We were just talking about something similar to this over in this thread. It may have some relevant info to your situation.
There are clerks at stores I go to who yell at the top of their voices for absolutely no reason, and often bustle at full bore, making a show of how important their errand is. I complain to the checkout clerks, but they usually just roll their eyes because they know the one I mean.
Can you tape record him next time he yells? Maybe he doesn’t realize how awful he sounds and playing it back for him later on, when everyone’s calm, will help.
Please approach this situation with caution, purple haze. What you’ve described may be one step from becoming more physical. (Lack of respect of your physical space by getting that close to you during a heated argument, the finger in the face, telling you to “deal with it”, etc.) If you do try to turn and walk away while he’s in this state, he may very well react by grabbing you or otherwise attempting to detain you or get his point across. If possible, try to walk away before it gets to this point.
I would second those here (and yourself) who suggested marriage counseling. If he won’t go, then go for yourself. A good counselor will give you tools that you can use, even if the other person doesn’t have the same or similiar tools.
All of the other tools suggested here (sticking with “I” statements) may be good suggestions, but I think your relationship with your husband may be past that point and may need something prior to those type of levels of communication.
The problem, I think, is that he does; or does he also do it with people he can’t exert control over - his boss, or a traffic cop? In my experience people who “lose their tempers” permit themselves to express their anger only in certian circumstances: and thus they do have control over themselves, they just choose to apply it selectively.
The whole shoving himself in your face while pointing and shouting, well, that’s frankly physical intimidation - it’s bullying - and you should not put up with it. If you’ve asked him to stop and he still persists, that’s worrying: he’s bullying you because he can even though he knows what effect it’s having.
This sounds as if it has a nasty potential to escalate physically, and you need to take a stand now: I second the idea of calling in some kind of counsellor or mediator, if telling him directly hasn’t worked, but he needs to know that this behaviour must stop or there’ll be consequences for him.
No-one in any relationship should have to put up with that kind of shit: it’s scary, and it’s borderline abusive. Wheel out the big guns now, before you end up in hospital with a black eye and broken ribs.
Bolding mine.
[new age crap that I have actually found to work voice]
Your more than halfway there…he can’t “make” you feel anything you don’t choose to. As long as you believe he is “making” you that way, though, you won’t be able to choose differently.
[/nactihaftwv]
Absolutely. If he’s not controlling himself, who is? Aliens pointing their mind control at him? He is CHOOSING to be angry and abusive. My husband has pointed out that he might have poor impulse control, never having learned how to control his temper. That is a learned skill, though - he hasn’t had enough motivation to learn it yet.
I agree. He is at his most dangerous if you change the behaviour patterns and he feels he is losing control of the situation and you. I would also suggest you confront him with a mediator present. We never want to believe that our loved one could get that out of control with us, but it happens every day.
You can’t control or change him, but you can change yourself. Your goal is to change yourself and your behaviour enough to motivate him to change. What would do it? What would motivate him to learn to control his temper?
Lots of good advice in this thread.
I too have some concerns about his lack of respect for you and his manipulation of violence in order to get his own way. Please, please, please make sure others know about it. Don’t hide that he goes into rages out of some misplaced embarrassment. At worst all that will come of it is that he will be shamed in front of his friends and family. At best, it could save your life.
Not so much YouTube, but just as a permanent record in case you need it. I split from my ex in an extremely nasty and acrimonious separation, and her family, all of whom I really like as sensible,decent, and kind people, now think I am the devil himself. I am out of contact with them, and they only ever hear her twisted side of the story. I am kicking myself for not ever having gotten a video record of my ex in one of her blind, screaming banshee rages with our son, aged seven, cowering in a corner. I’d love to send her brothers and sisters a DVD of one of those episodes with a simple note: “draw your own conclusions.”
I wouldn’t agree with posting anything to the net though.
Dog, my husband would commiserate with you. He dated an unstable manic-depressive for a while (too long, he says), and she beat him and called the police. He was the one bleeding, but he was the one who got stuck in the back of the police car and charged with assault because no one has ever heard of a woman beating a man, apparently. :rolleyes:
There is a lot of sensible advice here, and I am listening to all of you. I will walk away when things get like that. This last time did scare me. He seemed to be restraining himself from physically attacking me. I actually called his mom and told her what was happening. Of course, I got some advice on how to be a better wife :rolleyes: but she is 75 now and also a trifle hard of hearing. It was hard for either of us to tell her what was going on. Hearing his mom’s voice worked to calm him down.
