Does this make me a homophobe (or prejudiced)?

[Love_Rhombus]

I wanted to get the feelings of the folks on here, because frankly there are a lot of smart people on here and I’m genuinely curious as to how I should feel about certian opinions I have about gays. Before I do that, let me say that to my knowledge I do not have any prejudices about or towards gays, hence the reason for this thread. That said, here I go:

I feel sorry for gay people for two reasons:

1. Not from a religious standpoint, like “They’re going to hell!”, but simply because they, like so many others, have to take all kinds of crap because of something that they have no control over. It also pisses me off when I hear about that type of discrimination.

2. Because, they are not able to physically have sex in the way that the body is built to do it. I’m not implying a “divine design” here, I’m just saying that I believe that people recieve the most physical pleasure from man-woman intercourse, and that I think it’s a shame (ok perhaps not the best word, but I couldn’t think of a better one) that gays and lesbians have diffirent urgings. Again, I’m not saying that a lesbian or a gay man is wrong or sinful or any of that crap in showing his or her partner his or her feelings by engaging in diffirent physical activities; I’m sure that whatever you do with your SO feels wonderful and demonstrates your emotions, and knock yourself out. I’m just saying that I wish it was another way so that everybody could enjoy whatever they want to do equally, but I don’t know what “other way” it could be.

Are either of these statements prejudical in any way? Also, this is all pretty “stream of consiousness” so bear with me; I’ll happly try to explain anything that seems unclear. I’m honestly curious. If this thread belongs elsewhere, feel free to move it. I’m a :wally

[Speaker_for_the_Dead]

I think it’s an interesting point of view, but don’t say it too loudly - people of any sexual orientation/race/sex/occupation can get offended at anything.

[scott_evil]

*Originally posted by Sam Hell *
I feel sorry for gay people for two reasons:

I accept your condolences. :rolleyes: Seriously, I don’t need anyone feeling sorry for me. My being gay is not some enormous pity-pot I sit on 24/7.

1. Not from a religious standpoint, like “They’re going to hell!”, but simply because they, like so many others, have to take all kinds of crap because of something that they have no control over. It also pisses me off when I hear about that type of discrimination.

It pisses me off that I could very well be bashed.

2. Because, they are not able to physically have sex in the way that the body is built to do it.

That’s never bothered me.

I’m not implying a “divine design” here, I’m just saying that I believe that people recieve the most physical pleasure from man-woman intercourse, and that I think it’s a shame (ok perhaps not the best word, but I couldn’t think of a better one) that gays and lesbians have diffirent urgings.

Ummm… anal intercourse can be extremely pleasurable for both parties. I’m a top, so I don’t get poked, but I love to poke. And I’ve had more than one partner who would absolutely go insane with pleasure by getting poked. Let me ask you: how does having male-female intercourse in and of itself stimulate the prostate? It’s been called the male G-spot.

I’m just saying that I wish it was another way so that everybody could enjoy whatever they want to do equally, but I don’t know what “other way” it could be.

Well, that would entail having only one gender as opposed to two, wouldn’t it? Hmmm… maybe that’s why sex between two people of the same sex is so pleasurable.

Are either of these statements prejudical in any way?

I wouldn’t say so (IMO) but they do show a lack of understanding (no offense).

If this thread belongs elsewhere, feel free to move it.

It’s more an IMHO or GD thread… IMHO

• s.e.

[Flamsterette_X]

*Originally posted by Speaker for the Dead *
**I think it’s an interesting point of view, but don’t say it too loudly - people of any sexual orientation/race/sex/occupation can get offended at anything. **

As an addendum to what Speaker has said: anybody can get offended at anything, no matter how gently or non-offensively you try to put it. Even if it’s couched in the most neutral terms so as not to give offense, you never know how some people will react.

[cher3]

I’m not sure I’d label those attitudes as either full-blown homophobia or prejudice, but they are the sorts of attitudes that can lead in that direction. Basically you’ve described an inability to believe that the experiences and emotions of others are valid just because they differ from yours.

Human beings of all orientations do all sorts of things, sexually, that the body wasn’t “built to do,” if you define that as male/female intercourse only. I think all that creativity suggests something, don’t you? Heck, I don’t get the most pleasure from male/female intercourse—and I’m straight.

