Mutual respect, communication, support and tolerating imperfections are the bedrock of any successful partnership.
That depends. As you will likely be spending the most time with your “partner/mate”, I think most folks would want someone who can, at least, understand the issues that they want to discuss as they WILL seek someone who can (or who APPEARS to). A friend’s long-term marriage is suffering, now, because his wife can’t relate to the issues that are of interest to him (lawyer) so he is reluctant to retire and be “trapped” with just her as an audience.
[She, of course, wondering why she isn’t “enough” to hold his interest!]
As many intelligent people (IMHO) can’t explain things well to anyone at a lesser level of intelligence, this can be a deal-breaker – when your partner is incapable of understanding something that is important to you. You either need to discover how to relate things to that person’s skillset/experiences (and have that person willing to listen/understand) or have to find someone who has the skills to evaluate your comments in the absence of that specific knowledge.
So first off: my fantasy retirement does not include interacting exclusively with my wife. We do not share identical interests and should both pursue our independent activities rather than be dependent on each other exclusively. To the degree that I’ve not fully developed those connections outside of work is my problem.
Second: the bigger challenge to my intelligence is often following and understanding the interests and expertise of others. Sure I can enjoy when others are interested in my pontifications and share my interests, but being able to ask good questions (and understand the answers) about stuff I know little about, listening well, is the tougher game! I like to think I am reasonably smart (no genius) but sometimes I know I am not quite smart enough to do that.
First though people have to decide at the start who they are interested in having a coffee or drink with!
Retirement often reduces the number of different people that you interact with, regularly. This need not imply exclusivitiy. For many, their worlds shrink – or, change composition dramatically. E.g., my work is highly technical, not the sort of thing that I encounter in the folks that I meet outside of that environment. My PCP found his (delayed) retirement left him struggling to interact with peers that shared his interest and/or understanding of medical issues. The aforementioned friend is approaching a similar situation.
[If work is “just a job” then I imagine retirement is considerably easier]
Being curious and genuinely interested in other people is a prerequisite. I often comment (after social gatherings) about how few people actually are interested in the lives, experiences or interests of the other people they encountered at that gathering. Instead, they spend their time talking about THEIR interests, THEIR families, etc.
I, OTOH, am keenly interested in other peoples’ experiences – I already KNOW mine! So, will engage with others and probe deeply (“Wow! You ask a lot of questions!!”) and actively listen to what is being said.
I recall an encounter where we were chatting about “finding good help” (handyman-style). A neighbor suggested a service. I made a note. Some time later, they (husband and wife) were commenting about all of the screwups that service had made, in their direct experience. And, were embarassed when I replied, “And you are RECOMMENDING them to me?” (did you not think I was listening to your comments, beginning with the recommendation?)
I recently ran into a woman that I had met at a volunteer gig many years ago. In chatting, I naturally asked her if she was still with that organization (I had left). She was enthusiastic in her reply – mentioning the donations they were receiving, the work they were doing, etc.
Then, suggested I return, adding, “We coul duse the help!”
“But, didn’t you just tell me how well things are going?”
She turned a light shade of pink at my having paid such close attention to her words.
One “gets a vibe” from others as to their approachability, mannerisms, availability, etc. from environmental queues (did I mention “I don’t do apps”?) If you are in a location/situation that is common/comfortable for you, chances are, another person in that same situation at least shares some of your interests, concerns, problems, etc. So, you already have a common point of reference to build on.
[E.g., I don’t frequent bars so would be far less likely to encounter someone who does! I spend a fair bit of time in volunteer/charity missions so will likely encounter folks who are similarly inclined. etc.]
It’s true that, as someone who’s not retired, I don’t know what that would be like. Right now I would say that at least 80% of the conversations that my husband and I have are logistical, relating to the kids, or along the lines of general and non-technical “this is a conversation or subject that came up today at work/school/talking to the kids.” Does it make our marriage more interesting and better that when we discuss technical subjects that we can follow what the other person says without too much difficulty, or that we have a lot of in-jokes involving SF books we’ve both read? Sure! It’s definitely a big reason we were attracted to each other in the first place! But we also now have a lot of in-jokes involving, say, funny names the kids gave to objects when they were small.
But I can imagine that with the kids gone, a good half of our conversations would be different!
Ahahahaha. Yes, it is true that many intelligent people I have met are terrible at explaining things to people not on their level.
