This was an appeal of the federal court case from last weekend, so a different case than the one from Wednesday, which is a state case.
Yeah, I can’t tell either. I want to see that one smacked down. It’s a bonkers ruling in my non-lawyer opinion.
ETA: Thanks @robby.
Both foreign and domestic disinformation is bad and something to stop (hence why social media and search engines were pressured to implement fact checking). But at least domestic disinformation would be committed by those who have a vested interest in the country continuing to function. There’s also a huge difference between what can be accomplished by individuals and what can be accomplished by a nation-state. (See also why nation states hacking is worse than individuals.)
Actors protected by nation states are also harder to both track down and prosecute for their actions. There’s a reason why US prosecution mostly involved punishing those in the US who helped them get away with it.
As for the US’s own actions, surely everyone knows two wrongs don’t make a right. Don’t you think those other countries were just as upset when the US used their power to aid in a coup?
Plus, well, even the most clandestine actions by the US were pretty obvious on the ground in the country in question–hence why the US was hated for meddling in so many places.
There’s a reason why outside influence is illegal. It makes a democracy less legitimate. If an outside country can determine who wins your elections, then the people can have no faith in their voting system. And that appears to be what happened in 2016. Heck, we’re not sure it didn’t happen in 2020. Either they didn’t do as well, due to the pressure on social media to become fact checkers, or they happened to agree with the rest of the world that Trump was bad for the wellbeing of everyone.
It seems self evident why the Russians getting such a horrible person as Trump elected would be such a big deal. If they have that power, then our democracy is sunk. So we had to figure out ways to fight against it.
And, as I mentioned upthread, We have put a lot of pressure on social media to stop disinformation. You don’t think all those posts pointing out that statements were factually inaccurate were done because Facebook or Twitter wanted them, right?
The main roadblock was that they knew the Trump administration wanted them to allow disinformation to help him, and so there was less pressure as long as it seemed like he’d win.
The fact that the administration most helped by disinformation was reluctant to try and stop disinformation isn’t an argument for why we should just accept disinformation, whether foreign or domestic.
I highly credit Facebook with why 80% of Americans accepted that Biden won within a week after the votes were tallied. Every single time I logged in, they had a graphic explaining how Biden had actually won, along with stories explaining the win that did not give any credence to Trump’s actions.
I mean, everyone I know over a certain age is on Facebook. The main way those fake sites spread was because they were posted on Facebook. For people that age, Facebook is where political memes spread.
Thank you for the thoughtful post, BigT.
I’m not entirely persuaded. In the end, isn’t the fault that of the stupid, gullible public? Isn’t the best response accurate information?
I readily admit that I’m ignorant of the specific laws governing what can be posted where by whom, and what the social media platforms are urged/required to do.
If you feel like it, please unpack this statement. What exactly are you saying “appears to have happened in 2016”? Are you saying people had no faith in the voting systems in or since 2016? I have not encountered anyone who opined that the votes were not correctly tabulated 4 years ago.
Nor have I seen anything clearly establishing that “an outside country [determined]” the outcome of that election. I’m sure foreign nation disinformation had an influence, but I think the fault of electing Trump is entirely ours.
The only extent to which I’ve heard thoughtful folk question the legitimacy of our voting systems, is people who have questioned the influence small conservative states have in the electoral college, and the fact that everyone gets to vote no matter how ignorant/bigoted/etc they are. A lot of people do not like to admit that hate and a lack of critical thinking are right up there in any list of top “American values”!
My (not just mine) theory has always been that the internal polling data shared by the Trump campaign, with the Russians [see links] was the data that informed the deluge of microtargeted posts and ads on Facebook.
Knowing where things were close, and what the various voters cared about, made it not all too difficult to target divisive ads (as they did), and potentially change minds.
Links:
How many minds were changed ? Who knows. But the ads/posts reached 126 million Americans ? Think about what % that probably represents (not everybody reached by those ads was a voter, or voted, to be sure) of those who voted in November.
Note that this blistering decision came from a Trump appointee. This restores some of my faith in our institutions.
I imagine Trump is on the phone with McConnell right now screaming at him: “I thought these guys were supposed to be on my side!”
I have a feeling Mitch is not taking any more of Donnie’s calls. Ever.
Yes, and this is how Russian bot memes and lies are spread. Sure, it is doubtful that any given FB poster or tweeter or even SDMB poster is working for the Kremlin. But they could very well pass on something originated in Russia.
The 2016 election was so close, any of a number of things could have given Hillary the win. The Comey memo was the biggest cause no doubt, as well as the failure of her campaign to work the rust belt states, etc hard. But yes, Kremlin disinformation made quite a few people stay home or vote 3rd party, and that could have tilted the election to Clinton.
They didn’t have to persuade people to vote. They only needed to persuade people who might otherwise have voted for Clinton not to show up.
A very large amount of effort went into convincing people that voting for Clinton would either be a horrible thing to do, or a useless thing to do because she’d be no better than Trump. Much of that effort had been put in by the Republicans over the previous thirty years; but it may well have been Russian effort that made that push just enough to work.
Our president has set new terms for a possible Biden presidency. Nothing difficult, Biden just has to prove that all his votes were honest. Just like I’m sure Donnie will do.
https://twitter.com/i/events/1308626736066617344
I wish it were possible for the Biden campaign to collect all the ballots and have them delivered to the White House. That would be fun to see.
Is someone in his camp brave enough to let the fool know that he isn’t in a position to set terms for the soon to be President?
Too late to edit, I see I screwed up the twitter link. Here’s a second try at it.
Biden can only enter the White House as President if he can prove that his ridiculous “80,000,000 votes” were not fraudulently or illegally obtained. When you see what happened in Detroit, Atlanta, Philadelphia & Milwaukee, massive voter fraud, he’s got a big unsolvable problem!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 27, 2020
Dear Donnie The Dumb,
It’s not an unsolvable problem. It’s not a problem. Biden has nothing to prove. Now, Dumb, Dumb Donnie, if you’d like to prove those votes were invalid, knock yourself out. Dumbass.
Fuck Off,
bobot
You don’t understand Trump’s reasoning(term used loosely). If he can’t prove there was fraud, then Biden can’t prove there wasn’t. Therefore, Trump gets to stay.
Well, I wish him luck with that, because the icing on the Trump shit-cake will be watching his dumb ass being dragged out of the White House! 
It will happen as soon as someone locates their gonads and tells him he has no clothes on. IOW never.
Last week a “YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER HAS BEEN CANCELED DUE TO” voicemail graced my phone. The caller ID said the call was from Russia and the voice sounded like an over-done Russian accent attempt. I assume it was satire. Is there satire spam?
The recount in Milwaukee County in Wisconsin was completed today, with Biden increasing his net lead over Trump by 132 votes; Dane County’s recount is still going on, and should be completed by Sunday.
However, the Trump campaign is still seeking to disqualify 238,420 ballots between the two counties, claiming issues with their absentee status:
every single state certification is evidence that the votes were legal.
/nuff said.