Evil Dead Mafia II - Teaser and Sign-Ups [Game On!]

[Mahaloth]

@Total_Lost

You say stuff like “you don’t see anyone scummy” however you spend the power on the 3rd parties. So I kind of wonder why…

Anyway - I guess I can put it too you as a question after all:
Do you find anyone behaving in a not pro-town manner?

1. I already explained my choice of how I used my power. Do you need me to explain it again?

2. I didn’t say I find no one scummy. I meant that I don’t have one top name rising to the surface with scumminess. Telcontar did, but we got him already. Yes, special, I’m mentioning that I got Telcontar.

3. Not pro-Town? Well, certainly all the talk about claiming on Day One(or breaking the game) was not pro-town. toDay? I think the scum are most likely doing a very good job laying low and avoiding acting anti-town.

[special_ed]

@Mahaloth

Deal with it. And, I was basing that tactic on the fact that I had also voted for Kelly in the previous game and gotten lynched instead of him. When he flipped scum the next Day, I vowed I would point out my successes in finding scum in the future. Since I was scum, it worked out well for me.

I’m not rubbing the whole “I got Telcontar early” thing in anyone’s face this time, though

You might not be rubbing it in people’s faces because some of us remember you doing that as Scum, and you’ve adjusted your play.

Not rubbing it in anyone’s face is not a strong defense to the accusation that you took an early opportunity to cast a vote for a teammate who was under no lynch pressure (until outed, at which point, didn’t you say, “I knew he was scummy” or something to that effect?)

[Normal_Phase]

(minor snippage)

@Oy!

@Normal Phase

@ NAF – I don’t know what more can really be said that hasn’t already been said. It’s been gone over in exhaustive and exhausting detail, hasn’t it?

1. Serious pot-stirring against NAF on day two, but never a vote. Goes so far as to say it is more plausible that NAF is lying than that he isn’t. No vote. Reasons for “suspicion” lack logic, at that. Around midday starts backing off saying he can’t think of any scum motivation for NAF, but nevertheless opens another front of suspicion over the “just vig me please” thing, which also goes nowhere.

2. Tepid defense of peeker over the course of three or four posts. Employs the exact same smudge as Telcontar did in regards to the peeker bandwagon, that it came up suspiciously fast. (And notably, Astral covered both of them in complaining, without names attached, of those who had made that smudge.) Logic used on NAF/peeker connection implies that if NAF is town, peeker is less suspicious, which is a peeker-saving way of looking at it particularly when “I’m leaning toward NAF as town” is part of the same post. The “just claim, peeker/vote peeker” post is overdone.

3. Votes Romanic on day one despite nothing in the vote post to indicate actual suspicion (one point in Romanic’s favor, one null tell). But later, Romanic’s mistake is “egregious”. Furthermore, the initial point in Romanic’s favor no longer is one.

4. Minor pot-stirring against Oredigger, again without a vote attached. Repeatedly claims that his lack of end-day vote on day one was due to being away, but there’s really no reason he could not have voted Oredigger at some earlier point – several others had. Looks like hesitance to vote a townie without something slam-dunk to fall back on, same as with NAF.

5. Minor pot-stirring against Idle in second half of day, but no vote here either. Misrepresents his own record later on when he says he was suspicious of Idle “from the get-go” when there is no evidence of that.

6. (a bit ego-centric here) Only person to question potential presence of Watcher at Chipa’s house on night one.

My problem with this is that all the points you’ve made here except number 4 and the first number 5 (you had two) could apply equally well to me, and I’m Town:

1. I thought NAF was being Scummy. Now, admittedly, I voted for him, while SP did not, but still, I agreed with SP.

SP’s lack of vote is half the issue I have with him here – when he’s going around saying it is “more likely than not” that NAF is a liar, then a vote is the only consistent action, yet he didn’t take it. The other half of the issue is the confused/inconsistent reasoning that he used, which you did not to my recollection indulge in. These are not remotely equivalent to me.

2. I thought Peeker was innocent, or at least that Peeker’s behavior was not sufficient to vote against him. I never did vote Peeker, but SP did.

