Fat is ugly? Well, yes.

The BBQ Pit
141

Time to open up a 6-pack of whup-ass on the room

MGibson is entitled to his opinion
If he finds fat people unattractive, that’s his prerogative. Last time I checked we’re no living in Airstrip One in Oceania, and there is no such thing as thoughtcrime.

Some opinions don’t need to be shared
Yes, it’s OK to not be attracted to, or even repelled by, fat people but airing your opinion in such an unkind way only causes hurt feelings. I work out and look pretty damn good, but I don’t go about taunting people, “Lalalala, I’m in shape and you’re not.”

"Ugly" is highly subjective
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own. We all have our own, individual ideas of what we find sexually desirable or aesthetically pleasing. To say that “fat=ugly” is to ignore the variety and beauty of different body types. I. for one, am attracted to all kinds of men, from younger, smooth-chested guys to older, hairy “bears.” I find that the personality is what makes someone’s body sexy, not the reverse.

Don’t blame being fat on your biochemistry.
While it is true that we are physically limited by our genetics, being obese is not usually beyond someone’s control. Some people, it is true, suffer from thyroid deficiencies or other imbalances that cause obesity, but most people can lose bodyfat through proper nutrition and exercise. For example, Billy Rubin says he nibbles on dry toast to lose weight. Starving yourself only makes the body hold on to body fat more tenaciously. If you really want to lose bodyfat, you have to follow thiese guidelines
[list]
[li]Eat several smallmeals during the day. You need to eat fewer calories, but you need to keepyour metabolism working so your body will burn fat. The answer is to browse through out the day, eating a small bowl of cereal,skim milk and 1/2 an apple, follow that with a can of tuna 2 hours later, have soup and salad for lunch, a piece of fruit in the afternoon, and then a chicken breast and greens for dinner.[/li][li]Exercise[/li]Start slowly. Maybe walk for 10 minutes once a day for a week, then increase by 5 minutes. After a month or so, add a light program of weight training. Join a gym and get help from a personal trainer.
[li]Believe in yourself[/li]Don’t compare your body to other people’s at the gym. They are on their journeys as you are on yours. The only person you need to compete with is yourself. Believe that you can do what you set out to do and that you work out for yourself, not to win other people’s esteem.

142

With the bald guy, maybe it is more cruel to rub it in. But also, remember that a change in diet and excerise habits will not grow this guy’s hair back.

And I’m not saying that I can’t understand why people get pissed, but I do think it’s rather silly. Barring some chemical imbalance, you are going to be as happy or as miserable as you set your mind to be. Would I rather lose my gut? Would I rather be in better shape? Sure I would. I mean, I would like to not get winded if I have to sprint around the bases in softball or climb several flights of stairs when the elevator is out. But I am also not going to sit here and boo-hoo myself because I have a big gut. Why get all worked up and bust someone’s balls because you are insecure about your body?

If the gf came up to me tomorrow and said “You’re a giant fatass and it is repulsive and I can’t be with you anymore” then, yes it would hurt and I would get upset. Someone who I don’t know and in all likelyhood will never meet says that fat = ugly?

I repeat, who cares?

143

Now just a damn minute, son…

…seeing films showcasing the point…

Yeah, I already hate “Shallow Hal”. Of course, I will never watch any film predicated on such a cruel premise.

I married a woman who is “overweight” (a term that could stand some clarity of definition, IMHO). She is also stunningly beautiful. But her weight is a sensitive issue she has to deal with daily (f’r instance, in the form of “innocent, off-hand” comments from both her mother and mine - “How soon do you think you’ll lose the weight from your pregnancy?”). And I can tell that the trailers for “Shallow Hal” pain her to some degree. Which, naturally angers me even more than such a obnoxious story would anyway.

But perhaps Mr. Gibson should see it. The movie MAY have a place in that it will instruct someone as shallow as the title character about how his attitudes are inherently cruel.

I just can’t get over it. The whole movie is so ironic. I mean, only someone from Hollywood would tell an overweight aspiring actress “Sorry. We don’t have any parts for you.” but put the rail-thin Gwyneth Paltrow in a specially made fat suit!!

I fully expect that the mere fact and manner in which the film was made will far outweigh any supposed “positive message” to be gained.

