[QUOTE=brujaja]
I’m probably going to be unpopular for saying this…although I see I’m not the only one…but, if I haven’t leapt on and ravished somebody by the third hanging-out-on-purpose-by-plan, then I never will. Probably. (I am a girl.) YMMV.
[/QUOTE]
I guess that’s why it seems all the more important to ask the right questions etc. in the first couple dates, eh?
[QUOTE=brujaja]
I’m probably going to be unpopular for saying this…although I see I’m not the only one…but, if I haven’t leapt on and ravished somebody by the third hanging-out-on-purpose-by-plan, then I never will. Probably. (I am a girl.) YMMV.
[/QUOTE]
But it’s important to remember that this isn’t a universal rule, and every guy shouldn’t give up if they don’t get some on the third date. There are certainly plenty of women out there who have set this date number at five, or ten (or one, for that matter). But kudos to you for making it clear what you want – if you expected the guy to do the leaping on the third date and would not call him back if he didn’t, then I would wag my finger. I’m fine with making the first move, but I’m going to want some pretty clear signals beforehand, and I don’t often get them on the third date.
The phone call thing is silly. If there’s a woman who thinks you’re “desperate” for calling her within 24 hours, she’s probably going to think you’re a weirdo for liking her in the first place.
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
If you say you’re taking it slow but present her with a dozen long-stemmed red roses, it “says” something different.
[/QUOTE]
I would lay off the roses.
Well, you lie, obviously. Not directly, but more of just the “Oh sorry, I’m busy Saturday, how about Friday” sort of thing. If she asks you what you did the other night you just say you went out, and if she persists tell her you already got a mom. When she asks if you’re seeing someone else you just say “Is there a reason not to?” and she’ll probably either say no, meaning go ahead do what you want, or she’ll say yes, because she likes you. And then you kiss her and be all like, I don’t want to rush things, take it slow, smell the roses, etc. If she presses you on it like a psycho, just tell her that things are complicated.
Complicated is a code word for none of her beeswax. Complicated means I was/am in the tail end of a relationship when we met and fucked, or it means I have commitment issues, or whatever. If she wants an exact definition of complicated, you’ll have to decide whether to commit to her or not, because she’s not buying your bullshit and is desperate to lock you down. If you lie to her beyond that you’re basically a dick. You’re getting dark side karma, becoming an evil playa.
Yeah but if you care about someone you generally don’t let them throw themselves in front of a train. Just something to keep in mind.
You know what they never talk about in movies? Money. One girlfriend costs you X money. Another girlfriend will cost you the same amount. There is no bulk deal on these things. Pretty soon you’re bleeding money. You’ve got the dinner tabs, the tickets, the gas, the condoms, the STD tests, the parking, holy shit: the maid has to come 2-3 times a week just to get rid of the evidence. You’ll own more sets of sheets than normal, and an extra hamper. The cabinets under your bathroom sinks will be stock full of abandoned and not-quite-so-abandoned pink girly stuff. You will consider buying bags and nametags to put on that girly stuff to keep track of it. You’ll waste time learning to sweep your place like a pro for “forgotten” things like stray earrings and loose hairs in highly improbable places.
These days I date one woman and just hit the strip club when I want new boobs in my face. Easier and cheaper and usually alot more fun.
@Ichbin: No, I wouldn’t write someone off for not putting out by the third date. The question, rather, is whether she expects me to put out on the third date.
One of the best ways a woman can lose my interest is to offer me sex on a first date. I like to get to know her a little better, build some rapport, demonstrate that I’m not just with her for that. If it’s too easy, it falls under the “If it seems too good to be true…” umbrella. Plus I guess I’m a bit of a prude.
@ Gross: Wow, would that my dating life were that exotic!
True dat about the money. It adds up. But, I don’t figure to take them to the fanciest places etc. I like dumb junk like bowling or playing putt putt.
Update: I replied to her email this morning and she replied back an hour and a half later. Cool!
And yet, my mama told me I better shop around. So many women, so little time!
msmith537: Sometimes, I think I love you.
[QUOTE=Grossbottom]
…the maid has to come 2-3 times a week just to get rid of the evidence. You’ll own more sets of sheets than normal, and an extra hamper. The cabinets under your bathroom sinks will be stock full of abandoned and not-quite-so-abandoned pink girly stuff. You will consider buying bags and nametags to put on that girly stuff to keep track of it. You’ll waste time learning to sweep your place like a pro for “forgotten” things like stray earrings and loose hairs in highly improbable places.
