No problem. You were clear enough, I just got a couple of posts confused.
Quote issues aside, I’m going to side with the “Early role claim is a bad idea” folks.
I don’t think we need a mass claim at this point. I cannot recall a game where there was a mass claim on Day 1 so I can’t say for sure it wouldn’t work but as with any claim, town is exposing their powers and giving the scum all the information they are lacking. Later in the game, a mass claim may be a good idea. Although I do see some benefit to locking the scum into a fake claim now, I know for me, a claim is more beneficial when you have some posts from the claimed player to review so as to determine whether or not you can trust the claim.
I disagree that writing off ideas when we think that the outcome is likely neutral, but are unsure, is clever. My main point is that more information is typically derived from the conversation then from the act itself, so anything that would be “safe” for town should be up for consideration. Doesn’t mean we should do it, or that we should have a long drawn out process involved, but that it should be considered rather than rejected out of hand.
Statements like “well it might be interesting but it will never work so let’s not try” are not useful and are probably actively anti town because it is that attitude that shuts down the conversation. Silence is the biggest threat to town.
As for the book, I propose we let me keep it for the foreseeable future. The reality is that it is probably better for me and everyone else if I die quickly due to things that have nothing to do with the game. I want to play, but my play time is going to be sporadic at best so I am trying to maximize the upside of the hand I have been dealt.
If you don’t want to let me keep the book, that’s cool too, but that’s my suggestion.
I only subbed in three times thankyouverymuch (I wasn’t a starter.) Also, I was killed on Nights 2, 3 and 5 (you went for someone else Night 4.)
I still remember finding out that I was vanilla Town at the start of Day 3, not by reading my role PM because I never got one. No, I had to find out by reading the Dawn post.
Why would anyone assume there is any ‘similar wording’ in the color of our PMs? In the win condition, sure…in the basic structure of the PM (e.g. role name, then powers, then color, then wincon), sure, but similar wording in the color? I wouldn’t bet on it.
I very much dislike this idea, for the same basic reason that Stanislaus gives. Looking at my own PM, I can find sections which, when taken out of context, could paint me as anything from Vanilla Town to Mr. Scummy Scum Scumderson. If we all pick random “snippets of color” to share with the class, then we’re going to spend the rest of the Day arguing things like “Why did you choose *that *particular phrase to share with us?”, or “The tone of the phrase that you posted strongly suggests that you have a Power”, or “The phrase you posted doesn’t really allow us to make a judgement, so you must have picked it on purpose that way because you’re Scum”. And God forbid someone should decide not to copy and paste from their PM (because quoting exactly might be too revealing), and accidentally makes a typo…
I think going down that path will only mean a whole lot of ‘discussion’ that ultimately leads us absolutely nowhere. Or worse, leads us exactly where certain individuals find they are able to steer us…which is directly into an easy Day 1 mislynch.
I got it now. Thanks.
The closest I’ve seen is in LOST. It nearly occurred and would have crippled scum so badly that I jumped in by giving scum cover roles and telling town I had done so.
However, I assume story has done the right thing and made the game unbreakable by a mass claim. In fact, it will probably hurt us town.
Confirming.
Sorry I’m late to the post-role discussion. My personal schedule is now quite different than it has been for most games I’ve played in the past. I work (mostly) from 9pm to 4am Pacific time, and sleep (mostly) from around 5am till 2pm Pacific.
I happen to share Drain’s world view on early mass claims. There is much fun to be had in a well-written closed setup, and I have faith that is what Story has plunked us down in the middle of. It is a different kind of fun than the fun that ensues from an open setup. Different opportunities, different risks, different intrigues, different options of play.
In general I prefer to play against players and not the mod. An early mass claim does involve some contributions from the players, but it is hugely influenced by what the mod chooses to include in PMs.
Some might see this as a contradiction to a suggestion in another game I’m currently in to consider doing a mass claim rather early, but the situations are different. In that game there was already a rash of claims and two pairs of what could be considered counter-claims. It is, indeed, all about context.
I barely even remember the Necronomicon from the first game. Was there ever a public scrum for it? I don’t know that we will be successful in reaching an early (or even late) consensus on what policy should be followed for the book, but I will participate in such discussions.
I like the idea of locking in the fake claims that the scum are using but there seems to be a streak lately by the mods of giving claims to the scum. While they are still pigeon holed into what ever they claim they know going in that there won’t be any chance of something being double claimed.