I’ve noticed that in many of the intellectual-mismatch marriages I know, at least one person in the marriage (and often both) is a really good communicator, great at asking questions and coming across as being truly interested in the other person in a conversation. (Every time I have a conversation with one of these people I’m taking mental notes, because I’m definitely not at that stage.) And I have to think that this is a great asset in a marriage. Which is kind of what you say in your later post, of course.
Yes. My husband and I were educated at the same college, so we not only share interests but a similar educational background. I met him in college and we even had some classes together. He’s a clinical psychologist and I am a person who is both deeply interested in the field and experienced with it on the receiving end. So we can talk about various interventions and core concepts from different perspectives.
Because of our shared educational background we also share some specific values and political leanings and enjoy having informed conversations on each. One of the biggest things we each got out of our education was a capacity for critical thinking. As a social worker these issues have been particularly important in my field. So there again is an avenue for conversation.
And what we share in general is a burning curiosity about the world around us. And this sort of mutual understanding is the foundation on which our relationship is built. I fell in love with him because I never wanted to stop talking to him.
There are always going to be things the other is not particularly interested in, but the big ones are interests we share, and the end result is we often get lost in conversation with one another. On one memorable occasion we blew past a highway exit, missed it by about thirty minutes, but we were so happy talking we didn’t mind the extra hour to the drive.
I don’t know if it has to be this way for everyone, but our shared educational background really came to be important in our relationship, starting with the day we met each other at freshman orientation and leading up to now, when it’s my son’s education we have to start thinking about.
So it’s on that basis I’m choosing education.
I work in nonprofit development. These aren’t mutually exclusive concepts. No matter how well things are going, we could always use the help. That’s because the need is bottomless.
This was actually a hard adjustment for me in becoming a new parent. The nature of the relationship does change. It requires ongoing work to sustain the connection whereas it was pretty easy before we had a child. We don’t have as much time for these rambling conversations as we used to. But we’ve found some success in listening to podcasts together on road trips, sharing articles for discussion and generally trying to remain curious.
Interesting thread. Made me think of my youngest son, who found himself suddenly unattached when his wife walked out with no warning to take up with one of her coworkers. This left him in very precarious mental - not to mention financial - state. It took him some months of depression and adjustment before he ventured onto a dating app.
After having less than great success, he finally met a woman who seems to be someone who has a lot in common with him.
Now to the OP: she has a post-graduate degree in STEM, while he is a high school graduate. That’s not to say he’s not bright, articulate and funny. He just passed on college because he was bored with high school (yes, he realizes now how stupid that was). She is a director of R&D at some large company and holds a patent on something she came up with. He works at an insurance company. Despite that, they seem to get along really well. Both have former spouses and have kids and are in their 40s, which is outside of the 20s-30s bracket. I think they both see a prolonged relationship.
I think perhaps maturity plays a part at some point in one’s life, when you realize that a relationship is more than just what you bank.
Also because that is way to invite someone to join! To give the sense that they can help make a difference.
That depends on the nature of the orgainzation and its mission statement. The group in question supported the local library branch. We would process donated books for resale the funds from which would be used to purchase things that the library needed/wanted but that the local government wouldn’t endorse/fund.
The “need” was limited to however many titles had been donated in a given period of time. Once those were made ready for sale, there was nothing left to do until a sufficient backlog of new donations had been created.
Another group I worked with refurbished computers for “underprivileged” youth. Again, the number of donated computers determined the extent of the effort required.
Each of these would be different than, for example, feeding the hungry/homeless.
At retirement, the kids are usually gone – grandkids may be present but may not factor into YOUR plans. Many men (in particular; women, potentially, in the future) are defined by their work. Two men meet and its only a matter of moments before one will ask the other, “So, what do you do?”
I’ve encountered many people who have not really considered what their life will look like after retirement. One day, they find themselves with nowhere to go and nothing to do – and haven’t a clue as to how to move forward from that point!
How do you “develop” an interest (in something) when it doesn’t already exist? What’s the plan?
My other half has entirely different tastes in music, film/reading, art, food, etc. It would be easy to simply dismiss all of those issues as “unimportant” – to me! But, I choose to MAKE them important and see this as yet another opportunity to learn something new.
If you, instead, look at as an opportunity to share your knowledge/interest/passion with another, then you work at finding a way to convey those ideas. If you have learned about their capabilities, then a bit of effort will usually suffice for you to draw on their experiences to explain these things.
