Family drama--need advice

In My Humble Opinion
1

First the players and the background, then the problem (names have been changed, blah, blah, blah):

My sister’s husband, Greg, is a complete jackass. He is selfish, self-centered, arrogant, and not particularly bright. My entire family (except for my sister) loathes him. Greg and Liz (my sister) have a 5 year old daughter, Jen, who is incredibly sweet and bright. My father is a difficult man, to say the least. He is pretty self-centered with an incredibly short fuse so he and Greg butt heads a lot. My mother is completely harmless but Greg is a bit of a jerk to her anyway. She doesn’t like him either.

In the fall of 2003, Greg, Liz, and Jen moved in with my parents while they had a new house built. They did not pay rent and they turned my parents’ house upside down with furniture crammed into hallways, etc., instead of putting it into storage. What was supposed to be a three or four month stay turned into ten months and there were several blow ups between my father and Greg.

On top of this, I know that Greg is verbally and emotionally abusive to my sister and niece. I do not believe there is physical abuse but at the same time, it wouldn’t surprise me. I have intended, for several months, to talk to Liz to tell her my concerns and to simply let her know that I am there to support her but haven’t done so.

So, the problem: Greg and Liz are having an open house tomorrow afternoon. They invited me and my other sister, Sydney, and Sydney’s family (I think). They have invited all of Greg’s family and have invited neighbors and friends. They have not invited my parents. My mother called Liz this morning to invite her and the family to my parents’ house tomorrow afternoon. Jen answered the phone and said that they couldn’t go because they were having a party and that her mom (Liz) wanted to invite my parents but her daddy (Greg The Jerk) wouldn’t let her. At that point, I believe my sister picked up the phone and said that only Greg’s family was invited, an outright lie. My mother doesn’t know that Sydney and I have been invited.

I assumed my parents were invited. I want to call Liz and tell her that I think this is incredibly shitty behavior and that if my parents aren’t good enough to be invited to the “open house” then fuck it, I’m not going. If asked, I will lie to my mother and say that I was NOT invited–not to bail out my sister but because my mother would be incredibly hurt. So, my plan is to call Liz and tell her I’m not going to her house and why I’m not going to her house and to tell her that they have put me and Sydney in an incredibly awkward position and to tell her that her husband is a complete fucking asshole and she’s behaving like one as well.

If I weren’t concerned about Liz and Jen, this would be easy, but I’m worried that this could, in fact, result in a serious estrangement in the family and/or some seriously hurt feelings on the part of my parents. That’s really my primary concern.

So, what should I do? I feel strongly that I need to tell Liz that she and Greg’s behavior is abominable. I just remembered something else–my entire family got together on Dec. 26 to celebrate Christmas at my parents house. Greg’s mother was visiting from out of state and so she came along, which was fine–it’s the holidays, right? So now, less than a week later, Greg and Liz have essentially kicked my parents in the teeth.

Jerks.

So, thoughts, advice, condolences, me-too stories, etc. are very welcome…

P.S. Mods–feel free to move to the Pit if necessary.

2

If your primary concern is whether an estrangement or other permanent damage may result from your confronting Liz about it all, then I think you should simply decline the invitation and not spread any more information around. If pressed for a reason for declining, I guess you could say you thought it’d hurt your parents’ feelings, or just say never mind why.

Whether you can broach Liz’s situation with her and offer some kind of support depends on the two of you and your relationship, but this sounds like a less easy time to make that work in any case.

Breaking the news to a fucking asshole that that’s what they are sounds like lots of potential for damage.

FWIW I think it’s more important to be gracious with your family than it is to like them - or said another way being gracious is something good you can do whereas liking them is something that kind of has to happen on its own.

And do whatever you can that you think would help Jen - she sounds like a peach.

3

You could always go to the party, feign ignorance, ask where your parents are, then loudly and belligerantly state “My parents put your entire family up for 10 months rent-free and you won’t even invite them to your open house party? What a bunch of ingrates, we’re leaving!”

Of course, this will do nothing whatsoever to repair the problem, but it might feel pretty good to make Greg look like the biggest ass ever in front of his whole family.