Based on the color in the posted roles and my own I’m against a color claim since I see no way we could match anything up without basically making a full claim.
As far as the book goes I don’t see any problem with NAF keeping it for now he’s an obvious target for the scum to kill if he’s town, or at least some nice WIFOM, and if there are any watcher/tracker roles there should be some good information coming from observing him and his interactions. Since we have a big target set up I don’t have any problems with keeping it there to maximize info, at least until he is sucked into hell.
No, actually the opposite. I’m saying I didn’t get a specific character name and thus I’m questioning the utility of a mass name claim.
I got the book last game by killing the guy who had it. So, unless I’m mistaken, it was given to a townie as a power and it was passed into scum (my) hands when I killed him.
So, very few people knew about it in the beginning of the game.
Ah, got ya.
I dunno, the book intrigues me and I wouldn’t mind “reading” it once or so to see what it does. I don’t understand the logic behind letting just one person keep it for awhile.
I’ll let you guys battle that one out. I put the offer out there and I fully expect something bad to happen to me eventually if I keep it long enough, but for now I can see the upside to knowing exactly who has the book at all times.
NETA: and who will have the book in the future etc etc etc.
[quote=“lilflower, post:400, topic:555493”]
<snipped>
if we are going down the handshake route can we at least get ed in here to help guide the discussion?
[quote=“peekercpa, post:414, topic:555493”]
not gunna happen
Upon re-read, I see that it was Normal’s post I was thinking of, not Drain’s.
I’m just chiming in with my two cents-I really don’t think mass claims are a good idea, especially early on. I haven’t read that many games, but I have never seen one work well unless it was done near the end of the game with a pool of confirmed townies already in place.
Yes. I tend to read my PM before playing the game.
It’s a silly little habit of mine.
You’re missing the point. If we have all players posting a “snip” of they PM Day 1. Not anything revealing their power, alignment, name - not at all.
But a snip - just a SNIP -of the color in their PM.
Then later in game if they claim we have the snip.
And they will have to claim a PM to match the snip.
They can’t just pull a false-PM out of the Story Treasure-Box. They can’t make it up to fit the play they have played.
They will have to pick a claim that matches the color-claim of Day 1 AND they game they have been playing AND it has to add up.
That’s why it’s brilliant.
It’s not a claim for us to work on right now. It data. Left for us to go back to and look at later in game. AND it should help all Town Power Roles as well - because if I guess right every Story written PM will have small little drops of color all over them.
It’s not a hand-shake. It’s more like putting your small savings in the bank for hard time to come.
But if someone indeed did claim “In real life, dogs are pleasant companions, frequently entertaining, and usually very affectionate. They can learn a number of impressive tricks, if carefully and properly trained.” the the rest of their PM would have to match this claim.
So if nothing else (and I too believe we have fake PMs for scum in this game) it wil force scum to make a choice. Right here. Day 1.
And they can’t take it back later - if they mess it up.
It’s… it’s an insurance. Don’t you see?
JSexton would be proud
But don’t you see? Either everyone will post things that don’t mean anything, or they’ll risk posting things that might give away their role or power or Vanilla-ness. And don’t you think it will be easy for Scum to fake a sentence or two they can use later?
I’m very hesitant to give up this information without knowing the ramifications.
If the concept is to force the Scum into revealing something that locks them into a claim, doesn’t that do the same thing to the power roles?
And if we intend to allow enough flexibility for the power roles to reveal something innocuous, don’t we do the same thing for the Scum?
And maybe I’m biased after I really messed up a handshaking attempt in the LotR.
However, I’m mildly suspicious of you pushing this after having played in the first Evil Dead game where you knew solid fake claims were provided to the Scum.
If I were the town doctor or cop and someone asked me to give any potentially identifiable data whatsoever, I would lie my ass off about it. I can’t speak for anyone else’s strategy, but I think that special ed summarized a lot of good points. I personally think that since the game is unlikely to contain many, if any completely standard roles, fragments of PMs won’t be particularly useful until we have a lot more information than we do now. Regardless, all we could do with an early mass-handshake or mass data sharing would be to distinguish vanilla from non, and since I assume Scum know more about who other Scum are than town power roles (masons excepted) do, Scum is in a much better position to take advantage of a large information share.
I’ll admit to some bias though- after seeing what went down in lotr, I twitch ever time I hear the word “handshake” in a mafia context.