Re-reading this thread, I should point out that honestly, remembering the night/person I was referring to in the OP (who I met exactly once), I don’t think I was hoping to get lucky by hanging out with Mr Pussy Magnet as much as my friend was. It would have been shortly after I got divorced and I was probably still all broken-hearted about that. In fact I was very paranoid about unintended pregnancy (being thankful I didn’t have kids with my ex and being able to make a clean break) and had turned down offers for sex (with women I already knew) for that reason. My ex was likely considered out of my league and I stumbled into a relationship with her, although that was after being friends first. It was just amazing to me that someone that had I been gay or a woman, I don’t think I would have given a second look to could be so successful with finding partners. Remember, it wasn’t just that one occasion, according to my friend that knew him pretty well, it was everywhere, all the time. I also want to add that the whole being able to start and carry on a conversation with women without hinting at hooking up is not something I’ve ever felt like I had a problem with. It’s kind of my M.O. despite never working for me. I definitely didn’t start this thread looking for advise for myself. I guess I was just reflecting back on guys I’ve known that for some reason I couldn’t see, just seemed to have a “vibe” or “animal magnetism”. I can think of two guys I knew who did as well or better than PM guy (despite being misogynistic assholes) but they had looks and money.
I don’t believe this for a second. While it seems nitpicky, the ‘fucked a pile of stones’ comment is really telling - did any of them actually take a pile of stones home? Because it’s easy enough to have a pile of stones and no one looking, so they should have been happily fucking stones in their private homes if that was a true statement, but I’m willing to bet that they didn’t. What they really did was bemoan their situation using heavy doses of hyperbole, put little to no effort into finding sex partners, and try to blame their problems on the unfairness of the world or some other issue.
Some examples: How many homeless women did they try to pick up? Because picking up homeless men is what you’re expecting women to do with the ‘dangerous, dirty, and broke’ comment. How many sex workers did they try to hire in their desperation? Because that’s a lot cheaper than dealing with letting a dangerous, dirty, and broke person stay in your house for a ‘short time’ that turns into a long time. How often were they at a bar at closing time just going around saying ‘want to come home with me’ to whatever women were left around? I’m guessing they did not make their availability known to anyone who might be interested. Just how many passes did they make in general? Because sitting around hoping for pussy to fall into your lap is not generally successful, and I doubt these guys actually contacted even as small a number as 100 women over their two lonely decades (that’s less tan one every two months).
The fact that you’re willing to count a woman hooking up with a dangerous, dirty, broke person as an option for getting laid, but not a guy paying a prostitute a small sum in a simple transaction indicates a really, really different lower bar that you’re pretending is the same. And I’ve seen these guys who are supposedly ‘available to anyone’ turn down invitations from women and generally fail to live the ‘available to anyone’ - if you’re going to whine ‘ohh too old’ when approached by a woman in her 50s or ‘ohh too fat’ at someone with bit of a muffin top, you can’t also say that you’re open to anyone.
I have a cousin who’s goofy as an outhouse rat, has a scrawny, lanky body, face like a toad, and a severe allergy to work. Yet he has always had women up the ying yang. I saw girls fighting over him on several occasions. I don’t know what he has but he should bottle it.
The football guys in high school got the cheerleaders. I was an un-athletic 6’4" and was swarmed by anxious girls under 5’5". Go figure. Meanwhile, there’s an old joke:
A fellow sees a guy at his bar, a froggy-looking little dork, who always leaves with a beautiful woman.
The fellow asks the barkeep, “What’s with this? What’s his secret?”
The barkeep replies, “I dunno, he just sits there all night, licking his eyebrows.”
Ka-CHING!
No it isn’t.
I submit as evidence the fact that you don’t see a lot of male prostitutes on the streets being picked up by women desperate to get laid.
You mean Fred Garvin wasn’t real?
Why would that be evidence of anything more than that many women either would be afraid of doing so, and/or wouldn’t expect to get off that way anyway?
Again, if there’s any genuine difference here, I expect it’s between men thinking ‘any sex is better than no sex’ and women thinking ‘bad sex can be much, much worse than no sex.’ And men very often don’t act in practice as if they think any sex is better than no sex – for themselves, at least.
Perhaps it’s evidence that women can have sex anytime they want so they don’t have to resort to prostitutes on the street?
Well sure, if the argument is changing to “good sex that leads a person to orgasm” you might have a point.
Doesn’t the existence of prostitutes on the street accepting money indicate that men can have sex anytime they want? I mean, the prostitutes are right there ready to take money for sex, a basic monetary transaction doesn’t seem like rocket surgery to me.
Yes, myself and my best buddy. Overweight, not handsome. Neither rich, nor fancy cars. Not really "bad boys’ altho some rep for a little risky behaviour (Heavy weapons fighting in the SCA, etc). He was known as a man who would support you- no matter what you did, I was apparently endearing for being nice and my sense of humor. *“He makes me laugh”. *
And we got laid- *a lot. * From 9’s and 10’s even. Until we settled down.
So this crap from “Incels” is just that-* crap*. Shower daily (maybe even twice on hot days, and dont use Axe for crikiessake). Be clean. Dont dress sloppy. Have a job. Listen to women, become a good listener*. All those things are easy, but yeah, lose weight, hit the gym, etc, the usual advice. Those are harder,* but are not necessary.*
- advice for younger men: when a woman goes on a rant, she is venting. Make little noises of support "that’s terrible’, “I am so sorry” “anything I can do?”. You are not there to offer solutions, unless it’s “Can I kill that guy for you?” type of thing. Listen. Do not make her venting about you, it’s her way of letting off steam.
