I didn’t say it was “just a hug.” I’ve already said repeatedly that I think this asshole is out of line. But again, the mods told us to stop talking about it.
I didn’t see that. I’ll say no more.
ETA: Sorry, I didn’t see the mod note.
And they wonder why people don’t report rape!!!
I’m a “victim” … I know it is one of my many personality faults - it is pretty easy to see in people. I believe he also picks on me because I’m single and I’m “polite” - in others words … not going to tell him to f-off! Interestingly he hugged a number of his nieces … there was more than one protest at various levels - the one that protested the most, got the worst hug.
I’m sorry … but you really believe this?!
For those who wanted further details on how he has touched me just to make sure he’s really being inappropriate and I’m not lying or misinterpretting his behaviour … whilst I don’t live in the USA … the social norms for touching I’d say are fairly similar … body parts you do NOT touch on friends would be about exactly the same … and I’m not going into details of how much I know about HIS body parts from them being shoved against me!
And for the record - I have said no … I have said no many many times … I have said “no don’t touch me” … “no” … “don’t come near me” … “please stop” … “go away” … “I don’t like that” … “keep your hands off” … and many other variations of NO! The little girl was saying no too … yes, I heard the word “no” … admittedly whilst she was doing that giggle (the one I interpretted (rightly or wrongly) to be the same as mine used to be with him - uncomfortable/hysterical/not of humour/distressed).
Thank you to those who have been very supportive! Only the fact that this has caused me such distress has allowed me to post this kind of information on the internet. I’ve tried discussing this with friends - I think most people feel so uncomfortable talking about this stuff themselves that it gets brushed off (see the other topic about Women and sexual assault and how many of us do NOT talk about this even with friends) and do not go into fine details. I’ve gathered a lot of information from the responses (and I hope like hell I’m never raped and have to defend my experience).
Taking things forward …
Phone call done … I spoke to my friend (his wife for those not following) … I’d say she was fairly shocked. She hardly responded … I shook the entire phone call. I began by saying that she knew I’ve been uncomfortable with him touching me for a long time, I’d had enough of feeling threatened around him and that I wasn’t willing to be near him again - she said he didn’t mean it, he’s just “friendly” and she’s asked him to stop many times. I also explained that I was worried about his behaviour with his nieces and that they were in the same position I have been in for years, unable to stop him touching them in ways they didn’t like. I said that any future invitations to meet up did not include him but I’d like to keep her friendship - she confirmed that I never wanted to see him again. She ended by saying that she’d still like to keep our next lunch meet up (organised to be without him already).
Whilst I feel awful for saying such things to my friend (shall put that down as one of the worst phone calls of my life) … I feel very relieved that at least I MAY have done something for that poor little girl (and her cousins).
I have to say - I would be interested to know how she deals with this information (I doubt I’ll ever have the guts to ask or bring up the subject again) … I wouldn’t be surprised if Mr Groper tries to defend himself and promise for it to never happen again … no, I’m not going to fall for that!!
Well done, Miss_Gnomer - it takes guts to have a conversation like that, and you did it well. Your friend has now been told very clearly that you don’t want to see her husband ever again, you are still friends and having lunch, she knows to look out for the girls in the family. I’d call that a complete success, and I’m proud of you for having the courage to do it. (Not that some random internet stranger’s compliments are worth much, I realise 
)
ETA: It’s possible that she will carry on trying to persuade you it was all an accident, and he didn’t mean it. Even if that were so (which it isn’t), you’re allowed to choose who you see socially. Don’t let her bully you into giving him another chance - he’s had many and fucked it up each time. Life’s too short to spend time where you know you’re going to be miserable.
I’ve been lurking in this thread and shaking my head many times at some of the responses. (I wonder on what planet someone must live to believe that an individual who grabs a woman’s hand and kisses it during the exchange in the midst of a church service could possibly be doing anything other than attempting to assert power over her.)
Miss_Gnomer, you do have support amongst many of us here. Well-done for speaking up to your friend. I hope you can remain friends under the circumstances you’ve outlined. I don’t know how she’ll handle this with her husband; I only hope he doesn’t attempt to contact you himself and somehow talk you out of the stance you’ve rightfully taken.
If it were me, I would simply say “I have no interest in talking to you…goodbye.” Believe me, he knows what he’s doing…to you, to the little girl, to everyone else. He needs more wake-up calls like the one you’ve now given.
Good for you ** Miss_Gnomer**. 
Er, yeah. What’s so weird about that? She’s saying that anyone who won’t stop touching someone else who protests/doesn’t like it is a bad person. Isn’t that something that you of all people, with your history of unwanted touch, would get on board with?
Miss_Gnomer:
I am sorry for all the people who are interrogating you in this thread. Your story sounds pretty clear to me. Namely, the guy is a boundary-pusher, and knows just how much he can get away with. I mean, the hand-kissing is Rush-Limbaugh-level sneakiness. It’s just weird enough to squick you out, and just normal enough to not seem weird to outsiders. Brilliant!
I am truly sorry that you are a “polite victim.” I’ve had friends like you, and I always wished I could just give them some magic potion that would change them, but I know there isn’t one. If you can find therapy for this, please consider it. You deserve better.