I never voted peeker either, and if it were not for two things I would have considered this part of SP’s history as a null tell. First, the “yeah, show us your PM” post from Suburban, which felt instinctively false to me in a way that’s hard to explain (but it sent me looking to see if there was anything more to it). Second, the reasoning as regards peeker’s connection to NAF. Again these are things that apply to no-one but SP.

3. I thought the case on Romanic was very iffy, although it was also “egregious.” I found a single other reason to vote on him, so how does what SP did differ from what I did?

Fail to have that other reason, initially. Make a couple of posts subsequently that give the whiff of having realized that was a mistake and trying to cover.

5 (the second). I may not have questioned you on your watching Chipa (actually, I did question you about it), but I sure as hell had doubts about it. I still do, for that matter. For the moment, they are superseded by the fact that I feel your suspicion of Telcontar was sufficient to justify a Scum attack on you, but I haven’t forgotten my doubts.

You appear to have things a bit mixed up here – I never claimed to have watched Chipa, in any sense. I know that he died protecting me, hence I know that the result of the night’s actions would have been unexpected and perhaps alarming (due to the write-up showing an extra person present at Chipa’s house) to whoever did target me. Very shortly after someone offered a definition of Martyr as Bodyguard, Suburban Plankton wrote that post with the questions about the possibility of a watcher present at Chipa’s death. It fits the profile, so to speak.

So I’m left wondering, just how Scummy does SP look after all?

Scummy enough to vote for him over scummy Mahaloth and scummy lilflower and whoever else is being scummy that’s going beneath my radar. Scummy enough to make and push this case against him.

And if SP is town, well, you were the first one to push him, I think.

Depends on your definition of push – Natlaw and Stanislaus did vote him the previous day, and I did not. But I have no real argument with this, regardless.

Does that make you Scum?

No. Getting a scum PM from Storyteller would make me scum. Being wrong about Suburban Plankton would only make me wrong.

There’s enough doubt about SP that I am going to leave my vote on him. Worst case, we lynch a vanilla Town. But I must say, Normal, that if SP flips Town, I will be looking at you quite hard. It’s not a slam dunk by any means, but you’ll have my attention.*
*Please don’t take any of that personally. You’ve been lovely to me and I’ve appreciated it.

This is fine, and of course I don’t take it personally. But I do invite you to think about why I vote people and why I don’t – it has very little to do with the things you seem to think influenced my decision.

[Normal_Phase]

@Mahaloth

1. I already explained my choice of how I used my power. Do you need me to explain it again?

2. I didn’t say I find no one scummy. I meant that I don’t have one top name rising to the surface with scumminess. Telcontar did, but we got him already. Yes, special, I’m mentioning that I got Telcontar.

3. Not pro-Town? Well, certainly all the talk about claiming on Day One(or breaking the game) was not pro-town. toDay? I think the scum are most likely doing a very good job laying low and avoiding acting anti-town.

So go get the player list and find out who’s in that category. I’m dead serious. Nobody else is doing it.

[Mahaloth]

@special_ed

You might not be rubbing it in people’s faces because some of us remember you doing that as Scum, and you’ve adjusted your play.

Not rubbing it in anyone’s face is not a strong defense to the accusation that you took an early opportunity to cast a vote for a teammate who was under no lynch pressure (until outed, at which point, didn’t you say, “I knew he was scummy” or something to that effect?)

I did say I knew he was scummy, but I was just celebrating. And I agree that if I am scum in a game, I will adjust my play style. Or not. It’s WIFOM.

Hey, I know you can’t know if I’m town or not. If I’m the most scummy player in the game, lynch me. I’m vanilla now anyway and not terribly worried about dying. I even asked to be NK’ed to save us wasting a lynch.

[special_ed]

@Mahaloth

I did say I knew he was scummy, but I was just celebrating. And I agree that if I am scum in a game, I will adjust my play style. Or not. It’s WIFOM.

Hey, I know you can’t know if I’m town or not. If I’m the most scummy player in the game, lynch me. I’m vanilla now anyway and not terribly worried about dying. I even asked to be NK’ed to save us wasting a lynch.

You asked to be Night Killed? by a Vig?