The nicer thing to do is just not go, and make it very clear to Liz why you’re not going. I wouldn’t lie to your mom either, she deserves to know where she stands.

4

I see no problem with this…what does Sydney think about this? Will she also boycott the open house?

5

Oh, and BTW, what the hell were they thinking inviting you and Syndey to the party, do they think you’ll never have cause to mention it to Mom and Dad, or that you wouldn’t somehow notice they’re not at the party? It’s impossible for M&D to not find out they were snubbed.

6

I am going to try out the contrarian position here.

Greg doesn’t like your parents. There is a party at his house, and he doesn’t invite them. How big of a deal is that, really?

Yes, Greg and your sister lived for 10 months rent free w/ your parents. It wasn’t conflict-free. Greg may have seen this as the best choice among several not-so-great options. The parents, or at least you, seem to have had some expectations that their hospitality would be repaid by certain conduct. It’s not so much that these expectations were unreasonable, but it doesn’t sound like they were clear to all parties. (Small example–the storage of furniture. That needs to be worked out in the moment, not lorded over someone months later)

This sounds like an overall situation with all kinds of potentially serious family dysfunction, possibly even abuse, but the particular situation is not the right battle to pick.

They can invite who they want, you can attend or not.

And little Jen (I can really sympathize with her, but…) needs to not get in the habit of stirring the pot. At 5, maybe she really just doesn’t know. But if she gets rewarded for stirring up family sentiment against her dad, that is a bad thing. It’s how kids learn to play grownups against one another.

IMHO - I would take a complete pass on getting involved in this one. Find something else to do. Let Liz and parents handle this any way they want. When dust has settled, have that serious conversation you’re considering with Liz about her safety. Be there for herif she needs you.

7

Cheesesteak, I think that’s kind of the point. They know good and well this is going to get back to Mom and Dad. This invite-the-sisters-but-not-the-parents thing is just a passive-aggressive tactic to let Mom and Dad know they’re displeased without actually having to say something about it. It’s shitty and cowardly and obnoxious, but it’s also the way a whole whopping lot of people are. Rather than actually say, “Hey, you’re pissing me off,” they’ll tell everyone else how Whatshisface is pissing them off, so that these people will then tell Whatshisface about the issue. And then, if they want to be extra bitchy, they can then excoriate those same people for being gossips and tattletales. Like I said, shitty and cowardly and obnoxious, but all too common.

Personally, I think you missed your golden opportunity when Liz said that only the inlaws were invited. That was the perfect time to ask, “Well, if it’s only his family, why are Sydney and I invited? Last time I checked, we were your sisters.” Call her on her bullshit right when she starts flinging it, in other words.

If it were me, I think I’d probably just call her up and say that you’d decided not to come, since you didn’t want to intrude on a gathering of just his family. It was ever so sweet of her to include you so as not to hurt your feelings, but you don’t want to take advantage of her gracious nature and abuse her hospitality by horning your way in. She’s awfully nice to think of you, you’d love to have a gathering for your side of the family another time, blah de blah de blah. It allows you to make your point while still allowing her to save face. And if she has the slightest bit of decency, it will make her feel guilty.

Basically, it’s letting her know that you know what’s going on without actually having to say, “Look, asshole, I hate you and your shithead husband, and I think the way you’re treating our parents is just despicable.” Saying stuff like that can be very satisfying at the time, but it also makes it very much harder to reconcile later. Because, you know, once something like that is out there, you can’t ever take it back. It will always be between you to some extent.

8

It sounds like Greg and your father need a time out from each other.

By your admission, they’re both difficult people, they clash, they don’t get along well, and there’s probably plenty of blame on both sides. Yet, they had to live together in the same house under less-than-ideal circumstances. It’s not surprising if they don’t want to be around one another right now. Long-term family harmony might best be served by short-term avoidance.

Yes, it was ungracious of Greg not to invite your parents; but maybe right now it’s for the best that they don’t go.

On preview, I guess I agre with Harriet the Spry.

