Dream/NIghtmare Ticket for 2024 - Trump / Cruz

Politics & Elections
1

So, I was reading through CNN before bed, always a bad idea, and saw the following article

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/09/politics/ted-cruz-trump-2024-comments/index.html

“I don’t know what Trump’s going to decide – nobody does. Anybody who tells you they do is making things up. The whole world will change depending on what Donald Trump decides. That’s true for every candidate. That’s true of every potential candidate.”

Which is almost certainly true. Even if their are signs that Fox wants to pivot past Trump, his influence on the mid-terms pretty much cinches that if he does decide to run, the Republicans had best support him, rather than risk him running a third party out of spite.

But that got me thinking - I seriously doubt Trump will ask Pence to join him after Pence refused to support the theory that the VP is the one choosing the electors. So who would Trump select to run with him? Some nobody who would never question him? Someone that will keep the old guard in line? Or more likely, whomever helps him grift the most. And Cruz could be that someone. And from Cruz’s POV, it’s win all the way down. Because running against Trump in this cycle would likely be a no-go.

Let’s say the ticket wins (I pray not, but…). If Trump keels over during 4 years, Cruz is in for a free term. If Trump acts like trump and/or is convicted of a crime, and they decide to try to apply the 25th, Cruz also gets a free term and gets to play the great statesman as he takes over for the good of the party and nation. And if Trump goes the distance for 4 years and doesn’t break the Constitution to run again, well, there you go Cruz is STILL in the best position to take control, possibly with Trump’s blessing if sufficient sucking up and kickbacks are applies behind the scenes.

I can’t see any downside for Cruz, but can see Trump feeling that Cruz is just enough of a weasel not be trusted, and still sticking with someone who can can completely control or whom is likely incapable of rallying support without him.

Still, 'twas nightmare fuel for me, and I’m sharing it with you. I deliberately didn’t put this in the Pit, because I’d actually like to discuss if others think it’s plausible, or whom Trump would likely select instead (Trump / Palin had a thread in the past).

PS - to the mods, I tried to keep this non-rant-like but if you feel it needs to go to the PIT later, you have my permission beforehand.

2

Remember the Maxim: “Everything Trump Touches Turns To Shit”

If Cruz teams up with Trump, he’ll either be in prison or cast aside like yesterdays garbage. There is no upside for him

3

What are your views on ursine defecation habits and the religious convictions of Jorge Mario Bergoglio?

4

I have a proper reply to this, (not to the OP, but to Trump and Cruz) but will have to wait for this thread to go to the pit.

5

Overall I think the OP is pretty sensible. One comment about this snip:

The first part of the sentence is silly. Trump trusts no one. Trust is not part of his decision process. IMO Trump is convinced he can (and certainly should) control everyone and everything. Including a mere mortal like Cruz. Or De Santis. Or Rubio. Or …

I agree that Cruz could easily conclude that Cruz is well-served by trying to be VP-for-life during what’s likely to be Trump’s bid for Prez-for-life. If Trump pulls it off, Cruz is set. If Trump flunks it, Cruz is well-positioned (he thinks) to pivot before the stink really sticks to him. A bit like Pence hopes history exonerates and maybe even venerates his role on Jan 6.

What I disagree with is that Trump will want Cruz as Cruz. IMO Trump doesn’t actually think he even needs a VP; he’s plenty by himself. To the degree Trump himself gives it any thought, his only goal is somebody small and vanilla enough as to never cast the slightest shadow over Trump’s Glory. Cruz is not really cut from that cloth no matter how hard he may butt-kiss now. Pence certainly was cut from that cloth at the time of his selection as VP candidate.

In the US we have a long tradition of VP candidates being pretty irrelevant. The idea that they reliably deliver their home state’s vote or deliver regional “balance” to the ticket is the sort of post facto rationalization for stuff that the media just makes up to explain the inherently unexplainable.

Sorta like how they explain why the stock market went up (or down) yesterday. It’s not “profit-taking” or “changing sentiment” or any of the other anodyne explanations. The market just does that, and one-sentence explanations are post hoc guesswork.

With an ordinary presidential candidate, the only real influence a VP candidate has is by screwing things up; avoid that and you’re as much of an asset as it’s possible for a VP to be. See Adm Stockdale & Thomas Eagleton for examples of screwing that up. And substantially every other VP candidate of the last 100 years as counterexamples to those two.

With a candidate as extraordinary and haphazard as Trump, the VP candidate calculus changes massively. What the party elders or the party rank & file want is irrelevant. Trump’s advisors have some ideas of what might help get their man elected, net of their understanding that avoiding pissing off Trump is really their prime directive, not finding the most useful candidate.

6

Would he go for Ivanka?

7

Part of me thinks maybe Cruz as VP would be not so bad, because we’d get a different senator and Cruz might be effectively sidelined for a period.

Then again, the likelihood that Abbott would appoint anyone who’s not worse than Cruz is probably pretty low; he’d probably appoint some benighted, blinkered clown from the Panhandle, or some idiot like Louie Gohmert.