I mean, really, does it also make you sad that the local ice cream shop carries flavors other than your favorite?
I’ll let actual gay people address the problems with your first point.

[Love_Rhombus]

No offense taken, I opened this thread to increase my understanding, and any progress towards that end is appreciated.

I should have reworded it slightly. I didn’t mean “feel sorry for= pity” but I’m not sure how to resay it in a way that won’t come out either unintentionally insulting or again, pitying.

And yes, I have a total lack of experience with anything other that male/female sex, and so can only speak from that standpoint. I wasn’t aware that anal sex could be as enjoyable as “regular sex”. Thank you for clarifying that. What I meant was that having thought that the only way I know was the best, I thought it a "shame (there’s that word again, sorry) that all consenting adults could not recieve the same amount of pleasure, regardless of their activities.

Thank you for correcting me.

[Love_Rhombus]

No offense taken, I opened this thread to increase my understanding, and any progress towards that end is appreciated.

I should have reworded it slightly. I didn’t mean “feel sorry for= pity” but I’m not sure how to resay it in a way that won’t come out either unintentionally insulting or again, pitying.

And yes, I have a total lack of experience with anything other than male/female sex, and so can only speak from that standpoint. I wasn’t aware that anal sex could be as enjoyable as “regular sex”. Thank you for clarifying that. What I meant was that having thought that the only way I know was the best, I thought it a "shame (there’s that word again, sorry) that all consenting adults could not recieve the same amount of pleasure, regardless of their activities.

Thank you for correcting me.

[Love_Rhombus]

Stupid box! I am not so in love with my own words that I wish to see them twice!

(Of course, in complaining about it, I am seeing them again. Arrrgh!)

[scott_evil]

*Originally posted by Sam Hell *
No offense taken, I opened this thread to increase my understanding, and any progress towards that end is appreciated.

Just don’t progress anywhere near my end. As I said before, I don’t like getting poked.

I should have reworded it slightly. I didn’t mean “feel sorry for= pity” but I’m not sure how to resay it in a way that won’t come out either unintentionally insulting or again, pitying.

I’m trying to think of a word for what you were trying to say, but I’m at a loss right now. “It must suck to be gay/lesbian/bi/whatever.” Well, some of us think it sucks, but a hell of a lot of us are perfectly happy the way we are. If someone were to give me a pill that would make me wake up str8 tomorrow morning, I would not take it. I like being queer. IMO, those who would take that hypothetical pill probably have a lot of interalized homophobia and self-loathing. I wasn’t always this happy with my queerdom, but I don’t recall ever being discontent with it once I came out to myself and close friends. It’s even better once you come out to your family, to your co-workers, and everyone accepts you.

And yes, I have a total lack of experience with anything other that male/female sex, and so can only speak from that standpoint. I wasn’t aware that anal sex could be as enjoyable as “regular sex”.

On top of that, I’m of the opinion that gay guys give better head because we’re more versed in what feels good. Before women rush in and tell me that’s a load of crap, remember, that’s my opinion, and is widely-shared.

Thank you for clarifying that. What I meant was that having thought that the only way I know was the best, I thought it a "shame (there’s that word again, sorry) that all consenting adults could not recieve the same amount of pleasure, regardless of their activities.

There’s good sex and bad sex, str8, gay, or lesbian. That’s life. I’ve had some lousy partners and some incredible ones. And I know that sometimes when I haven’t really been in the mood, I’ve been a crappy partner as well. It all depends on the person, his or her partner, the mood, the lighting ;), ad infinitum.

Thank you for correcting me.

You’re very welcome.

• s.e.

[iampunha]

*Originally posted by Sam Hell *
2) Because, they are not able to physically have sex in the way that the body is built to do it.

Not meaning to be rude here, but they are able to have sex the same way any straight person would. It isn’t like scott evil is unable to penetrate a woman with his penis. It’s that he desires men, not women. And in addition, how do you know what the body is built for? Did you ask its creator?

I’m not implying a “divine design” here, I’m just saying that I believe that people recieve the most physical pleasure from man-woman intercourse,

I humbly submit that those of us on this board who are homosexual do not receive the most pleasure from heterosexual intercourse;) And I wouldn’t go making sweeping generalizations about pleasure from sex, inasmuch as you can have two people who seem to be the exact same, and they can have very different methods of sexual gratification:)

and that I think it’s a shame (ok perhaps not the best word, but I couldn’t think of a better one) that gays and lesbians have diffirent urgings.