144

You can put a thin person in a fat suit. You can’t put a fat person in a thin suit. So if you’re going to have a film where people sometimes see a person as fat and other times as skinny it makes more sense to go with the thin person.

Did Eddie Murphy’s version of The Nutty Professor piss fat people off?

Marc

145

And mockery will not make fat people thin.

146

Mostly not. His crass family was annoying, it would have been nice if one or two of them could have been slim and still that crass.

“The Nutty Professor” seemed to have more sympathy and compassion for the plight of the fat, and the humor was not centered on being cruel to fat people. A little, but not to the degree that Shallow Hal * appears * to be. (I haven’t seen it, so I don’t know yet for sure.)

stoid

147

Well, I guess I’ll just continue to delude myself and be completely and totally confident in my body. I’ve got no complaints, and neither do the men I date.

You know what I thought of immediately when I saw the Shallow Hal preview? My friend at work, Josh, who is absolutely beautiful. Every time I see him smile I swoon a little. He’s got the cutest dimples, beautiful blue eyes, and lovely curly hair. I love talking to him, hanging out with him any chance I get. If he weren’t engaged, I’d be on him in a red hot minute.

He’s also about 6’2 and maybe 200 pounds. He has a belly that sticks out. He’s got love handles. He’s definitely overweight. Yet I find him absolutely, 100% sexy and I am very attracted to him. Does it matter if it’s his personality or his body? He’s a package deal, like all of us. You get both with the bargain. Now if he were as fat at Gwyneth Paltrow in this movie, which I thought of when I saw the trailer, I know I would still be attracted to him. Because ultimately, he’s much more than just a body.

I kind of feel sorry for the people who only see others as bodies. There’s a lot more out there to enjoy.

148

I said it would, where, exactly?

149

Well, that was a few minutes I’ll never get back.
Since I read through it, I wanted to add, Nice half-assed apology, Marc.

Let’s see, halfway down page 2 you say, “ugly really wasn’t the right word to use.” Don’t leave us hangin, bro - what WAS the right word?

Coupla posts later we hear, “I don’t post messages and gleefully wait for the angry responses to pile up.” Please let us know what non-nasty incentive a sentient being would have for posting your OP. Or are we going to be treated with an endless string of Pit threads illuminating us as to every conceivable thing you consider ugly (or that OTHER word that escapes me), beautiful, tasty, painful, etc.

I don’t know that what all else your OP and follow-ups suggests to ME about you, but your actions certainly seem unnecessarily insensitive, inflammatory, and not too well thought out. (Which I consider ugly! ;))

BTW, I’m sure it’s been done before, but for reference I believe obesity previously was defined as 30% or more above ideal weight on standardized height-weight tables. Now the calculation is the somewhat more complex body mass index (BMI). I am less certain about this, but I believe morbid obesity is generally defined as twice the ideal/standard weigh for a person’s height/gender.

Carry on.

150

Sara, you are as cute as a box of puppies. I feel sorry for people who fixate solely on looks because that shows how shallow and empty they are. I work out and I look good in a tight t-shirt, but if a guy wanted to get with me just because of that and made no attempt to get to know me as a person, he would not get very far. (Mind you, no guy will get very far with me because I have an adorable boyfriend, who is both chunky and sexy.)

151

Sara, you are not only as cute as a box of puppies, but you are sweet, intelligent, and kind. Any guy who gets you gets a jewel. I feel sorry for people who fixate solely on looks because that shows how shallow and empty they are. I work out and I look good in a tight t-shirt, but if a guy wanted to get with me just because of that and made no attempt to know me as a person, he would not get very far. (Mind you, no guy will get very far with me because I have an adorable boyfriend, who is both chunky and sexy.)

152

Yikes, sorry about the double post.

153

**

Less attractive might have been a better way to put it. But since I’ve already pissed some people off I’d have to say that weight could be a major factor in determining beauty and ugliness. I’ve yet to see a 5 ft. 6. inch 300 pound woman I thought attractive.

**

I’ve been posting here for a while so I think my history speaks for itself. I’m not in the habit of posting messages and gleefully waiting for angry responses. If you can show me a pattern of doing such things then please do so. And if all I wanted to do was piss people off you think I would have posted any apology at all?