This morning I also called my mom and told her what’s been going on with the out of control yelling. She was surprised. My SIL knows because her husband and my husband are brothers. She almost left him because of his temper (among other things).
Right now DH and I aren’t talking. I’m not sure what’s in his head right now, but I don’t think he is sorry or feels like he did anything wrong. I’ve told him many times how I hate the yelling, and how will our son turn out? I feel that he has no intention of ever stopping. I’m sure it feels good to yell and vent his frustration on me, not only for what he’s angry at me about, but his anger at things that happen at work, or whatever else.
His dad yells. He yells. What will our son be like to his wife?
Why it never occurred to me to walk away I don’t know. I’m also having issues with my 17 yo daughter - she is sweet to dad and rude to me. Husband has told me that is between us to figure out. I don’t need to “figure out” anything. It’s obvious what’s going on.
Sometimes I want to pack up the PB&J in a knapsack and run away.
I know I’m being presumptuous, but it sounds to me like you really need to get some immediate, real-life help for yourself now. Maybe you can get your husband to agree to counseling later, maybe you can get the whole family into therapy so that you can break the cycle, but right now it really sounds like you need to talk to someone who can help you start to make some changes. Please, today, look up “counseling” or “social services” in your Yellow Pages and start making phone calls. There are plenty of counseling services that charge on a sliding scale or are even free (especially when it comes to domestic violence, and that’s what this is).
The hardest part about getting help is convincing yourself that today is the day you need to call, and I’m hoping that me being arrogant enough to tell you what to do might give you that push. Today. Before it gets any worse.
Stockholm Syndrome - you know, when a hostage begins to sympathize with the captor and even helps them. Well, not exactly, but close, I suspect. My father-in-law has bipolar disorder, and chooses to do nothing about it because he loves the highs. When he’s on the high end of the slope, he acts like he’s the top dog in the world, and if you dare not support that wholeheartedly or disappoint him in someway, he could go into a screaming rage. My husband told me about having to sit for a couple hours or more of a yelling lecture about whatever his latest screw-up was, be it a bad grade or a quarrel with one of his sisters. (It got repetitious after a while, naturally, so if you dared not look like you were giving him your full attention, the screaming got even worse.) He would also occasionally use physical abuse but that wasn’t as common since my FIL typically got results by screaming. (He can’t keep up the sustained rage these days, but that’s because now he’s in his mid-70s, and he’s had a few mini-strokes that have taken some of the wind out of his sails.)
Anyway, the one SIL of mine who (last I heard) continues to this day to go to counseling over the abuse is also the one most likely to jump to her father’s defense if someone criticizes him, or to accuse her mother of being senile, etc. Reading about your daughter reminded me of this.
My totally unprofessional opinion (IANAP, though I did get my degree in psych and go on to graduate study in the field) is that your daughter has learned that he’s the one with the “power,” and she’s going to try to get on his good side because that’s the best place to be in her view of things. She might’ve also learned that you can be disrespected with impunity, by watching him. It might not even be conscious on her part.
Your son’s going to yell at his wife, and your daughter is going to find a man to yell at her. In my in-expert opinion. It’s not too late for any of you, but nothing will change if nobody does anything to change it.
I would bet that neither of your children respect you, because you’re not demanding respect from the man who should love you and never hurt you. Please find a way to remove yourself from this dangerous situation, and please do it very carefully. We’re all very worried for you.
It’s not that he “can’t” control his anger. It’s that he won’t.
People who feel the need to bully others when things don’t go their way are capable of changing their behavior. But they have to want to do it. It doesn’t sound like your husband wants to change, based on his statement that you need to “deal with it” when he treats you this way. He believes he is entitled to treat you that way.
But you can change your situation. You have a number of options open to you. And they’re all pretty tough roads to walk, whether you stay with him or you go.
I grew up with a father who yelled and bullied and raged. He treated (and still treats) my mother like his (verbal) punching bag. He doesn’t think there is anything wrong with this because he is not physically abusive. The result was that his four daughters, including me, do not date because we don’t understand how to relate to men, and we tend to assume that being in a relationship means the woman gets stomped on. (I’m in therapy to try to overcome it, my sisters are in denial about this.) Your children are learning a powerful lesson about how to treat their significant other, and it’s not a good one.