Or did you mean you asked to be ModKilled?

[Mahaloth]

@special_ed

You asked to be Night Killed? by a Vig?

Or did you mean you asked to be ModKilled?

Not Modkilled. I don’t think i could share int he victory if I’m modkilled.

I said(expecting to be lynched toDay) that if we have a vig, they should kill me to save us wasting a lynch.

[Oy]

@Normal Phase

This is fine, and of course I don’t take it personally. But I do invite you to think about why I vote people and why I don’t – it has very little to do with the things you seem to think influenced my decision.

You make good points, and as a result, I am more comfortable with my vote on SP than I was. Thank you.

@Normal Phase

@Mahaloth

Not pro-Town? Well, certainly all the talk about claiming on Day One(or breaking the game) was not pro-town. toDay? I think the scum are most likely doing a very good job laying low and avoiding acting anti-town.

So go get the player list and find out who’s in that category. I’m dead serious. Nobody else is doing it.

Well, I can say for sure that NAF1138 first floated the idea of a mass claim, but I will say that he pushed for discussion of the idea rather than the idea itself. In response, Total Loss, Danish Goddess, English-speaker Extraordinaire :D, floated the idea of each of us quoting a bit of our PM. I can add now what I couldn’t add then, which is that there was no part of my PM that I possibly could have quoted that wouldn’t have at least hinted that I was a Town Power, at least in my mind. This is one of the reasons I so strongly felt these ideas were Scummy. Seeing the vanilla roles I’ve seen since, though, I see that for most players, the idea wasn’t nearly as risky as it seemed to me at the time. Heck, I’ve seen what appear to be entire PMs that still aren’t convincing to me as compellingly Town (except for the Alignments, of course, which could easily have been fiddled), and a number that suggest the exact opposite Alignment of what they actually are. Yours, Maha, for example, refers to being cold and heatless, while Suburban’s PM’s corruption is hardly screaming sweetness and light. NAF’s, on the other hand, is a bit Townie, since it describes a Cop, even though he’s vanilla (and too old for this shit).

Mind, I still think a mass claim on Day 1 was a Bad Idea. But given the vanilla roles that have surfaced, it’s not as disastrous an idea as I thought it was when it was first floated.

[Oy]

@Oy!

Yours, Maha, for example, refers to being cold and heatless

Er, that would be cold and heartless. Otherwise it’s a tad redundant.

[Natlaw]

@Mahaloth

Hey, I know you can’t know if I’m town or not. If I’m the most scummy player in the game, lynch me. I’m vanilla now anyway and not terribly worried about dying. I even asked to be NK’ed to save us wasting a lynch.

Yuck, what is it with this fatality thinking? Not unlike what Mrs. McGinty did it Today.
-If you’re vanilla it doesn’t mean you’re worthless. Asking to be vigged is not productive (especially not when you’re not even closed to be lynched).
-If you’ve defended yourself and repeated it, it is fine to go do something else (eg scum hunting)
-If you got a bandwagon against you responding to each vote with ‘oh what a bad vote, you must be scum’ does help much (I think Plankton did a bit of that Today).
-Mafia is a game where people don’t know you alignment and will vote for you, don’t take it too personal

On the case against Mahaloth based on past experience, can’t judge it (only Halloween is fresh in my mind and that’s still running).

I thought about whether I would have picked number of PFK or number of scum. The latter could be more useful to put the fear of a Godfather to rest but PFKs are harder to catch so that call is understandable as well.

I’m still happy with my vote for Plankton. He has talked a lot since (I skimmed a bit to be honest) then but he was good at that as scum in LotR but also talkative as town in Halloween. Odd contrast with his initial ignoring of my vote and then following it up with just an ‘OK then’.