[/QUOTE]
Or, you could just date women who don’t give a shit if you date other women at the same time.
Well, to be fair… I’m very upfront about my unwillingness to commit, but I still hide the evidence. It tends to make people uncomfortable. Not that there’s much of it left after I chase them around with their stuff yelling “You can’t leave this here!!!”
Update…called, talked for about 45 min. Unfortunately she has friends coming in from out of town Fri-Sat, so we’ll backburner it for the time being.
OK…you asked. I tend to come off contrarian and cold when I discuss this, but I don’t mean to be that way. In the past I had lousy dating luck until I sat back and tried to ‘analyze’ what is going on. What I uncovered worked well for me.
DO NOT call her right away. Wait a few days. Heck, wait a week if anything. It is much better to call later than earlier. If you call right away then she knows you are very interested. It’s just human nature for people to attach more value to what they think they cn’t have then what they can. If you call too soon, then she will value you less and know that she can ‘have’ you which means she can decide whether or not to ‘keep’ you. If you are a hunk and woman salivate after you…fine. If you are an ordinary Joe…not so good.
What you want her to be thinking is not ‘should I give this guy a chance’ but to be thinking ‘why isn’t he calling’? ‘Was he not interested in me?’ ‘He must have a full life and forgot about me’…things like that. She is not having you in hand and deciding whether to kick you to the curb or not but on why you haven’t called.
As to dating multiple women? Man…go for it. Date as much as you want. You are right in that you need to do this. Heck, if a woman you likes finds out you are dating others (so long as no promise of exclusivity were exchanged) it will increase your value in her eyes, not decrease it. She won’t like it…but, again, she doesn’t ‘have’ you yet and so can’t decide to kick you to the curb or not. She is in a position of having to approach YOU with an offer of exclusivity - not whether or not to reject your offer.
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Also, not to sound cynical. Uhuh…a friend in town? Riiiiiiigggggggggttttt. Did she propose an alternative time? No?
Don’t call her again. She needs to call you. Don’t wait by the phone.
[QUOTE=BlinkingDuck]
OK…you asked. I tend to come off contrarian and cold when I discuss this, but I don’t mean to be that way. In the past I had lousy dating luck until I sat back and tried to ‘analyze’ what is going on. What I uncovered worked well for me.
DO NOT call her right away. Wait a few days. Heck, wait a week if anything. It is much better to call later than earlier. If you call right away then she knows you are very interested. It’s just human nature for people to attach more value to what they think they cn’t have then what they can. If you call too soon, then she will value you less and know that she can ‘have’ you which means she can decide whether or not to ‘keep’ you. If you are a hunk and woman salivate after you…fine. If you are an ordinary Joe…not so good.
What you want her to be thinking is not ‘should I give this guy a chance’ but to be thinking ‘why isn’t he calling’? ‘Was he not interested in me?’ ‘He must have a full life and forgot about me’…things like that. She is not having you in hand and deciding whether to kick you to the curb or not but on why you haven’t called.
As to dating multiple women? Man…go for it. Date as much as you want. You are right in that you need to do this. Heck, if a woman you likes finds out you are dating others (so long as no promise of exclusivity were exchanged) it will increase your value in her eyes, not decrease it. She won’t like it…but, again, she doesn’t ‘have’ you yet and so can’t decide to kick you to the curb or not. She is in a position of having to approach YOU with an offer of exclusivity - not whether or not to reject your offer.
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Also, not to sound cynical. Uhuh…a friend in town? Riiiiiiigggggggggttttt. Did she propose an alternative time? No?
Don’t call her again. She needs to call you. Don’t wait by the phone.
[/QUOTE]
Do be blunt, posters. “Straight dope” is what it’s all about.
OK, I was dog tired last night, hence the short post.
In the back of my mind, when I posted the thread, was this “counter-intuitive” thing with dating. E.g. the suggestion to wait a week before calling her. I would expect her to figure I wasn’t interested enough or whatever, that I’d be shooting myself in the foot. That’s my default assumption, and one that I agree needs challenging.
