(Not my) family drama...how to interfere without interfering?

In My Humble Opinion
1

One of my oldest and dearest friends (known him and his whole crazy family for nearly 30 yrs now) has a son who 12 months ago married a sweet young girl. For the purposes of this story, we’ll call him Jack and her Mary. Jack had been in the army when they met…she got pregnant, they moved in together, he left the army and they now have two little tackers. Jack is now 26 and Mary is 24 yrs old. They live in Victoria now but all of her family are in South Australia. For the purposes of this story, it should be mentioned that her family are strictly religious folk who have no interest in their daughter because she ‘had’ to get married, and show no interest in their grandkids either.

Jack is proving to be an arsehole extraordinaire of a partner. I have no reason to believe (yet) that he is physically abusing Mary, but all the other abuse ‘boxes’ are being ticked regularly.

She is a SAHM, literally. No car, and no license means she is stuck at home almost 24/7. Jack will NOT take her out with the children as he apparently finds them an embarrassment or something. He leaves home @5am to go to the gym, then straight to work (he’s a tradie) then doesn’t return home until late in the evening when he demands his meal (often insisting that the whole family wait until he is home so they can all sit down together…except the kids are 18m and 3yrs old and we ALL know what kids are like when it’s two hrs past their normal dinnertime and they’re tired AND hungry).

Weekends are spent hanging out with his dad* and uncles (both uncles dropkicks with a taste for drugs and gambling).

He won’t take her shopping, nor will he do the shopping either. The reason being that it is just plain WRONG to walk around with a shopping-list in the supermarket…I can’t figure this one out either: so most of their shopping is done online, and home delivered, giving her even less of an opportunity to get out of the house.

He insists that the children be dressed in ‘special’ ways, ie, the little girl (the toddler) is not allowed to wear little girlie clothes, and both of the kids have to wear appropriate colours. Things like no red with yellow, or green with black or whatever particular colour combinations he finds ‘wrong’.

She has no allowance to spend on herself: in Australia there is a payment that generally goes directly to the mother (Family Payment) but *that *is used to pay for two days childcare for the older boy. Except that Jack just sometimes refuses to drive him to daycare…Mary has no way of getting him there by herself. Fees are still payable, attendance or not.

He’s verbally abusive, complains that she is a fat, lazy slob ('What the fuck do you DO all day??) and their sex life is virtually non-existent. And she seems so scared all the time: I don’t see her often, but when I do, it’s painful to watch. I have NOT seen Jack and Mary together since their wedding. What’s worse is that Mary seems resigned to this being her future…that this is what marriage and relationships are all about! Her youth and naivety just make me want to cry.

Now here’s my dilemma: if she was my peer and/or friend, I’d be advising her to GTFO of there, NOW, before things get worse. But it’s MY daughter who is giving me this information (in strict confidence at this point).

It was me who set up the initial meetup between the two newish mums. My daughter had just moved back to Melbourne with two little kids, and Mary didn’t know anybody here, so I organised a coffee morning and things have taken off from there. They catch up a couple of times a week, Pip often driving Mary to appointments and stuff or just packing picnic to go to the park to get out of the house with the kids. It’s proving to be a lovely friendship, but fuck…

I will NOT be approaching Jack, and am now somewhat reluctant to approach my ‘oldest and dearest friend’ (Jack’s father) as word on the grapevine has it that his almost monthly jaunts to SE Asia are to visit ‘another’ wife. (He is married here in Australia, but his wife suffers from sometimes debilitating mental illness). IOW, expecting him to have a serious word with his son about his treatment of his wife is hypocritically laughable now. The rest of the family are a lost fucking cause.

Gaaaaah, I hate standing by and watching trainwrecks. Yes, I DO acknowledge that that is exactly what I have to do until Mary decides she wants to change her predicament. I’m seeing her today, and if nothing else I wll be offering her some driving lessons: Pip can look after her babies for an hour or two each weekend, and I’ll play driving instructor. At least if she’s got wheels, she’s got a way of getting OUT.

Any other suggestions gratefully considered.

2

Driving lessons are a great start! While you’re with her, try acknowledging that often things aren’t quite as they may seem. Sometimes they are better, sometimes much worse. Then make your offer." If the day ever comes, I’m just a friend, won’t judge, on my word, just help. Whatever help you might need. Just make a call, and I’m here."

And then leave it alone when she brushes it aside. Let her make her own connections on why you’ve made this offer.

But before wading into that deep water, take a moment to refect on how you will handle it, should you get her out, then she returns to him! On some pretext or other. Most women leave abusive relationships more than once, before it really takes. I’m just saying go in with your eyes open.

3

Random thoughts:

Sometimes I make a decision by asking myself, “What are the potential consequences of a miscalculation?” IOW, is this a dire enough situation that something really bad could happen if I make the wrong decision? In this sitch, I’d say yes.

What’s the worst thing that might happen if you intervene? Everyone gets mad at you? Mary never leaves? Your intervention has no effect?

What’s the worst thing that might happen if you don’t intervene? He might kill her. Eventually.

She may not have the faintest idea that there is any way out. Maybe she’s given up because she sees no exit.

Another consideration WRT you: are you more likely to regret butting in or NOT butting in? If ten years from now she’s still married to him, will you wish you had butted in? If you butt in and nothing happens, will you wish you hadn’t, or be glad you did anyway?