Yep- all yep, yep and hell yes.
Double post.
This is the one that lots of guys really fail hard on - you see it in threads like this where guys insist that their idea of what getting laid is like for women must be true, even when there are accounts from women that contradict their head cannon on what female dating/hooking up/etc is like.
One of my college roommates, actually. Looking back, a lot of the reasons I took him on as a roommate are the same things that made him attractive to women. Goofy sense of humor, but smart and could balance both qualities in a conversation; absolutely average looking, and not afraid to just start talking to any person under any casual circumstances and not skeevy about it–he’s the guy who can make a funny observation to someone in the grocery store or cafeteria line and continue about his business without needing or demanding a response. Basically, it was apparent he was smartish, kindish, had a pulse, and spoke English. Nothing more, just that.
As I’ve grown older I’ve learned a few things. Lots of folks are smart, lots are kind, and not many are both. There are a lot of 18+ old brats of both genders walking around, same with dummies. He was getting “action” because he was meeting and beating what I’ve come to realize is a very low standard of “decent human being”. It’s almost as if–and work with me here–women wanna screw, but they don’t want to hang out with a jerk who is generally unpleasant to be around. I think the reason so many guys get confused is that they think there’s more of a game to it, aside from using 2-3 minutes to make the point that you are a decent human being. Maybe better, even, but at least that. AND, that women who present as “pretty” are no more likely to be decent human beings that their highly attractive male counterparts; and just as likely to feel entitled, owing to the deference they’re accustomed to getting based on their looks.
I kind of feel like looking more “dangerous, dirty, and broke” might have gotten your friends laid more often.
Also, it doesn’t really work that way. It’s not like there are opposing “scales” where a female “2” will pair off with a male “2” because they know they are both 2s. “Getting laid” involves meeting someone where there is a potential mutual attraction and then executing a series of various “courting rituals” to make a connection that eventually escalates into sex. I would argue that the lower once goes down on the “scale”, the more ignorant and inept they are at those various behaviors. Ultimately, preventing them from having sex with ANYONE, regardless of how attractive or unattractive they are. Maybe for a certain percentage of guys, they are so inherently desirable that a certain type of woman will through themselves at them. But for most guys, it is a complex process of trial and error.
Here’s the thing. No woman wants to feel like the “bag of rocks” some troglodyte is wiling to bring home. So “lowering your standards” isn’t really an effective strategy.
I prefer to say- in the spirit of Groucho Marx- “I wouldn’t want to be with anyone who would settle for someone like me.”
My guess is the illegality of it might put a lot of guys off. I didn’t think “Sure, I can have sex any time I want, as long as I commit a crime” was part of the topic.
I thought little enough of myself already; the idea that I had to pay to get someone to have sex with me would have just been too much.
And perhaps it isn’t. Again, you’re silently invoking the double standard in which “can have sex” means “can have sex that’s worth having” to men, but means “can have sex that’s probably not worth having and very likely involves fear for one’s safety” to women. You have shown zero evidence that sex that’s actually satisfying and non-threatening is in fact more readily available to women than to men.
That’s not really “changing” the argument. That’s the kind of sex that men are assuming they’re going to get when they’re looking for sex, after all.
If men’s average sexual experiences were as unfulfilling as women’s average sexual experiences are, men would probably be a lot less interested in trying to get laid than they currently are.
:dubious: But you thought “Sure, I can have sex any time I want, as long as I accept that it will be more likely than not to be unsatisfying and high-risk” was part of the topic, at least as it applied to women.
I think you need to do a better job of defining exactly what you mean by “can have sex”, and trying to make your definition more consistent across gender boundaries. You seem to think that sexual situations that “might put a lot of guys off” (e.g., because they involve illegal behavior such as soliciting prostitution) don’t really “count” when it comes to assessing the availability of sex for men. But you blithely assume that sexual situations that put a lot of women off (e.g., because they’re unsatisfying and/or unsafe) still “count” when it comes to assessing the availability of sex for women.
You brought it up with your claim that “Because most women can easily find sex partners regardless of what they look like” and the later claim “that women can have sex anytime they want so”. Any woman who is married and who’s husband is not available for sex for whatever reason (is traveling, is deployed, is not interested, is sick, is in jail) can only have sex by committing adultery, which is a criminal offense in 19 states and significant civil offense in others. In seven states and DC, any woman who is not married and has sex is committing the crime of Fornication. (Fornication laws probably are invalid under 2003’s Lawrence v Texas, but with the Trump changes to the Supreme Court it’s questionable whether that will continue to be the law of the land). So for lot of women, ‘having sex any time they want’ explicitly requires committing a crime.
Further, prostitution is not always a crime - there are places where prostitution is explicitly legal (notably Nevada), or where only certain types of prostitution is illegal, or where only a limited subset of sex acts are illegal. And it’s generally a minor misdemeanor, on par with things like underage drinking or marijuana use, which generally are not considered completely impossible. Studies show that approximately 15-20% of men in the US have used the services of a prostitute: https://prostitution.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004119
And on the flip side, women have been arrested simply for carrying condoms and wearing a short skirt in New York City (not exactly some unknown backwater), so if part of their finding sex partners involves using protection against STDs and dressing sexy, they might well be arrested even if what they’re doing is not technically illegal. Police Arrest Women for Carrying Condoms
So as far as I can tell, you’re expecting women to engage in risky, illegal, and/or arrestable conduct but categorically rejecting the idea that men do the same thing. And this is even though 15-20% of men have engaged in said illegal activities.