it’s the case she made against herself.
Not if they were provided a fake vanilla claim, no. Then she just would have claimed vanilla and been done with it. I can only see the power role claim if she were a) Town or b) Scum who had not been provided with a fake vanilla claim.
And to answer NAF, my guess was that Oy! was vanilla. You can see I posted something to that effect, pre-claim. After the claim, I am pretty damn certain she’s a power role. Hence my post.
Here’s a question for you, NAF. When you outed her, did you believe her more likely to be a Town power role or Scum? You seemed to have discounted the possibility of her being vanilla entirely, so we’re stuck between those two. Which did you think more likely at the time, and why?
neta: fuck the last post was snipped a touch.
I KNOW youre whooshing me, but, tea the meal, not tea the drink
You are wrong.
There is *no *situation that I can think of where it is not better for town to play with transparency. Let’s leave off the fact that she might have been scum, and a good lynch candidate if that was true.
Even if it was impossible for her to be scum, if I saw it, and others saw it, then scum saw it. Why be quiet about something that everyone is seeing? How does that help town? Remember town’s goal in this game is to gain information so they can find scum. How is actively ignoring available information helpful to achieving that goal? How is stopping communication conducive to the teamwork that is necessary for town to win these games with anything other than luck.
If you don’t feel like doing a WOW on me, do just a read of my posts in this game. Come back and point to any of them that forward a scum agenda and I won’t bother you anymore. But this vote is wrong headed if it is based only on me pointing out Oy!'s slip.
So you aren’t vanilla either, that’s good to know I guess.
I wasn’t sure DB, just like I am not sure about you. I think I was probably leaning a touch to the town side because her other posts have indicated that she was likely new town and not new scum, but that wasn’t strong enough for me to be sure. Put it at maybe 60% town 40% scum.
I am leaning a bit toward scum with you though. Are you a role-blocker this game as well?
A general observation on Oredigger. I’m beginning to think he’s a PFK type.
He seems very intent on his own survival (see, particularly, his reaction to Oy’s suggestion.) Now, he’s played enough to grasp that Mafia is a team game, so he shouldn’t be worrying about his own survival per se, but what it will mean to his team. Unless he’s a team of one, of course.
The case Mrs. McGinty made against himself is fairly convincing as well. I don’t subscribe to the notion that in order to vote Mrs. McG I have to find a better case. I just have to decide whether he made it as a Deadite[sup]1[/sup] to pull the teeth of the Town, or as a Townie to get the worst about him out into the open.
And I keep thinking that she’s dead already.
I’m currently compiling a vote chart of the current state, and fairly soon I will have to switch attention to Halloween for the run up to the lynch. So I’m likely to vote tomorrow (Saturday) morning.
[sup]1[/sup]To avoid a repeat of LotR; for the moment I am assuming that the bad guys in the first game are making a comeback in the second, mainly because (a) this is a sequel and (b) First Assistant turned into a Deadite.
NAF: I don’t consider it to have been obvious that Oy was either a power role or scum. I, and drainbead apparently, thought it was still possible that she was vanilla. I’d be interested in your answers to drain’s question as well.
As far as I can tell, the consistent daytime scum agenda is to not die. Ideally to kill town, but mostly not to die. So, apart from what we’re all doing, trying to lynch someone who is not-us, the only factor that distinguishes town from scum is that town is trying to be picky about who they kill, whereas scum is indiscriminant. Hence smudging as a scum tell etc. I’m suspicious of you because you were fishing, pretty blatantly, in a case where it was more likely to hurt town than scum. You claim that “scum do not need to fish”. i think you’re wrong, and that there’s a meaningful probability that you’re scum.
Another point in favor of Oy being Town post-claim is that the claim was made quickly. In a game with no post restrictions, where it was said in the rules that anyone can strategize at any time on any board they have access to, one would think that the Scum team would have waited to get her to claim and fixed those portions of the claim that seemed Scummy. It’s obvious that the last portion of her claim that I think is Townie was not part of a Scum role that was missed in editing–why would a Scum role NEED protection against Scum kills?
Oh goodness. I disagree completely here. Oy had made that ambiguous statement, the one that seemed to leave open the possibility that she is vanilla. NAF has stated (and I agree it would have been appropriate) that if she had in fact claimed vanilla after the initial slip, he would have voted her. That gives him unquestionably legitimate motive to pursue the question.
Now as for the consequences: if Oy does not claim, she is very unlikely to find herself a protector for the night. Scum could and probably would shoot with impunity – what better alternative do they have? So for her not to claim, if she’s town, is essentially to abandon herself to death for no gain to the town. This way, on the other hand, the mafia have to deal with the WIFOM. Will she or will she not be protected? Will she or will she not be watched? They may well shoot elsewhere. And then not only do we get the information from that player’s alignment and interactions, but we also get information from Oy herself. This is not necessarily a town-unfriendly trade. It could even turn out quite good for us.
I could add in an obligatory paragraph about the trade-offs if Oy is scum, but I don’t think she is.
As for you, Telcontar, I’ve noticed a certain tendency toward rigidness in scum players, both myself and others. It’s like they have a list of “X, Y and Z is scummy behavior” in their heads and they’re reluctant to deviate from it, because if they do, they’re left with nothing to vote for. You have a certain whiff in this post of “forcing a claim is scummy, period” and forget the circumstances. Not enough to vote for in itself, but it’s there.