[Natlaw]

Player list Rules Necronomicon ex Mortis (and vanilla PM in next post)

Day One; 1045: vote count
1079: Night One; 1089: Necronomicom details by NAF
1164: Day Two; 1187: NAF Nerconomicon power+stolen PM; 1285: vote count (followed by NPhase “Chip died protected me”); 1402: vote count; 1491: vote count
Night Two
Day Three; 1965: vote count (lynch Telcontar locked)
2156: Day Four

Claims:
Romanic - Town Hitchhiker (Special) - claim, exit post
Oredigger77 - Pharmaceutical Sales Representative (Vanilla) - claim
Oy - Novice Witch - (Inventor) - claim
Idle Thoughts - Inexperienced Religious Figure (Investigator) - 1504: claim
NAF1138 - Grizzled Cop (Vanilla) - 1514: claim
Suburban Plankton - The Crooked Local Politician (Vanilla) - 2282: claim

Stopped at 1550/page 32.

I really should keep track of these while catching up. I remember someone doing a colored vote chart but didn’t see it yet.

[Mahaloth]

@Natlaw

Yuck, what is it with this fatality thinking? Not unlike what Mrs. McGinty did it Today.
-If you’re vanilla it doesn’t mean you’re worthless. Asking to be vigged is not productive (especially not when you’re not even closed to be lynched).

Really all I meant is that:

1. At least I’m not a power role anymore.

2. Viging me would have let us kill someone else toDay, which is more productive(since I’m Town).

[Tom_Scud]

@Natlaw

I remember someone doing a colored vote chart but didn’t see it yet.

Guiri did one some time after Telcontar got marked - there has been no new public alignment information revealed since then.

[NAF1138]

I do hope that the vig out there takes the current requests by players to be killed seriously. It looks like we aren’t going to lynch Maha toDay but since he requested it, he probably should be vigged toNight.

Otherwise it’s three people who have thrown their hands up and said “oh well, just kill me” and have gotten off the hook. That’s a bad precedent. I really expected to be killed when I said it, but we probably shouldn’t allow McGinty and Maha get away with it too. (Me? I have now been investigated twice, vigging me now is silly)

[Oy]

@NAF1138

I really expected to be killed when I said it, but we probably shouldn’t allow McGinty and Maha get away with it too. (Me? I have now been investigated twice, vigging me now is silly)

My dear NAF, I still do not consider you off the hook. I will admit that the odds are rather long, but it is by no means impossible that you are a human Scum. I don’t consider you to be a good candidate for an alignment investigation, because if you’re Scum, you’re likely the Godfather. But vigging you strikes me as a perfectly crepuscular idea, neither good nor bad.

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Natlaw

-If you got a bandwagon against you responding to each vote with ‘oh what a bad vote, you must be scum’ does help much (I think Plankton did a bit of that Today).

Have I been doing that? I don’t think so, but perhaps I’m coming across differently than I think I am. The fact is, I’m certain that most of the people voting for me are Town. For one thing, the numbers pretty much demand it.

I try generally not to respond with “You voted for me, so you must be Scum”…if I’ve been doing it, please point out where, because I really don’t want to come across that way unless I can make an argument to support such a reply.
I’ve been spending the day trying to do a workup on Normal, since he’s been so keenly interested in me most of this game. But it’s been slow going, because he posts even more than I do…
I’m also interested in some of our lower-volume posters. Hal Briston and TexCat are at the top of that list, as they seem to be popping in every once in a while so we’ll know there still around, but don’t seem to have much to say. But I’ve been busy at work today so it’s been slow going. And I’ll be too busy watching the Giants in the World Series tonight to concentrate on much else, so it may be tomorrow before I have anything.
Just in case anyone still cares about opinions

[Oy]

Surburban, I feel bad for you, really. I’m just not at all sure I believe you.

But in case you are Town, have a look at lilflower and see what you think.

[Natlaw]

A bit more extensive catch up with the game. This is more a list of people to check up on than so-and-so is scummy so it probably is not much useful to others.

1. Mahaloth
   I can see the role being in the game given a similar power was Evil Dead. For the same reason that makes it a possible cover role but would a scum (with three down) take that chance to stick out his neck? (I do think Oy! used up his doll at point so that would be one less worry for scum.

2. Oy!
   The timing of the claim feels town although I wouldn’t have picked basically unknown Drain Bead to give a flower too. But Oy! is new so I can see the ‘she was nice to me’ reasoning (but he was pretty analytical in the LotR spoiled thread if I remember correctly).