I find some subjects so “basic” that I can’t fathom a way to explain them. E.g., I have met many (female) artists who have a problem understanding and using perspective. To which I reply, “Huh?” Isn’t that like understanding gravity?
But, rather than seeing that as THEIR deficiency, I, instead, see it as a failure on my part to come up with an intuitive explanation that they will be able to internalize (“grok”).
Good explanations “make inherent sense” – like telescopes being time machines.
The thing is, I haven’t really solidified what I have learned myself until I can explain it to someone. Usually that someone is my spouse. He’s handy because he will push back if something doesn’t make sense and I can go back to the drawing board of trying to understand it better. If I can’t explain it in plain language, I don’t understand it.
In the absence of someone to explain it to, I’m not beneath having imaginary conversations with people in my head.
I am quick to internalize new ideas. Applying them often takes time for the technology (or resources) to catch up. E.g., my first AI course was in the mid 70’s – yet it’s only practical for me to use it, now – I couldn’t afford to put the components required to do this in real time into a product until those things declined in cost to this point.
I use my other half to develop “executive summary” sorts of explanations (executives often not being current with technology or even versed in the field) as I have to prepare documents that describe my work and design methodology. Fortunately, this isn’t a passive exercise; i get feedback (in the form of questions) as I am explaining. This gives me clues as to which parts of the explanation (“mental model”) need refinement.
Colleagues tend not to provide that sort of feedback as they can make the mental leap to the concept just with a few deliberately chosen keywords – regardless of the novelty.
In reciprocity, if shown a piece of art, I will make an effort to “see” what might be wrong with the composition or execution. This, knowing full well that I don’t have a trained eye so my comments are, at best, simple observations.
I have, however, walked up to a paiinting and rotated it 90/180/270 degrees and walked away – to be met with unexpected approval (something in my brain lets me visualize things in any orientation – even mirrored – without making any deliberate effort). It seems that artists create things in an orientation that they artificially imposed on the work and can’t separate themselves from that “initial assumption”.
That’s why showers were created! Having a good water heater is essential as its really easy for time to slip by when you’re not focused on “getting clean”.
So, while I know a lot of technical people who are just not that great at explaining technical subjects in general (this is something that we really try to work on with the kids, because I don’t want them to grow up like that), I’m also thinking here about my husband, whom I consider to be far better than I am at explaining complex technical subjects to a technical audience. He has a way of holding an entire complex subject in his head and is able to explain it in a way that is elegant and builds on itself in a logical progression, even if it’s something he hasn’t explained before. It’s so impressive to me and I wish I could do that – unless I’ve rehearsed an explanation several times, I tend to leave out context and jump wildly from one place to another.
But it’s hard for him sometimes to realize how much other people don’t know, or what their entry point is – partially because he’s very humble, so he assumes that everyone else in the world is as smart as he is and as interested in technical material. (This is actually one of the reasons I was attracted to him, because I far prefer that to the more common “everyone else is beneath me” that one often finds with very smart men.) My mother-in-law would always ask me what my husband was working on at work, because she knew I’d tell her a sentence or two in nontechnical language, and he’d try to explain the technical details.
Heh, when the kids were little, I was mostly the one to do math with them (and still do with Younger Child) because I was the one who was interested in figuring out how to approach small kids who didn’t already know how to (say) add or multiply, how to make it fun, etc. (My husband did math with them too, he just wasn’t as good at it as I was.) But now that Older Child is doing much more complex math, including problems that I can’t solve immediately, she’ll ask her dad to explain things – she doesn’t want me to explain anything anymore. So I guess we make a good team.
Most people have at least a few things that they’ve put off not having the energy or time given the 9 to 5 (or 6 or 7) drag. I’m not sure the problem is with the lack of things but rather the need for self-motivation and the feeling that it isn’t important outside of a work context.
I guess where I’m puzzled is based on the demographic changes you’re describing, many women are likely not going to get to pick either a highly educated guy or a rich guy. They are going to have to ask themselves what qualities they prefer after those two are off the table.
Not that I don’t find this a stimulating discussion.
This is where you have to understand the person to whom you are making the explanation. If you understand how they think, the things that interest them, etc. then you can usually find a parallel to which they can relate.
Explaining to “strangers” – or, anonymous entities (like someone who is going to read a technical description of your work, without you being available for comment) – is considerably harder. This, however, can cause you to come up with simpler designs/approaches to problems: does it really need to be this complex?