Why more suspicious than NAF? Or do you just mean more suspicious than you currently are reading him?
Oh really? I don’t get this seeming connection between Chip and Oredigger. I doubt even NAF does, who was the first to bring up the possibility of a distraction being intended. There’s no reason it should have been Chip’s vote in particular, if it happened at all. So please – what “lot of it” from Chipacabra puts him into a bad light currently assuming Ore might be scum, but would turn into a null tell if Ore is town?
I don’t buy this whole paragraph, honestly. It looks fake.
I have the same problem with this paragraph as I have with Mrs McGinty’s approach to Romanic in the first place. Peeker’s case may be right and it may be wrong, but there’s nothing actually misguided about it. There’s no reason whatsoever not to buy it unless you are more confident than you should be that Mrs McGinty is town.
Useful information, and on that much I agree. But I’m voting for you anyway. Oredigger has plenty of votes, and I always prefer making my own case when I can.
unvote
vote: Telcontar
NAF, what about your whole argument earlier that scum don’t fish because town power out themselves anyway. That suggest you think the odds of Oy’s slip would be of a town power? Why don’t you use that when determining whether she town/scum now?
:dubious: I can always make a better case against myself when I’m scum than someone else can make. I know every single bloody handprint I’ve left behind, even the ones that no one else notices.
Anyway. Peeker is whatever he is, but regardless, I do not think the case itself is suspect.
Where on EARTH do you get that I’m not Vanilla from that post?
Here’s the thing, NAF. I completely disagree with your assertion that transparency is always best. This is due to having played in Cecil Pond. I was part of a masonry with Meeko and Freudian Slit. Meeko voted for a TON of people one Day and then later that Day claimed Mason. Because of this, it became somewhat clear that Freudian was another Mason (I think I was already out at the time). The Scum did NOT catch this error, as I learned post-game. Sachertorte, a Townie, did, and proceeded to post the fact that Meeko’s voting record exposed the other Mason in the thread. Freudian died that Night, and likely would not have if sach hadn’t posted what he did. Scum ended up winning that game, in part due to this series of errors.
NEVER, EVER do anything that has the potential of exposing another Town power role. If the Scum catches it, there’s nothing you can do, but there’s always the chance the Scum didn’t. By doing what you did here, you’ve removed all doubt.
I think you’re Town or at worst a non-killing PFK, because Scum, especially in a game that allows day-strategy for Scum, would have known that Oy! was a power role at that point, kept their mouths shut, and simply killed her at Night. But that doesn’t mean I can’t wholeheartedly disagree with what you’ve done here.
Storyteller gave discarded town power roles to scum for cover in Evil Dead so why wouldn’t a cover role have powers that are not that useful to scum?
I do agree that the quick claim is more likely to be made by a town Oy.
I see no reason to think Naf is scummy for calling out Oy. I picked up that she was not VT and I"m capt oblivious. So, if I saw it, I guarantee that at least one scum did too. And when they convene tonight (assuming that they can’t talk during the day) they will certainly have a talk about it.
Frankly, I think Telcontar’s pursuit of NAF is the scummiest thing I’ve read yet.
May as well make it official
Vote Telcontar
Drain Bead, I do agree that transparency is not always the best route. The best route would have been for our town protector (assuming we have one) to have picked up on Oy!'s comment and protected her tonight without anyone mentioning it. Scum would have likely targeted her and wasted a night kill. However, that puts alot of faith in a role that may not exist or that may be occupied by one of our non posting group.
Under the circumstances, I think it was best to get it out in theopen.
Because you believed that Oy! was vanilla, and after seeing Oredigger’s claim and Story’s sample PM I do not believe it is possible for a vanilla townie to have seen Oy’s post and the subsequent discussion and still believe that she was vanilla.
That said, I think brewha’s recent post sums up why I feel that your viewpoint is too narrow, better than I can. I think we may have to agree to disagree on the topic for now though.
Also, if I haven’t already, unvote
I don’t think Digger is the best lynch candidate anymore. I am not sure who is yet, but I don’t think it’s him.
OK, I"m caught up.
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Did Oy explain to us why she claimed? I didn’t see that one coming. Was it to draw protection?
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I think Oredigger should have placed a real vote.
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I think Telcontar is scummy mcscumbag and was stunned to see that NAF picked up on the exact things I did. Telcontar’s entire argument sounds like the kind of one I’ve seen him collaborate on with scum in other games. Since they have Day-talking in this game, I think he has worked up a case he can present as reasonable against NAF.
Unvote Oredigger
Vote Telcontar
Let me fix that.
Unvote Oredigger
Vote Telcontar
Missed this before.
It doesn’t work unless you know who the scum are because a lot of the time the way they broadcast is in a way like this where it could go either scum or town.
Already been answered (many)…but specifically, my Super Mario Brothers one was like this.
To be a bit more specific, I think there are four. If you’re going to make a distinction between Vanilla Town and Power Town, then I’d have to say the other two would be Demon scum and Malicious Third Party scum.
I’m still happy with my vote on Ore. This is one of the most happening Day Ones I’ve seen, though.