Yes, but T2 was a completely open game with a flawed design. When the Assassin T-1000 died there was no downside to a mass claim, while their was considerable upside in that all of the power roles became confirmed town. This is a closed game, so power role claims are not immediately confirmable.
As moderator of Lord of the Rings, you have to understand that I am against a full mass claim. In any quality game, the game is setup in a way where a really early mass claim will most likely do more damage to Town than Scum.
If it doesn’t, 'the game is not well designed, such as in my LOST game. Players nearly mass claimed and broke the game. I, being a first time moderator, had to jump in and fix the game. It was embarrassing and annoying, but I did do it.
So:
It will reveal power roles to the scum team and any third party that may exist. In Lord of the Rings, they had a little list of power roles to pick off.
It will produce hours(days?) of discussion about how many “letters” or “words” we have in our PM’s. This distracts us from actual discussion and is counter-productive. Just remember Day One in Lord of the Rings.
Honestly, it’s just kind of too metagaming and isn’t about finding scum within us. It’s about taking the mechanics of the game and breaking them.
Consider me against it.
Oh, and I wish I’d been around at 3:00. I would have made a grab at the book, too.
I’m not saying that because it worked in T2 we should do it here as well.
What I said was that it has worked - but that when the idea is presented, if you have never seen it work, I get why you think it sounds like a horrible way to go.
Oredigger asked that. NAF was in fact quoting the correct post. I thought he was supporting a mass claim, whereas he was really supporting “mass bits of color.”
Most people in this game never have any “real evidence” for voting for others. They do so depending on what is suspicious, either in their opinion or something that everyone would find so.
Like I said above, nothing personal, just how the game is played.
I don’t like a mass claim either. Not at this early in the game.
Even going under the impression scum might not have fake roles, they could still lie and we wouldn’t be any closer to finding one then before…whereas they could easily pick off the stronger roles one by one in the order of their choosing.
@Idle, Suburban:
It won’t work because in all likelihood, scum have fake PMs. Storyteller helped craft the LOTR game, and in the spoiled thread he and Mahaloth were discussing how silly town was for assuming they as moderators hadn’t taken care of the possibility of a role claim or handshake.
Obviously, I can’t speak with exact certainty, but I find it highly unlikely Storyteller forgot that discussion, forgot his derision of handshakes and mass claims unbalancing a game, and screwed scum over.
So, Suburban, my third and fourth sentences DO make sense. Either scum have the tools to survive a mass claim or PM claim (that is, they have names and a PM that would pass a town smell test) or they don’t. And I don’t think those two choices are equally likely. I’m pretty sure Storyteller wouldn’t make the game that easy for us.
In a simple game a mass claim might give us “Town Cop” and “Town Doc”. I find it really hard to believe that Story have any standard roles in this game (maybe aside for vanilla, that is - and even that part was twisted in the Evil Dead no. 1).
At this point I can’t see Town getting any useful from a claim.
But I still like the idea of us claiming a bit from our role-PM.
Well, on Day One you don’t have much evidence. Later on, that becomes less and less true.
Here’s the thing. Last Night, I wasn’t going to take an adversarial position against anyone, because my alignment wasn’t yet set. Someone I argued with last night could have been my teammate this morning. Hell, Idle, that doesn’t necessarily mean Scum vs. Town–we could have ended up as Masons together, and wouldn’t that be awkward, having to totally forget about you totally smudging me?
(I wish I could remember the game where someone accused me of smudging them by lumping them into a category that included exactly one person. I can’t even remember if I was Scum in that one, although I’m pretty sure I was because, well, duh. It was pretty recent.)
Anyway, maybe it’s just the way I play, but I wasn’t about to complain too much about what you did when I wasn’t sure if we’d end up having to make nice in the Morning and have THAT be questioned. You seem to have no such qualms, which to me says you already knew we weren’t on the same team. That, or you didn’t care. Either way, anti-Town.
I am loving this games color, by the way. Very cool.
So isn’t this more of a placeholder vote, then? I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but it does sound like what you are saying. Vote the odds and change it if/when evidence arises?