I have three favorite (unattributable) quotes:
- “You can’t do ANYTHING (technical) in a day”
- “Plumbing tasks require THREE trips to the hardware store”
- “‘Complex’ is anything that doesn’t fit COMPLETELY in one brain”
The latter is a guiding force in most of my work; break things down into small/simple enough pieces that an individual can carry it around in his head.
My “grandmother-in-law”(?) used to complain about one of her grandkids (I’m not entirely sure of the actual relationship… I’d have to sketch a family tree) and his use of “big words”. When the rest of the family would try to explain that he was intelligent and that’s how he talked, grandma would counter that I was intelligent and didn’t talk like that!
(other folks’) Kids are fun to teach. And, highly rewarding as the epiphanies are more common and more obvious. Teach an adult and they try to downplay the knowledge you’ve imparted: “Oh, yeah. I knew that.”
I’m not sure how easy it would be for a parent (as there is an established, formal relationship in place). But, as an outsider, you have more leeway in doing unexpected/outrageous things to make it more amusing. Or, coming up with more playful approaches.
I recall playing “blocks” with a friend’s (very) young son. He was at the stage where knocking things apart was easier than building things – so, I could build elaborate structures, his attention glued to my every move. Then, let him clobber them, laughing giddily! Ditto with the Lincoln Logs structures.
When he was “learning his letters”, I recall slowly and deliberately turning an M, upside down, so he saw it as resembling the W positioned aadjacent. His eyes went wide. For the next several months, every time we were out together, he would proudly and insistently point out W’s to me (street signs, store names, etc.)
[I’ve long since moved away – he’s likely a dad, by now – but, I wonder if these things still have a place in his memory?]
I guess I can’t relate to that. I truly love what I do – avocation as vocation – and can’t imagine not wanting to keep doing it, even in the absence of pay. Being able to pick the projects that I want to take on – without having to worry about “funding” – is exciting. I dread the idea of not having enough time (in a day, in a life) to explore all of the ideas that interest me!
Yet, I’ve known people who are looking forward to retirement “so they can watch the daytime soaps”. Really? WTF, that’s your goal???
I love teaching my son (who is four.) I love teaching him more than playing with him. Sometimes we can play and learn, those are the best days. He gets so excited about new concepts. He has insatiable curiosity about everything, especially related to numbers and space. I teach him as much as I can within the limits of my own understanding (I’m a word person.)
Lately, however, he asks relentless questions whenever told to do/not to something.
“It’s time to brush your teeth.”
“What if you don’t brush your teeth?”
“Don’t touch that painting.”
“What if you do touch that painting?”
And on. And on. And on.
After five hundred times of this, I finally responded, “Then the Earth will explode!” He was delighted. This is a kid who likes to see simulations of asteroids smashing into Earth. Now I just try to think of more and more ridiculous outcomes to his What If questions.
My only retirement goal is to do more of what I already do with my free time. So fiction writing would be a big one because my current life has crowded that out. But I have very simple requirements. Maybe I’ll keep working at this job until I’m 80 because it’s not usually 40 hours a week. I’d like to learn how to garden.
My husband doesn’t have any huge goals either. He’ll probably keep working with a reduced case load.
We’ll be those people that keep working until the bullshit outweighs the satisfaction, but that could be a long time.
I’m happy with the life I have, I just want more of it in retirement.
Well, it’s not what I would do 
. But the only ultimate goal one should have for retirement is enjoying yourself. If soaps do it for you, why not?
So if that is vocation, awesome - one my older siblings retired as a programmer/database administrator and then promptly took a full-time “retirement job” building and maintaining an ever-expanding computer cluster for a group of researchers. Because that was a fun hobby job for him, the kind of thing he would have played around with in his spare time anyway. Why not get paid for it? The only thing that killed it for him was long-COVID destroying his ability to concentrate intensely on time-sensitive tasks without physically exhausting himself. So now he and his wife travel and he putters around with non-time sensitive tasks. Still pretty happy.
But loving your job is rare. Most people DO NOT. I don’t - I don’t hate it, but I won’t care a smidge when I’m done with it. I’m hopefully going to spend my time doing more of my very amateur nature photography, travel more, play games, yes probably consume a little more entertainment (no daytime soaps, though), maybe a little volunteer/docent/guide work if I get bored/interested enough and have the excess energy.
What I definitely don’t intend to do is accomplish anything terribly concrete beyond mundane necessity, because really what’s the point of that nonsense 
?