8

The Donald will want a nonentity who will quietly hover in the background expressing no opinions and sitting still even when a fly crawls on his head. He will NOT want a bombastic, headline-grubbing, BEARDED jackass possessing delusions of his own presidential potential and jockeying for the spotlight. Trump needs to be the ONLY jackass on the stage/in the headlines at any given moment.

Picturing the two of them together… ugh. Excuse me, I have to go gouge out my eyeballs with a grapefruit spoon.

9

I’m not picturing Cruz either. Lindsey Graham or Josh Hawley, yes. Because if they’re told to STFU and stay in their lane, they will.

10

Oh, no disagreement that Cruz is more happy to work for Trump (with an eye to usurping the throne) than Trump would be happy to have Cruz as VP. That’s why I specified that Trump may well stick with someone they can “completely control or be incapable of rallying support without him.”

My question is of the possible candidates, who can do the MOST for Trump without being too much of a risk or challenge to his authority? I don’t mean who gets more support from the ‘traditional’ branch or demographic or any other such call out to the former norms. I mean who can help funnel the most fundraising to siphon off, or deliver pre/post/concurrent campaign and election funds to Trump (I used the word grift previously, but trying to avoid such language).

Of course, when it comes to determining if Trump is MORE motivated by wealth or ego, it’s sometimes hard to parse, although I tend to fall on the side of ego, at least since the failure of 1/6. Certainly, the evidence so far on the reasons behind holding the documents at MaL seem to be more about ego than trying to profit off them, so by that standard - it’s going to be whichever VP candidate strokes his ego best. And having Cruz, who refused to endorse Trump in 2016 running as his subordinate would likely be very flattering to said ego.

I still think the economic side is going to be a factor in who Trump determines to run with though - it’s one of the ways he determines ‘winners’ after all. So who can deliver the biggest donors or perks to Trump himself without compromising Trump’s ego. That’s why I didn’t mention DeSantis as an example, who is very clearly enough of a rival to be dangerous, and settled on Cruz.

Still, I’m not tied to Cruz as being the one in any way, I described it as plausible nightmare food.

11

Trump needs Cruz right where he is now, rubber stamping all of Trump’s initiatives that benefit the rich and the corporations. At 51, Rafael, yes, that’s his real first name, can sit on the sidelines and wait to see what happens. No downside for Ted? What if Trump picks him as his VP and then loses the election? Ted will have the stink of Trump on him for the rest of his career.

12

I am thinking more long term goals. As things stand now, DeSantis would stomp Cruz in any post-Trump presidential run. If Cruz wants to be president, which I think is a safe bet, I can’t see a better possibility of him ever securing a future Republican nomination in said light. As for the stink of Trump (even a losing Trump) that’s a perception of the the left-leaning individuals. It’s at best the fragrance of the great ‘lost cause’ for Trump and Cruz’s base.

ETA - I repeat, I’m not tied to Cruz being the candidate, I fully see the point in other options, and gave reasons I felt Cruz is a possible (and expressed my feelings at that particular ticket). I’m more than happy to consider whom people consider better options in light of the personalities and political realities as they stand now.

13

I was thinking about Independents who are not Magas. Most of them have had enough of Trump and anyone who allies with him, and Cruz may need them if he makes a run of his own someday.

14

What trump needs is a bazillionaire with lots of his* own money AND who is mentally deficient enough to revel in basking in trump’s reflected glory while assuming the position. There have got to be a few of them around.

He could put up notices in golf course locker rooms:
“WANTED: Vice-Presidential candidate. Independently wealthy, no desire or ability to have an independent thought, sturdy kneecaps. Bonus points for a good law firm on retainer.”

* It has to be a man… well, a male anyway, not sure a man would want the job. A woman would draw too much attention to herself and away from trump just by being a woman, and that would never do.

15

And who gazes at him adoringly all the time.

16

By all indications, everybody hates Cruz’s guts. It’s a miracle he ever gets reelected to his seat, let alone a top office. I guess CFSG could put him on the ticket to make himself look good by comparison somehow.

17

I can see this, I’m not sure I agree with it, but it certainly is a possibility, What you haven’t explained is why you think that Cruz is the person to help with the grift. Sure he’s a slimy weasel but slimy weasels are a dime a dozen in the Republican party, and Trump’s ability to grift leaves every one of them in the dust. The only angle that is in any way lacking in Trump’s repertoire is the religious grift. He’s gottern the religious right to claim that he is god’s chosen but I don’t think he can fake religious sincerity enough to directly go after donations on religious grounds. So maybe he needs someone like David Barton. who can speak the Christian evangelical’s language and convince them to tithe directly to Trump.

18

Graham maybe. Not Hawley. Hawley is way too ambitious for Trump to trust him to be a lackey for four years. josh-hawley-for-president.com was registered on January 8, 2021.

19

I figure he’s one of those people who thinks he can ‘handle’ Agent Orange, and then just conveniently be in the right place at the right time to inherit his supporters. He’s also ultra religious and probably thinks God will be on his side just like Pence did.

20

To quote Julius Caesar.

Let me have men about me that are fat;
Sleek-headed men and such as sleep o’nights:
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look;
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.