One of the things we discussed last night is her past, i.e. that when she divorced 15 years ago, she didn’t date. Her priority was her kids and she didn’t even consider dating. Now that the last has moved out, she’s just getting back into dating. One possible conclusion: this woman : male companionship :: camel : water. It isn’t likely to make her bonkers with desire or anything.
Other facts to consider, from the communications so far:
She emailed me first. I give women double points for being “aggressive” or whatever you want to call it. It’s no easier for guys to get shot down but women take it harder because they don’t risk it as often and so usually don’t have calluses.
She replied pretty quickly to my reply. There doesn’t seem to be much “cat and mouse” about it so far.
As for the friends in town…my bullshit meter didn’t go off. She said something like, “It looks like I won’t be available till Sunday…” as if to imply that if I chose Sunday, she’d be up for it. It wasn’t explicitly stated so I let it go. I figured A) maybe she’ll be too exhausted after the friends in town, and B) I don’t want to make it seem like my schedule is infinitely flexible.
The friends-in-town story also seemed appropriately detailed. E.g. she says her friends have plans for her on Saturday, but won’t tell her what they are. It sounds like they’ve researched the area and come up with some surprises for her.
I agree with the “Don’t call her again” part, i.e. let her call me. I will do exactly that.
But if she doesn’t, it’s cool. Maybe I’m too philosophical about it, but I figure that there are other women out there. If she isn’t attracted enough to me to make it happen, that’s an answer unto itself.
Slip her the sausage.
No, seriously, I’d be open and up-front about what you are looking for. You shouldn’t feel like you have to hide other dates with a woman you are dating, as long as you’re both being clear and open. If you don’t want to play games, then you shouldn’t have to. I’d also second the ‘over-thinking’ remark. So many people are different, and one woman’s cup of tea is another woman’s horse feces. I overthink myself, so don’t think I’m above it either. Hardly ><
As a 45 year old newly single woman, I find this thread enthralling.
If you’d asked me for my number and I gave it to you, I want you to call me and not at 3 in the morning. I want to get to know you but I want to have fun. Unless you’re dazzlingly wealthy, I know a 4 star restaurant is a very special occasion and we’re not there yet—we just met. Take me to a local favorite of yours that allows for conversation. I want to enjoy myself, so conversations that will lead to the re-opening of wounds and tears should be left for another time. This is a date. Let’s have a nice time. Let’s see if there’s chemistry. We’re new to each other—just that is exciting and we both have lives and friends and work and let’s see if this is fun and something I want to make fit into my life. Most likely, the chances I’ll take you home with me are slim to none but I want to find out if I might want to. That’s something I want in my life and I’m here to see if it could be with you. I don’t need your money. I have money. Offer to pay for dinner—that’s okay, I know you want to and if you’d wanted to eat alone, you would have. If I had wanted to eat alone, I wold have. But you wanted to spend some time with me and that’s good. Let’s just let the day happen. I’m hoping we like each other a lot but not all my hopes are hanging on this date.
[QUOTE=Cyn]
As a 45 year old newly single woman, I find this thread enthralling.
If you’d asked me for my number and I gave it to you, I want you to call me and not at 3 in the morning. I want to get to know you but I want to have fun. Unless you’re dazzlingly wealthy, I know a 4 star restaurant is a very special occasion and we’re not there yet—we just met. Take me to a local favorite of yours that allows for conversation. I want to enjoy myself, so conversations that will lead to the re-opening of wounds and tears should be left for another time. This is a date. Let’s have a nice time. Let’s see if there’s chemistry. We’re new to each other—just that is exciting and we both have lives and friends and work and let’s see if this is fun and something I want to make fit into my life. Most likely, the chances I’ll take you home with me are slim to none but I want to find out if I might want to. That’s something I want in my life and I’m here to see if it could be with you. I don’t need your money. I have money. Offer to pay for dinner—that’s okay, I know you want to and if you’d wanted to eat alone, you would have. If I had wanted to eat alone, I wold have. But you wanted to spend some time with me and that’s good. Let’s just let the day happen. I’m hoping we like each other a lot but not all my hopes are hanging on this date.
[/QUOTE]
How do you feel about Putt Putt and Drive-In movies? Shooting pool? Bowling? Campfire and guitar? What’s your idea of a good first date?
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
How do you feel about Putt Putt and Drive-In movies? Shooting pool? Bowling? Campfire and guitar? What’s your idea of a good first date?