In the end, you have to do what you feel is right regardless of what others think. You have to look at yourself in the mirror every morning and feel okay.

Finally, I’m the kind of person who would rather regret stuff I DID than stuff I DIDN’T DO.

I would probably butt in.

4

I’m in my mid-fifties now and have seen plenty of close friends do that exact thing…some for the better in the end, but many for the worse. I’ve been around the block once or twice you might say…rescuing people got real old real quick!

And of course there were the ones who would rant and rave and make all sorts of very serious accusations against partners (including child sexual abuse for example). On one occasion, I had to make VERY SINCERE apology to a husband for encouraging his wife to take formal action against him that was later found to be some weird vindictive fantasy she had conjured up in her addled mind. (She was later diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, but back then she was just a bit ‘eccentric’) So nowadays, I don’t necessarily believe everything I hear either.

Thus the need to tread very carefully, but to be mindful and (somewhat) available if things go arse up for her. And yes, I’ve had many a family over the years ‘move in’ with me while they get their shit together: that ain’t happening either. I’m a veritable walking encyclopedia of social and community welfare services in this city nowadays…:smiley:

5

Does Australia have a hotline telephone number Mary can call to help her leave if she feels in danger? Or just someplace she can call if she’s being abused and wants to get out?

6

So what’s a “tradie”? And yes, the situation you describe is very wrong.

7

I’m guessing a stockbroker.

Was she raised this way? Maybe she doesn’t know that marriages aren’t supposed to be like this.

:frowning:

8

Disengage. You are getting the story third-hand. You may end up getting killed, and, if she leaves him, he may track her down and kill her. Far-fetched? You tell me.

You may be surprised what a married woman knows as to what her options are. You may also be surprised as to what a jerk husband can do to those who interfere in his marriage. Is hubby consenting to driving instructions? Do you want to challenge him?

And, IIRC, weren’t domestic disputes the number one reason that cops were killed on the job, way back when?

You have had the experience of dealing with bad cases, but, I am afraid that you are trying to do it all over again, this time with a happy ending. Don’t see that.

Best wishes, but, it doesn’t look good.

9

And I second that this is not the OP’s problem. He can offer assistance if she asks, I guess.

10

Based on the information we have, yes, very.

11

This is a good start, and IMHO it’s where you should leave it, until Mary asks for help. Their friendship might be enough of an outlet for Mary, until she gets the resources to remove herself from the situation.

12

Sorry…a tradie is a self-employed tradesman…including but not exclusive to jobs like landscape gardening, carpentry, plastering, fencing etc etc.

I keep forgetting that Strine isn’t a universal form of English. :smiley:

13

My guess is tradesman. Carpenter, bricklayer, plumber or such.

I’d offer my support but not push it. Just be there when you can. You can’t help her till she’s ready for it.

14

I actually recommend not saying this - because if I was Mary, and had been confiding in my girlfriend about how horrible my husband was being, and then suddenly my girlfriend’s dad - who happens to be the best friend of my horrible husband’s dad - was making it clear that he knew about my problems, I would feel betrayed and would be terrified that everything I said would get back to the husband.

Driving lessons are a perfect thing to offer at this point - but anything else, I would just talk to your own daughter and let her know that you are more than willing to lend Mary a hand if it’s necessary.

15

JFTR, I’m a female.

And I know first hand how ‘abuse’ can come in all sorts of forms, and how difficult life can be when kids come along, and how women (especially) often think they are to blame when their partner goes troppo, or truly believe that they can ‘change’ them given enough time and love. I don’t know if that’s the case here, and as it turned out I didn’t find anything out today on our ‘outing’. T’was not the time nor the place to approach any sort of personal issue…will have to wait for another time, or not as the case may be.

Thanks for all the input though folks…much appreciated. :):slight_smile:

16

As you have mentioned it’s not unusual for people looking for attention or sympathy to wind things up, and as handsomeharry mentioned this is third hand info. It’s possible he is an abusive monster, it’s also possible she has personal or emotional issues that make it difficult for her to take any kind of control of her life. It strikes me that just on a practical basis it would be incredibly inconvenient to have a wife that did not know how to drive. Is he actually preventing her from driving, or is she just not taking the steps she needs to get a license? She sounds childlike, is this his oppression or a lifestyle choice she is making.

I have a 26 year old daughter who is quite intelligent but has almost zero initiative to get anything done despite being begged and pleaded with to get on with it. Even on the simplest tasks she will procrastinate and dither until it comes crashing down. She lives and acts like a 16 year old. She is very socially embarrassed by her lack of progress relative to her peers, and to her friends will blame her mother who gives her room and board, and then myself who pays many thousands per year in her lifestyle support in addition to her car repairs, medical dental, cell phone etc. before assuming any personal responsibility for her choices.

I could quite easily see her getting involved with a man who made all her decisions for her and winding up like your friend. Who would be the bad guy?

You need to stop dialing up abuse theories until you have a lot more concrete info about the total situation. Some people are very comfy in these weird controlling relationships that look bizarre to outsiders.

17

Ah! Apologies for assuming. My advice would still be the same though, I think - unless she was to bring something up.

18

And there’sa book for everything. I read this book on recommendation from a Doper (Blackberry, IIRC) and it is indeed very good. Maybe you could gift a copy to Mary’s friend and let her take it from there.