yeah. That watergate nonsense meant impeachment proceedings were reasonable.

A ‘serious problem’. ‘Problematic’. ‘A problem’.

So multiple problems.

But none of these are problems that you won’t tolerate.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

You support criminality provided you personally benefit from it? And then you wonder why people have a low opinion of Republicans?

Should we rename threads when they stray a certain distance from the topic?

Or maybe we design one of those “Whole New Look!” labels:
New and Improved! *
Was* Pelosi and Trump, NOW it’s just octopus!
Yes, dear posters, it’s yet another thread where we foolishly keep poking him with the Stick of Knowledge,
only to be thwarted by the Tentacles of Contradiction. Come on in, the fallacies are fine!

I’m against criminality. I’m against Trump. And most of the time I’m against punishment. I think low punishment societies have less criminality.

Look at Illinois. Governor after governor was punished, and the next one was still corrupt.

If Bill Clinton had been removed from office, would DJT be a better president? YMMV, but I think this is laughable. Did Nixon being forced out make Trump better?

Now, you could argue that removing Trump from office isn’t so much a punishment as a removal, of one individual, from an environment were there is great temptation to commit misdeeds. Looking for an analogy, maybe Bernie Madoff shouldn’t have been locked up, but at least he should have lost his investment advisor license. That’s my view. But the problem, in the DJT case, is that the replacement for Trump isn’t an average President. It’s Mike Pence. I read the book just linked, and Pence sounds like a much worse than average president. And I think that if Trump is removed from office this year, the GOP chances next year are increased.

There is no safe way to get out from under the risks that come with having elected a President who talks like a dictator. But I think trying to vote him out next year has the best risk/reward profile.

That’s some creative reading and creative assertions you have.

It’s apparently been a creative thread on both sides.

Meanwhile, back on topic. The Republican Speaker of the Michigan House of Reps has invited trump to come to Lansing and give the SOTU speech there.

What a grandstanding maroon.

I apologize for being too blunt in my entirely accurate description of your statement.

Do not personalize your arguments in this fashion. If you feel you must, the Pit is right around the corner.