[/QUOTE]
These are great questions to ask on a first date. You’d find out that I’m terrible at all games but love to play, that I’ve never been camping but appreciate guitar, (I play musical instruments),that I’d be impressed if you could find a drive-in ( I know more movie quotes than I care to admit) and people can bring their own yummy food ( fruit and cheese travel well) and not have to eat just popcorn.
My idea of a good first date is comfortable surroundings that support conversation. It’s getting-to-know-you time. At my age, I’ve been to beautiful restaurants and lots of fun events. I want to be impressed by you, not by what we do on a first date. And confidence, attentiveness and having a good time is impressive to me. Be as relaxed as you can be and listen and talk.
[QUOTE=Cyn]
These are great questions to ask on a first date. You’d find out that I’m terrible at all games but love to play, that I’ve never been camping but appreciate guitar, (I play musical instruments),that I’d be impressed if you could find a drive-in ( I know more movie quotes than I care to admit) and people can bring their own yummy food ( fruit and cheese travel well) and not have to eat just popcorn.
My idea of a good first date is comfortable surroundings that support conversation. It’s getting-to-know-you time. At my age, I’ve been to beautiful restaurants and lots of fun events. I want to be impressed by you, not by what we do on a first date. And confidence, attentiveness and having a good time is impressive to me. Be as relaxed as you can be and listen and talk.
[/QUOTE]
St.-Exupéry said something to the effect that love doesn’t consist of gazing into each other’s eyes…it consists of looking outward in the same direction. To me that means that the physical attraction won’t sustain it but if you have the same tastes, attitudes, goals, etc. then you can grow together instead of apart.
I recently declined an opportunity to date a woman. It was pretty obvious to me that she was interested, and if I thought it was obvious, she must have been whacking me over the head with it.
One thing: she loved to dance. I can mostly take or leave dancing but I think she’d go every night if she could. Another thing: church. I’m not a churchgoer but she invited me for Easter services. Well, if you’re remotely Christian that would be the #2 day of the year to go (should be #1), and since she invited me I went. It wasn’t at all the sort of place I’d attend, even if I were looking.
Neither of those things were as damning as her attitude. If the group was going dancing, she expected I’d go. It was like, “I love dancing…therefore everyone else must love dancing. What’s your agenda for not going with us?” Ditto on church. She asked if I liked it and I think she figured I’d salute and sign up for all the committees they had. When I said it was nice but didn’t elaborate much, she seemed to take it personally. The following week she asked me if I wanted to go; I said I had something else already going on and she was pissed.
In general, I’d say she was attracted to me and was trying to force me into some mold of the ideal guy for her. Once you hit your 40’s, I thought, you’ve long since given up on changing people and women are better about that than men. Um, not always. I acknowledge fully that she is who she is and if I dated her, I’d have to accept that as baked into the deal: “I’m about to be dragged out for dancing and church a lot more than I like…”
We definitely weren’t looking outward in the same direction already, so I didn’t even start it.
As for the woman in the OP…I wonder if it would be fun to have some questions for her. Stay away from hot-button topics, of course, but see how she thinks, what she believes. For example, JFK…lone gunman or conspiracy?
One concern about the drive-in (there’s one in the vicinity) is that it’s probably an hour driving there and back. Add to that the putt putt (which the drive-in has, on premises) a movie/double feature and…it might be more time than some would like to invest on a first date. If the date goes off the rails, there’s that long drive home.
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
St.-Exupéry said something to the effect that love doesn’t consist of gazing into each other’s eyes…it consists of looking outward in the same direction. To me that means that the physical attraction won’t sustain it but if you have the same tastes, attitudes, goals, etc. then you can grow together instead of apart.
…I wonder if it would be fun to have some questions for her. Stay away from hot-button topics, of course, but see how she thinks, what she believes. For example, JFK…lone gunman or conspiracy?
[/QUOTE]
A date should be fun for both of you and if you don’t enjoy church and dancing, you don’t have to do what you don’t like. Being pushed to do things I don’t really like isn’t something I want in dating. Being asked to explain why I don’t want to go is valid only up to a point.
An hour drive away should be saved for when you know you want to spend that many hours with a person. I wouldn’t be comfortable being driven all that way on a first date but would like it in an established relationship. (I’m a good traveler.)