Marc

154

J248974, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on several other issues. Say, for instance, Oh, I don’t know…let’s see…

smoking in public and race relations seem to be the first two that come to mind.
(apologies, as this is a near bite of someone else’s post from a month or two ago.)

155

But come on! There are a lot of drugs on the market that (may) cure baldness! (Actually, one of my friends is on a drug, and yeah, he has grown a lot of his hair back.) And there is surgery! I mean, if the guy didn’t want to have cruel people “rub it in”, he’d put a little effort into changing himself! Ever think of trying toupees, at the very least?! I mean, if he won’t change himself, he has no one else to blame but himself if people are cruel to him! :rolleyes:

Yeah, I know all of the above is a bunch of bullshit. And I know that baldness isn’t at all “controllable”, where weight often is. I don’t think baldness is “ugly” anyway. (Mitch Pileggi sure ain’t ugly! :slight_smile: ) And I know that being overweight is also a health issue, not just an aesthetic issue. But losing weight, for many of us, is a major undertaking, requiring a great deal of effort. And some people do resort to surgery.

I am so sick of people laying a lot of the “blame” for the misery society doles out on fat people (or “weird” people, nerds, what have you) on the victimes of the misery themselves. Why the HELL should a fat person be made to feel “responsible” (even a little bit) for being treated like shit? Why should anyone tell them (as some people have told many of us here) “Well, if you hate being treated like that, maybe you’d better think about losing weight. Maybe you’d better do something about it.”

Excuse me, but since when is merely existing and breathing oxygen (while fat) such a terrible crime that you deserve to be harrassed and insulted by everyone because of it? Don’t you think that perhaps that the people who should “do something about it” should be the assholes who are harrassing fat people (who are minding their own business), and that such assholes should stop harrassing people?!?! You think maybe that’s the way it should be? You think?!?

156

They should not. But they also shouldn’t think of themselves as victims if a large segment of the population does not find them attractive, Especially since (in most cases) they have the power to do something about it.

I do not condone harassing anyone for being fat. I agree that people should not be harassed. But, someone posting on a MB that they think fat is ugly (while not directing it specifically towards anyone) does not come close to my definition of harassment. Does it yours?

157

This is about as far as I’ll take it. If I’m sitting on a plane or bus with an empty seat next to me, and a very large person gets on, I hope they aren’t going to sit next to me. Other than that, on the street, in my office, in social situations, etc., weight (and other physical attributes) aren’t all that important.

While “window shopping”, I probably focus my gaze (and lustful thoughts) on a rather small portion of the population. The rest are just people.

Independent of body habitus, I consider the more important distinction to be between assholes and not assholes. And I certainly can’t make that assessment by prejudging a person based on their looks.

158

Yup. That’s the crux for me, definitely. I freely admit to being biased against obese people. I’m not proud of it, and I’m working to changes all of my biases, but I suspect I will never find a truly fat man or woman to be physically attractive.

I really dislike the idea of someone telling me I’m an evil harassing oppressor with a small mind and a smaller penis for finding excessive fat to be ugly. ('Course, the keyword for me is “excessive.” Camryn Mannheim? Mrowr.)

159

You can’t compare overweight men with overweight women; two different things. And you can’t compare one overweight woman with another; again, two different things. Where you carry the weight and how you carry it changes from person-to-person. I have a friend who tends to put on weight but she carries it in all the right spots. She looks great with extra weight on her. Then I know women who tend to get lumpy looking and pear-shaped if they put on too much weight. I tend to find those women unattractive. I can still like them for their personality, but they’re not someone I would date. Nacho, just as you may love love handles on a guy, some men don’t love love handles on a woman. To each his, or her, own.

160

that a hoard of netizens addicted and devoted to any message board (woo-hoo; what calorie buring excitement) with the keen ability to post 8.74965 posts per day on average for the last two and a half years, that some of them might be a overweight.

Step away from the computer, turn off your collectors edition DVD of The Holy Grail, and go outside and, perhaps, some fresh air and exersise. Some of you post way to often, I think a break will do some good.
::runs, far far away, with Twinkies in hand::