9

If I turned my home and family upside down for 10 months to accomodate my daughter and son in law while they built a home, and they turned around and couldn’t be cordial enough to invite me to celebrate their inhabitance of that home, my feelings would be beyond hurt. The phrase “pissed beyond belief” keeps typing itself, even though I’ve erased it a couple of times.

This is a once in a lifetime event, after the parents have been kind enough (asshole episodes included) to tolerate the upheaval to their home for 10 expletive deleted months. How would it hurt for the son in law and the father in law to be nice to one another for a few hours?

I know I should delete this before hitting submit but I’m going to post it anyway.

:smack:

10

Oops, I misread the part about how it was your mom who called and got lied to. That’s extra-weasely, imo.

And I would totally agree with Harriet and Thudlow if this were just some guy your sis likes and your bil doesn’t. But it’s not. It’s her dad. Like your inlaws or loathe them, they’re generally people your spouse loves and as such they deserve a certain amount of respect and consideration. For your spouse’s sake, if nothing else. Inviting everyone and his dog, while conspicuously excluding one couple, is shitty and disrespectful. It’s third-grade playground horseshit. Nobody deserves to be treated that way, especially not people your spouse loves.

People who have housed you and your family for the better part of year out of the goodness of their heart especially don’t deserve to be treated that way.

11

No matter what you do at the party (my gut instinct says to decline the invite, but it’s up to you), I think you need to sit down with your sister and talk to her seriously about Greg and how he’s disrupting the family, and perhaps (if you feel comfortable enough) any allegations or suspicions of abuse. It sounds like things are coming to a head and the behaviour–both your sister’s and her husband’s–needs to be resolved.

12

I’m also wondering if there has been more to it than just “butting heads” between Greg and your dad. Could there have been more intense arguments, things said that can’t be chalked up to the tension of all being in the same house? Has your dad been told about being left out of the invite list? I bet that went over well.

Sorry so many questions. I know these situations are difficult. My husband and I had his daughter and her new husband live with us in our tiny house for 3 months! We love them but it was a tough road, especially when one of them wasn’t working and we were barely able to scrape up rent, etc. We were happy to be able to help them, but we were overjoyed when they moved into their new place. I can only imagine how tough that would be having people you DON’T like living in your house!

I don’t think much will be accomplished right now while tensions are high. I would suggest waiting for the smoke to clear, let them get settled into their home and maybe YOU have a gathering at your house and have everyone try to clear the air. Make an appearance at the house warming but don’t stay long. Once there is some distance from the “confrontations” your dad and Greg have had and they are not in close quarters maybe fences can be mended. But then again, Greg doesn’t necessarily sound like someone that will listen to reason.

It also concerns me that your sis won’t stand up more to Greg and just say, “Your family is coming…so is mine–end of discussion”.

13

I was going to say something similar, but you beat me to it and said it better than I could. Sis has to have known that inviting KSO would mean it would get back to Mom and Dad that they weren’t invited.

If Dad and Greg need a break from each other, the parents certainly have the option to decline, but to just coldly exclude them altogether? Uh-uh.

14

Absolutely; no question about it.

If you’re a reasonable, gracious person and someone does you a really big favor, you go out of your way to be nice to them and show them gratitude.

If you’re “selfish, self-centered, arrogant, and not particularly bright” and somebody does you a really big favor, you typically resent them for it because it puts you in their debt; they’re one up on you and get to feel superior to you.

15

KSO, first, let a burden slip from your shoulders. It is not your responsibility to fix this. The problem is between your sister and her husband on one side and your mom and dad on the other. It may have more demensions than you can see. There may be things that you don’t know.

It is certainly fine to let your sister know that you are there for her emotional support whenever she needs you. She is the one who has to decide what is best for her and the child. Encourage open and honest communication among everyone. Refuse to lie for anyone. And, for the welfare of your sister, don’t blow up at her husband – although it would certainly feel good, I’m sure.

Whether or not you go to the party is your choice, but please don’t tell lies about it. That will hurt everyone more in the long run.

No matter how difficult things get on either side, stay in touch with both sides. Don’t let anyone force you into choosing sides.

Vent your anger in another direction like exercise or counselling until the other parties can work through this. I hope that someday you will be able to speak about it to those directly involved – but at a time when it won’t make things worse.