Well, I’ll try to live with myself, but it’ll be tough;) Seriously, though (not gay, but not straight either), it ain’t something I’m too broken up about!

I’m just saying that I wish it was another way so that everybody could enjoy whatever they want to do equally, but I don’t know what “other way” it could be.

Well, the phrase “liberty and justice for all” seems to do it well for me, but then you don’t see people reading that bit too often when they make it illegal for a man to marry another man:rolleyes:

Are either of these statements prejudical in any way?

A bit naive, I’d say … you mean well, but I would rephrase some of it a bit if you’re, for example, going to have a conversation with a militant homosexual;) Especially the bit about “I feel sorry for them that they can’t …” when many of us really have no desire to:D

The important thing is that you’re asking first, instead of coming in and saying “gay people can’t do x”, which would be the wrong way to go about things:)

[on preview]

I think what you’re trying to say re: pitying them is that you wish they could experience what you do?

[Polycarp]

Well, in my very limited exposure to gay porn, scott, and realizing that it probably represents normal gay life almost as well as straight porn represents normal straight life, it appears as though a gay sex act proceeds through three or four phases:

1. Appropriate kissing and manual foreplay (optional in the porn)
2. Oral sex, sometimes with the aggressive member of the two the performing the active role and sometimes taking turns
3. Anal sex in what I’d have to refer to as “doggie style”
   followed by
4. Anal sex in a face-to-face arrangement.

It’d be my impression that only (3) would be particularly stimulating to the prostate, and that (4) would not be. And of course I’m trying to keep in mind where I’m getting my information from, and the likelihood of its being anything like accurate.

So I guess the question is something on the order of, what’s “normal” and why?

[scott_evil]

Warning: Frank and explicit gay sex talk ahead! :eek:

*Originally posted by iampunha *

Not meaning to be rude here, but they are able to have sex the same way any straight person would. It isn’t like scott evil is unable to penetrate a woman with his penis.

I am, indeed, able to penetrate a woman, and have done so, on one occasion. (Oddly enough, it was with a lesbian, and after I had come out to her and many friends. I was 15.) However, I did not enjoy it one iota, and to this day I don’t know how I was able to maintain an erection, given that I’m gay and I was rip-roaring drunk. I couldn’t climax, though.

It’s that he desires men, not women.

Correct. I am exclusively attracted to men. While I can recognize an attractive and/or beautiful woman, I don’t wonder what she looks like naked. However, now that I’m older, I’m slightly more open to sleeping with a woman, were it to be in some orgy-type situation, with, say, some bi guys or something.

The important thing is that you’re asking first, instead of coming in and saying “gay people can’t do x”, which would be the wrong way to go about things:)

I, too, appreciate Sam Hell’s approach. I’ve only been on the SDMB a couple of months but have seen more than enough crap on queer-related threads.

Originally posted by Polycarp

Well, in my very limited exposure to gay porn, scott, and realizing that it probably represents normal gay life almost as well as straight porn represents normal straight life <snip>

I assume you’re being sarcastic…

<unsnip> it appears as though a gay sex act proceeds through three or four phases:

1. Appropriate kissing and manual foreplay (optional in the porn)
2. Oral sex, sometimes with the aggressive member of the two the performing the active role and sometimes taking turns
3. Anal sex in what I’d have to refer to as “doggie style”
   followed by
4. Anal sex in a face-to-face arrangement.

It’d be my impression that only (3) would be particularly stimulating to the prostate, and that (4) would not be.

You’d have to ask a bottom. I’ve only been poked by one of my boyfriends, and hated every second of it, but I’d put out because it was a love thing. :rolleyes: However, I’ve seen guys’ eyes roll back into their heads in absolute ecstasy as they’re being penetrated. I’ve also been asked to stay inside a guy after I’ve climaxed because he wants to maintain some kind of prostate stimulation. I’ve heard that this kind of stimulation makes orgasm more intense. I really wouldn’t know. Aside from analingus, I don’t want anything near or up my ass, thank-you-very-much.

In any case, this could prove to be an interesting thread.

God, another post about my sex life. :rolleyes:

• s.e.

[Guinastasia]

When I was little, I thought being gay was something you were assigned to do-that you were told you were supposed to do it.