Questions can be fun and you learn a lot about how a person thinks and perceives. Discussing The Little Prince would be my idea of a good conversation but you couldn’t know that without bringing it up and asking some questions.
No contact from D yet. I already know next weekend is going to be busy for me, though I can decline an offer for a party Saturday night and go out with her if she calls. What’s your break point, dopers? If she calls on Friday do I rearrange for her? Thursday? Wednesday?
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
No contact from D yet. I already know next weekend is going to be busy for me, though I can decline an offer for a party Saturday night and go out with her if she calls. What’s your break point, dopers? If she calls on Friday do I rearrange for her? Thursday? Wednesday?
[/QUOTE]
I will rearrange for someone I really like and if they call by Thursday for Saturday, that’s enough time, IMHO
[QUOTE=Cyn]
I will rearrange for someone I really like and if they call by Thursday for Saturday, that’s enough time, IMHO
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I’m leery of this when the relationship is totally new. I don’t want to send a message that I’ll drop everything and totally accomodate her whims at the last moment. You can create your own monsters that way.
We shall see if/when she contacts me. Like I said, I have something else I’d like to do Saturday (nothing planned last Saturday…then too much this Saturday. Murphy’s Law strikes again).
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
Thanks for the replies and keep’em coming!
One issue in the back of my mind is that it’s quite possible to create your own monsters. E.g. I was raised by old-fashioned (Depression era) parents and it’s only “gentlemanly” to pay for all the dates. But, pretty soon, women expect that all the time…and there are probably some liberated women seeking to avoid the “I know you bought me dinner but I am NOT sleeping with you!” scenario.
And then on the third hand (yes, you have three hands) you’ve got women who think they’re 100% liberated yet expect men to pay for everything.
Such a crap shoot out there…is it possible that each woman is a fresh puzzle with no instruction manual, or should I be setting down my own guidelines for what I want? The ambiguity of dating is greating greater, not lesser, IME.
[/QUOTE]
After taking a long break from relationships I decided to try the online dating thing.
I’d say be honest about who you are and how you feel. Trust your instincts about the people you meet.
My general idea is financial equality. If I invite her somewhere I’ll offer to pay. If she insists on a split I’m okay with that. If she invites me then I assume she’s treating but I’ll usually ask if she wants to split it. Maybe I’m not old fashioned enough but if a lady I met expected me to pay every time I’d feel she was not the one for me. I do agree that financial situations matter. If you make a significantly more than she then pay more often. Good communication is crucial and most people will discover if they are compatible or not.
I don’t feel any obligation to be exclusive with anyone until it’s been discussed. I recommend discussing it before sex. I met a lovely lady who wanted to date exclusively after two dates and I told her I wasn’t ready for that. It bothered her and we were both honest and just went our separate ways, no drama or animosity. One thing I’ve learned to appreciate about mature women. They’re more mature 
Call the next day if you want to but I’d keep it brief. “I had a nice time and I hope we can do it again” Wait a day if that feels right. Waiting a week seems like game playing to me. If you liked her you probably want to talk right?
I find it’s hard to find the right chemistry and the shared interests and goals in the same person. In the meantime I enjoy meeting new people.
Oh, because it was mentioned. If I make plans to meet someone and they cancel that’s cool. Stuff happens. It is up to them to initiate a rescheduling. If they don’t then we’re done talking. No hard feelings.
Sounds like you have good sense and are on the right track
Here’s an interesting book link funny and realistic. Aimed at the ladies but helpful us guys too. Covers a lot of stuff being discussed here.
[QUOTE=BlinkingDuck]
Heck, if a woman you likes finds out you are dating others (so long as no promise of exclusivity were exchanged) it will increase your value in her eyes, not decrease it. She won’t like it…but, again, she doesn’t ‘have’ you yet and so can’t decide to kick you to the curb or not. She is in a position of having to approach YOU with an offer of exclusivity - not whether or not to reject your offer.
[/QUOTE]
Actually I have been in this situation and didn’t increase his value in my eyes. Mostly I thought he was being a tool and trying to come across as such a playa.
In a different situation where it was clear the guy wanted to date around, I said no worries. Also no sex, b/c I don’t swap juices. He was mostly OK with that, although he did admit later that he was surprised I was up front about no sex if he was dating around–but hey I didn’t want any nastiness passed on to me.