3. Normal Phase
   She build an extensive case on Suburban Plankton, but also played prefectly town in Halloween as PFK.

4. Drain Bead
   Weird claim, DB is experience enough to not need to ask for advice. But it works as confirming she was wielding the power. I don’t think the mass-block (btw I called it!) was a power from the Necronomicon - seems to benign for it (no freak thunderstorms, etc). But who-made-who says Klaato bar something again? It was after all The Night the Game Stood Still :p.

5. GuiriEnEspana
   Nothing immediately spring to mind regarding this game, so a meta weak comment: in LotR DB wanted Guiri dead because he was a good player. He’s not dead so another point DB not scum?

6. Total Lost
   Nothing again except she made a comment she is playing differently. I hadn’t noticed.

7. Mrs. McGinty
   Odd freak out Today claiming noob while supposedly having experience elsewhere. Do they not make weak cases on the other forums? On the other hand it something some players just don’t deal with well.

8. special ed
   Lots of sarcastic comments. I do remember him claiming for a couple of games now there coming a new, improved Ed 2.0. Must still be in beta.

9. Texcat
   No comment.

10. Stanislaus
    Seems to be playing normally.

11. One and Only Wanderers
    No comment.

12. NAF1138
    Despite his disclaimer at the start he wouldn’t be posting much, I think it’s time for him to admit his stil addicted. His play seems consisted with his town play in Evil Dead. Despite a possible Godfather/PFK chance, I do think he’s town.

13. brewha
    I passed his unvote of Telcontar checking my bookmarks and just want to note here I want to look at that again.

14. USCDiver
    A slight town feeling based some post in the bookmarks (specifically a vote count during the peeker band wagon but I know why that makes me feel him town).

15. CometotheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
    I don’t have a feel about her and hope she flips in Halloween first so I can compare better.

16. Hal Briston
    Quiet but I think that usual for him (except for the Day One flame out in Cecil Pond I think it was?).

17. Nanook of the North Shore
    Someone called him a lurker this game (TexCat?) which I don’t see. He seems to be posting above average for him I think.

18. lilflower
    There is a case against her (I assume a little flower is not a guy?) which seems worth checking up on.

19. Suburban Plankton
    Voting for him, see previous posts.

[Oy]

@Natlaw

4. Drain Bead
   Weird claim, DB is experience enough to not need to ask for advice. But it works as confirming she was wielding the power. I don’t think the mass-block (btw I called it!) was a power from the Necronomicon - seems to benign for it (no freak thunderstorms, etc). But who-made-who says Klaato bar something again? It was after all The Night the Game Stood Still .

Ha! peeker suggested it first (in usual, twisted peeker fashion), but NAF said it at Hal Briston’s suggestion, if I’m not mistaken. However, again if I’m not mistaken, it was the Day before, not the Day of The Night the Game Stood Still.

[oog]You’re in the Netherlands, aren’t you, Natlaw? Your English is also remarkable. I can’t imagine trying to play this game in a second language.[/oog]

[Natlaw]

@Mahaloth

2. Viging me would have let us kill someone else toDay, which is more productive(since I’m Town).

Yes that is what pings about you post: I didn’t see a vote count in a while but I think Plankton is miles ahead of you. Why are you still focused on “OMG I’m going to get lynched” while you have hardly any votes?

@Suburban_Plankton

Have I been doing that? I don’t think so, but perhaps I’m coming across differently than I think I am. The fact is, I’m certain that most of the people voting for me are Town. For one thing, the numbers pretty much demand it.

Yes although it’s me reading between the line you think him scum - which might be where I got the USCDiver is towny feeling from because you (who I’m voting for) are implying he scum without saying it):

@Suburban_Plankton

@USCDiver

You know, I wasn’t sure what to think about you until I read this paragraph. Your ‘legitimate effort to locate Scum’ is indistinguishable to me from any other Scum led case, so using that as part of your defense is meaningless.

vote Suburban

Also, out of game. I’m going out of town today. I’ll be at my parents’ house where I should be able to follow along, but I’ll be pretty busy. I’ll be back Saturday.

Apparently you didn’t bother actually reading what I was saying, but whatever. You really went out on a limb here, voting for me.