Of course, I also thought people who couldn’t have babies would have kids who couldn’t have babies, that sex was kissing while naked and that ejaculation was when a man peed during sex.

[scott_evil]

*Originally posted by Guinastasia *
When I was little, I thought being gay was something you were assigned to do-that you were told you were supposed to do it.

I wasn’t assigned to do it, but I’m supposed to do it. And I enjoy doing it.

Of course, I also thought people who couldn’t have babies would have kids who couldn’t have babies, that sex was kissing while naked and that ejaculation was when a man peed during sex.

I was quite precocious as a boy, and my parents gave me a book when I was around five, titled How We Are Born, How We Grow, How Our Bodies Work, and How We Learn, part of which dealt with reproduction. “The man puts his penis into the woman’s vagina.” I thought, “How? Why? And then what happens?” No mention of erection, thrusting, ejaculation (well I’m not sure if it mentioned the swimming boys - it’s been a long time), and the pleasure of sex, reproductive or not.

It became clear a few years later.

• s.e.

[sub]fixed coding[/sub]

[scott_evil]

Damned screwy coding…

[Guinastasia]

Well, I meant supposed to as in, “Okay, you go and do this-because I said so.” Not as in, it’s what you were meant to do.

[Mockingbird]

Speaking in the opposite position of Scott evil(literally - pun intended, being screwed by a man can be INCREDIBLE.

Sure… there’s a little discomfort initially, but my female friends tell me they often experience similar things vaginally when the man is generously endowed.

Now… if you are in tune with your body, relaxing your sphincter to allow penetration is generally not a problem.

Now… there are men who have problems which make relaxing the anus difficult or impossible… we call them tops.

Seriously, not all gay men like to penetrate or be penetrated anally.

But, not only is it possible, Sam… it can be MASSIVELY satisfying.

Now… as a preemptive, not all gay men are seperated into a top/bottom dynamic. Nor does being a bottom or a top denote specific personality traits or behaviours.

[scott_evil]

*Originally posted by Hastur *
Speaking in the opposite position of Scott evil(literally - pun intended, being screwed by a man can be INCREDIBLE.

I’ve been told that.

Sure… there’s a little discomfort initially, but my female friends tell me they often experience similar things vaginally when the man is generously endowed.

When I first got poked, I wondered if women felt the same way. The guy in question wasn’t generously endowed (ChaCha, I’m talking about you). But I still hated it.

Now… if you are in tune with your body, relaxing your sphincter to allow penetration is generally not a problem.

Now… there are men who have problems which make relaxing the anus difficult or impossible… we call them tops.

OK maybe I’m literally tight-assed, but I really think I’m built different in that region. On top of that, I had an operation on my ass a couple of years ago (completely unrelated to sex), and I don’t want anything going up there. Anyway, I just don’t like it.

Seriously, not all gay men like to penetrate or be penetrated anally.

Correct. I like to penetrate, but try and penetrate me and all hell will break loose. I’d love to be able to enjoy it, but that hasn’t happened for me (yet).

But, not only is it possible, Sam… it can be MASSIVELY satisfying.

Given the reactions from many guys I’ve poked, I can attest to that.

• s.e.

[Larry_Griffin-Kentzel]

Off to IMHO.

---

Cajun Man - SDMB Moderator

[reprise]

Are you “homophobic” - not from what I’ve read so far.

Is your perception that gay people cannot gain pleasure from sexual encounters with people of the opposite gender correct? Well I can’t speak for other people on this messageboard, but in my personal experience physical pleasure or the lack thereof has little to do with how people define their sexual orientation.

I’m curious as to why some posters seem to be treating this thread with hostility. It seems to me that the OP quite seriously questioned whether their attitudes or beliefs were prejudicial.

Yes Sam, anal sex can be extremely pleasurable as can oral sex. Sexual orientation is about far more than the gender of the people with whom you have sex (although it’s often reduced - wrongly - that).

Not every heterosexual person likes penile-vaginal penetrative sex; not every heterosexual guy likes blow jobs; not every gay man likes anal sex, not every lesbian likes cunnilingus. With few exceptions, what you enjoy sexually doesn’t justify the attachment of either a label or a prejudice, and NEITHER does the fact that you might not enjoy a specific sexual activity .