16

I truly appreciate all the advice and comments. As I thought this over, I realized that the real sticking point is that I KNOW this is all Greg–my sister is probably the most thoughtful of the four kids in my family and actually has the best relationship with my parents.

I called Liz this afternoon to tell her I wouldn’t attend tomorrow. She burst into tears because SHE’S so upset by Greg’s behavior. This party started out as a party for his family–that’s all well and good and if it had stayed that way, there wouldn’t have been any issue whatsoever. But Greg started inviting various friends and coworkers so, finally, Liz said she wanted to invite my parents and my aunt and uncle. Greg objected saying things were getting “out of control”–never mind that Liz would be doing all the work anyway. And the bottom line is that pretty much everyone they socialize with in any way, shape, or form has been invited, except for my parents.

I didn’t come out swinging at her–I specifically said I wasn’t calling to upset her or cause a problem but that I thought not inviting my parents was rude and ill-mannered, particularly in light of all they’ve done for Liz and Greg over the past year and that I wouldn’t be attending. I also told her I was concerned about her and Jen because I don’t like how he treats the two of them. She was just a wreck and I felt terrible–I still feel terrible because I made her feel like crap and probably caused a big fight between her and Greg. I know he’s a PITA and I feel like I’ve added to, rather than subtracted from, her problems.

Then she threw a curveball to the effect that, really, this is all her fault because Greg had suggested having my parents over for dinner some night between Christmas and New Years and she had just been “too lazy” to do that. I was completely flummoxed by that comment and strongly told her that she had done nothing wrong and this situation was not her fault at all. And that still wouldn’t change the fact that everyone on God’s green earth has been invited to the damn open house except my parents.

I am not going to tell my mom that Sydney and I were invited–that’s to protect my mom. If she asks me about it point blank, I’ll tell the truth but I truly hope it doesn’t come to that.

Finally, my mom told me that after Jen relayed the news this morning, she offered to bake my mom a chocolate chip cookie in her new Easy-Bake oven and asked “How would that be?”, as a consolation prize, I guess. :slight_smile:

The conversation ended on an okay note–I told her I love her very much and am there for her whenever she needs to talk about anything that’s going on. I need to not beat myself up, but it’s hard.

Thanks again, everyone.

17

I grew up with a father like Greg, but worse.

Call your sister on her behavior. The fact that she is married to an abusive prick does not give her an excuse for how she is treating her family. By giving in to him, she is acting like a jerk, too.

Nobody ever challenged my mom for giving in to my dad’s assinine demands, or brought his behavior up to her, or held her to account for staying with such a bastard. I firmly believe this is why she is still with him, 37 years into their horrific marriage.

When the people around a woman in this situation give her a pass and say, “Well, it’s Greg (or Bob), you know, not Lisa (or Joyce), she has no choice,” the woman begins to believe that she has no choice–which is b.s. Being married to an asshole is no excuse for becoming one yourself. Rebellion and divorce are always options.

You’re not doing your sister any favors by giving her a pass on this. Let her know, politely but firmly, what you think of her behavior.

18

I shouldn’t post while drinking champagne; I forget to read the whole thread.

My attitude about your sister’s situation stands, though. Cutting her slack and not mentioning that she’s married to a dick will only hurt her in the long run.

My dad was verbally and physically abusive to me. The verbal/emotional abuse was way, way worse, and I’m still messed up from it today. You should encourage Liz to leave him (as much as you feel you can, given your/her situation, etc.) Jan deserves better.

19

I noticed that no one pointed out that in abusive, controlling relationships, the abuser often tries to isolate his (or her) victim from said victim’s family and friends, as a way of having ultimate control over her.

Could this be the case here?

20

Well, note: KSO says this: “Then she threw a curveball to the effect that, really, this is all her fault because Greg had suggested having my parents over for dinner some night between Christmas and New Years and she had just been “too lazy” to do that.”

Yes, see? It’s all her fault. Isn’t it? It’s her fault he’s a jerk, if she’d only done X, or Y, this never would have happened.

Classic. Unfortunately.