Furthermore, one of the things I did was to be a bullier and a rager myself. The only two options I saw for behavior were “bully” or “doormat.” And I didn’t want to be a doormat. Over time, though, I saw that I didn’t like the results of my bullying, and I worked hard to become more reasonable in arguments. I still have my moments, but now the people I argue with usually agree that I am rational and respectful during arguments.
But, like I said, he has to want to change. And if you want him to treat you differently, you have an obligation to yourself and your kids to lay down the law and tell him, firmly but calmly, “I will be treated with respect. That means you will not beller at me and you will not stick your finger in my face. When you are angry, you will argue with me constructively. You will work with me to find a solution. You will not verbally abuse me by saying cruel things that you know aren’t true. And if you refuse to do those things, then I will not interact with you. I will walk away and not have a discussion with you until you will treat me with respect. You need to change. I find the current situation unbearable. It hurts our relationship. There are times when I do not like you. If this continues, it will poison our marriage. That is why I think we need to see a counselor to help us figure out how to change. We both need to make an effort to change what is a very destructive pattern. I will not do this forever.”
I wish someone had been that clear and forthright with me. Of course, there is no guarantee of a positive result. In fact, he very likely will be angry with you over that, at least at first.
It’ll be hard as hell, but working to try to make it better is probably less miserable than accepting the status quo forever, or going through a divorce.
My best wishes to you.
I’m replying to let you all know that I picked up the phone this afternoon and called a marriage counselor. The woman I spoke with was so kind, and we have an appointment at 5:50 tomorrow. The counselor is a man and a PHD. The woman on the phone told me that he’s very laid back and easy going, and has a sense of humor. That sounds good to me!
I really don’t want to do this, but then again I’m looking forward to it. I have so much to say and this way I can say it without being drowned out.
When my husband got home from work today he seemed just fine - like nothing was wrong. It’s obvious he has no intention of apologizing. When I mentioned the appointment he clammed right up and got angry. I’ve mentioned doing this in the past and then never followed through.
Thanks for giving me ‘the Straight Dope’ and taking the time to say something. I don’t think I would have done anything (again). Last night I read and re-read some of the replies and at first I resisted what you were saying to me. There were too many responses for me to ignore.
Wish me luck tomorrow. With our insurance, 50 minutes will cost $45.
Bravo for doing something, and please, please carry through. He’ll probably resist going; I’m sure that going would be an “admission” that something’s wrong, and that’s tough regardless of what’s happening in one’s relationship.
Well done, purple haze - wishing you all the best, and hoping you can work through this.
I’m glad you moved forward and made an appointment. This was a really tough step, and you should be proud of yourself for doing it.
I have a few more points to add to all the good advice on this thread. IANAP, but I worked with victims of domestic violence through a hotline for several years. The way he dismisses your feelings is a red hot indicator.
Don’t be surprised if even having told your husband about the appointment triggers escalation. So far, all he’s had to do to keep you intimidated is to yell. Taking it “outside” may make him feel like he’s losing **control **(cause that’s what it’s all about, baby) and needs to increase his controlling behavior. I would suggest asking your new counselor straight out if he’s worked with victims of d.v. The strategies are very different when dealing with a potentially dangerous situation, and the counselor should be familiar with that. I would also suggest being pretty low key about your appointment(s) and what you talk about in them with your husband. Don’t throw in his face what the counselor says, etc. stay focused on what you need to do to protect yourself, emotionally and physically.
There’s a good book on controlling behavior in relationships you might want to check out. When Love Goes Wrong Your counselor may have other suggestions.
Please don’t hesitate to contact me if you want to discuss anything. And remember - you’re NOT alone.
I understand exactly what you are going through. I’ve been through it twice myself. Be completely open and honest with the counselors, they are there to help, not to judge. Do not hold back things to make yourself OR your husband look better. Be as open-minded as you can. It will be your first instinct to defend him and your relationship to these new people.
Email is in my profile and I’d be happy to talk to you myself. The counselors are your best choice, of course, but speaking with someone who knows how you feel is sometimes very comforting. 