As far as I can remember, Story’s stance on early mass claims is that they are generally neutral. That is, it won’t really help or hurt much. I mean, yeah it exposes power roles(Like in LOTR…ya know, the one that Town won handily?), but it also forces the scum to make choices. Cover roles or not, they have to claim SOMETHING now. Claim a vanilla? Closes off a fake power role claim later, and potentially opens up the door for a Watcher/Tracker to catch them lying. Claim a power now? Hope you can back it up. etc etc. So personally, I don’t care either way.
Someone want to explain in a little further detail the idea behind this color claim? I’m not quite sure I follow.
Oh and Drain? If I had been scum, I totally would have recruited you too. But I’m also the guy who as scum in I don’t even remember what guy, made it a point to kill Mhaye like 4 times in the same game. (He kept subbing in, and we kept killing him immediately after he did.)
I already said in an earlier post that I remembered it happening before (although I didn’t remember how many times it had happened before. I thought more than once…but it was just once).
And that one time was you, yourself.
So your reasoning there falls apart. You’re implying I knew it was you before. I didn’t.
But no matter, I still find it suspicious and it’s still something I can see scum trying to throw off the scent.
None of the rest of your post makes any sense.
I’m confused why it would be seen as a placeholder vote. I’ve already said it a few times: I found her actions of talking to scum (not once but twice) as just off putting. Something I can easily see scum trying. So, going with my gut, I’m voting.
Yes, if stronger suspicions arise, I’m not against changing my vote. This is how you play Mafia. (I know you know this already)
My bolding: Writing off ideas that probably won’t work is clever, not silly. As you point out, our time is limited and constantly decreasing. Spending half a Day deciding between a role claim or a colour claim, then enforcing participation on some suitably randomised rota (hello, time zone differences!), and finally trying to decide if we’ve actually learnt anything from the exercise, could quite easily be a big fat waste of time. If we think the chances are that story gave the scum cover roles that will let them skate through a mass claim then we should find something better to do than spin our wheels.
For example, we could try to work out a strategy to deal with the Book. We appear to have dispensed with the option of no-one picking it up in public, for some reason. Maybe we can consider that for toMorrow. Obviously our goal is for the book to remain in the hands of confirmed, protected Town. However, for a Town member to achieve the condition of being both confirmed and protected is no easy process so we’re going to have to busk it for a while.
For now, we at least know who has the Book during the Day. During the Night, given that ownership of the Book comes at the cost of using other Powers, I’m inclined to expect that our vanillas will be first in line for it. The question is whether they should announce their ownership, and when. I’m inclined to think that whoever had the Book should admit it immediately after Dawn. This will at least give us a “chain of custody” which, as we fill in role/side info as the game progresses, will at least tell us who’s been reading it.
I strongly recommend that toMorrow, we leave the Book where it is. That is to say, unless and until we collectively agree that a named player should pick up the Book, we will lynch any player who picks up the Book. Anyone who wants to have a read is welcome to make a case for why they should. However, as per my early comments about time, this decision should be made either in the first twelve hours after Dawn or (my probable preference) in parallel to the ordinary business of the lynch. That is, we can keep hunting Scum even while we make a decision about the Book.
And which other plans might those be? I’m just wondering why the WIFOM, you know? I was actually with you on the DON’T RECRUIT ME BEYOTCHES bit, because I’ve been there, but what were you trying to communicate here?
May as well get the suspicion out of the way early, because you know it’s going to be there.
Is there much of a difference? Have you seen the role PMs from the first Evil Dead game? There’s not much of the color you could quote without giving away your role… Here’s a small selection of role PMs:[spoiler]
[/spoiler]And, I’ll note that in that game there were two types of vanilla but both shared the majority of color - if that’s the case in this game, a partial quote from our role PMs could have the same effect as the VT handshake in LOTR.
Of course we could always post a hash of our role PMs.
Nope, I meant to quote what I quoted. I was addressing two separate topics in that single post. I’ll do my best to be a little more clear about that sort of thing in the future.
I’m really not sure where we think a colour claim gets us. Going from Guiri’s reposted ED1 PMs, we either get something like this:
Which doesn’t tell us anything but on the other hand doesn’t tell us anything, or this:
Which pretty much just screams “Power Role! I’m a Power Role! That’s me, here, with the role with the powers.”
Can one of the advocates explain exactly what we expect to get out of this plan? Because my general instinct is no (see my previous post) and I’m not sure I see the advantage for us in this particular variation.
(I know you know this already)