Finally, congratulations for being selfless enough to overcome your own societal niceties long enough to stand up for the 10-year-old. I know it was very hard for you. I don’t know all the particulars of your situation, but please keep doing whatever you can to protect any children this man targets.
Yeah, Gnomer. You did the right thing.
Your friend probably knows her husband acts inappropriately. There may be some level of denial that she’s existing in, but it doesn’t sound like it has completely blinded her. Otherwise, she’d probably stridently come to his defense everytime you voiced your concerns about him, instead of just offering the rather weak “he’s just being friendly” excuse. The fact that she doesn’t do this is kind of revealing.
Maybe you have planted some seeds in my mind and she’ll start taking a good, hard look at the man she’s married to. She’s probably half-convinced herself that she shouldn’t be bothered by his behavior, when in actuality it bothers her a lot. How many of us would be cool with a man who is so kissy and huggy with a friend that they complain about it?
Who wonders that?
Does this mean that you believe that it IS a decent thing to continue to touch people after they’ve been told to stop? I can’t even comprehend your response to that. He was saying that only sick assholes will touch after being told “no!”
So you’re taking a stand to never be in his presence again? That’s good news. Stick to your guns- don’t give this guy any more chances.
You’ve probably done nothing to help them. Your friend sounds like she’s been enabling his actions for a long time now. I doubt she’ll contact the little girls’ parents to tell them that her husband might be groping them.
Considering how you’ve described her it’s unlikely she’ll do anything with this information. I mean, you’ve had this talk with her before, haven’t you? You’ve told her that he touches you? And yet she continues to defend his actions to the end by saying that he’s “just being friendly.” Nothing is going to change. While I’m glad that you’re going to stop allowing yourself to be subjected to his behavior, the point of the thread is the little girl. Nothing has changed for her. I hope for her sake that you are misinterpreting his actions.
Well done for making such a difficult call!
Good for you, MissGnomer. You did what you could for the nieces but you have to take care of yourself, first.
Why do you have to do that? Even when you’re being “supportive” you still have to take a little shit like that.
MissGnomer that is awesome! I’m so proud of you.
Oh, you thought he was being supportive? I didn’t get that impression, given the rest of his post.
AClockworkMelon, given that the call was hard enough to make in the first place even as a basic step to protect herself, do you really think it helps matters - or, for that matter, encourages the OP to stand up for herself next time - by telling her that the call was essentially useless, with gems like “You’ve probably done nothing to help them.” and “Nothing is going to change.”
Even if you’re right (and I’m not sure you are - pointing out that children are affected has changed people’s minds about what they can tolerate before now), what else could the OP do? She’s done everything she can reasonably be expected to, and she deserves support for doing something difficult, not being knocked because she hasn’t managed to work a fucking miracle.
This thread makes me want to start trying to kiss men’s hands. Just to see how they would respond. I am a sucker for a man kissing my hand, by the way.
I have been reading this thread with interest, as I am ashamed to admit I don’t know what I would do about the little girl. I would like to believe that I could say to the parents of the little girl, “I hope this doesn’t cost me my friendship with my homegirl, but I have had issues with the way dude touches me when I don’t want to be touched. Please be sure that your little girl doesn’t have those same issues with him.”
First, I think it’s completely sickening that a person would continue to do something like this and not one of the onlookers (including his wife) is horrifyingly offended. It’s sad and I definitely think you did the right thing to have a serious conversation with your friend.
The fact is, you said no several times. If you are going to continue to associate with him (tangentially, and even then, I don’t think you should), I think you need to make a scene the next time he does something. Actually, I think that you should refrain from any contact with him - act like he’s a leper.
If he reaches for your hand in Church, refuse to give it to him.
I’ve never been in such a situation, so I don’t know how much of a struggle it would be for you to do so - but you have to stand up for yourself. This must stop.
What you did here was the right thing and you should be proud of yourself for how much guts and courage it took to call your friend up.
Your friend is rationalizing (“friendly”??), but that’s her problem - it’s no longer yours (it appears).
That’s one of the problems with abuse - the abusee is often the one that feels guilty.
Hopefully this will enable your friend to be vigilant in protecting the children. Is there any way you can get in contact with their parents?
You should bring it up again. It will probably be hard - but you have to, in order to ensure that she doesn’t just sweep it under the rug.
Because people WITH lots of sense and decency do this - sense/decency are not an all or nothing kinda thing. He has a lot of sense - he knows not to grope his brothers’ wives … he has a level of decency - he’s approaches me with his wife around … yet he still does nasty behaviours when he’s been told to stop.
If you met this man - most people would probably like him. His sense and decency are just very misplaced at times … but are certainly there for the world to see.
The statement seemed to say (to me) … that only nasty horrible bad men (who are really easy to pick, they don’t stop when you say no) are the ones that do this … nope … “nice” family men, church leaders, school teachers and neighbour do THIS!
If the little girl ever tried to speak to her parents … I would suspect the first thing she would be told would be how nice this man is and how he’d never do anything bad to her - that she had nothing to worry about … because of his sense/decency.
You’re actually defending the idea that decent people can grope others against their will? You and I have very different ideas on what constitutes decency.
This guy may have the sense not to do it, but he’s certainly not decent. As you say, it’s “nice” people who do it–nice in scare quotes. I interpreted it as even if the person seems nice, if they’re groping you against your will, they’re assholes.