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[li]sorry about the bolding[/li][li]calorie burning[/li][li]hi opal![/li][/list=a]
Yes - one has a penis, and one has a vagina - but I assume that’s what you meant, because to imply anything else would be incredibly ignorant and sexist.
Al.
[sub]WHY am I still reading this ridiculous thread?!?!?!?[/sub]
Oh, please. Sexist? Alice, after over 600 posts you should have learned not to quote out of context. If you read the rest of my post you would read, “Where you carry the weight and how you carry it changes from person-to-person.” Men tend to carry the weight in their mid-section, women tend to carry it in their hips and legs. That’s pretty much common knowledge. I don’t see where you’re getting “sexist” from, unless you just like to throw that word around to make yourself sound PC.
Of course (as I have repeated multiple times) there’s NOTHING WRONG in not finding every body type attractive. I am not attracted to every body type - why should anyone else be different? The big problem starts in how you act out your “lack of attraction”. Do you just not ask out people you don’t find attractive? Or do you publish your feelings on a message board?!? Like, why the need to share the fact that you don’t find such-and-such a body type attractive? I keep on asking - what’s the point here? What is the purpose of sharing such information? Exactly what benefit is it to the Internet community?
For most of us who have battled with weight, it’s not only about having to encounter the occasional person who posts a message on a message board, expressing their negative feelings about fat. If that’s the only negative feedback we’d ever get, I doubt this thread would have caused such a fervor. But it’s not like that for us. We get hounded and bombarded every day. Friends, relatives, loved ones, strangers, store clerks, television ads, all tell us (in “kind” or not-so-kind words) that WE must change, if we want to avoid the pain that society inflicts. And I just don’t find that acceptable. Why must WE change, because other people are too boorish to keep their negative feelings to themselves?
On this very board, there is another thread about Rogaine, where the OP rants about Rogaine “preying on men’s insecurities”. And the OP is right-on. It’s shitty that men are being targeted like that. But I suspect that most of you won’t tell the people who are offended by the ad to just “get over it”. Or will you?
We all have feelings, after all. Most of us can take the “average” amount of “negative opinions” about what we are, how we look, but there’s a point where it becomes overkill. Which is why the Rogaine ad is offensive, and why such threads as this are offensive. It’s kinda like the straw that breaks the camel’s back. ENOUGH ALREADY!
Sorry, but I agree. Obesity to the point of being unhealthy is ugly. A few extra pounds, I could care less, i’m not exactly on the light side. But I’m still healthy, I can run my mile. Not exactly the fastest in the state, but I finish it before last place. However, panting when you go up a flight of stairs, or walk to class, is gross. It’s supposed to be gross. The same way that people find healthier, more muscular men more attractive, and women with longer, healthier looking hair. That’s just how God made us, alright?
Flame away.
But I like my guys (and girls, for that matter) healthy, thanks.
~C~
I don’t think you’re getting the point many of us are making here.
Feel the way you feel. Prefer what you prefer. Date whomever you want to date. Don’t date people you don’t find attractive. NO PROBLEM.
But do you think the rest of us need to hear all about it? All the frickin’ time? You think it’s news to us? About how you (any of you) find certain qualities “disgusting”, especially when people with said qualities (in this case, fat) are constantly being told they are “disgusting”?
So, gee, you just had to share too? Like you think no one else has ever shared this? Like you think we just didn’t understand the concept the 1,403,235th time we were told, so you think you need to tell us for the 1,403,236th time, and that’ll do the trick? What? What exactly is your point here?
To put it another way, let’s say you like rock music. And let’s say (hypothetically) that a lot of people around you like jazz. So, would you really not mind it if every day, everyone told you how they hated your rock music, how they wished you’d stop listening to it, how “stupid” it is, how “inferior” it is? Wouldn’t you just want people to SHUT UP about it? Wouldn’t you want to tell them, “Yep, I got the message, gotcha, now SHUT UP PLEASE?!?” Well, that’s how it is for most fat people. We have recieved the message, no need to keep repeating it. Date who you want, and leave us in peace, to date the people who don’t think we are “disgusting”.
If for some incomprehensible reason, you still feel the burning need to share your feelings about fat, expect our ire. We’ve had enough of the constant reminders.
Several thoughts:
(a) Many people have said something to the effect of “I don’t understand why this topic was ever started. It’s all been said before. It was just mean/trollish”. I was not the original poster, and I can’t speak for him, but looking way back to the original post, he was talking about this comment from Capacitor:
It’s obviously impossible to know what tone Capacitor intended, but I find it a bit of a ridiculous comment. The two questions marks, the “oh please!!!” Capacitor seems to be genuinely shocked that anyone would equate fatness with ugliness. I found the tone, at least in part, somewhere between condescending and pollyannaish… ie “well, all us dopers, being the sensitive and superior types that we are, know that fat people are just as beautiful as everyone else, because true beauty is on the inside, and I can’t believe that anyone would even dare imply otherwise”.
Which is not to say that I don’t think Shallow Hal looks unbelievably offensive and shallow, because I do. But I think it was the unbelieving tone of Capacitor’s post that caused MGibson to post in the first place.
(2) To say something that might make me a tad unpopular, I also have a minor pet peeve that is triggered by posts such as this one from Little Mermaid:
I agree absolutely that physical appearance is vastly less important than what’s on the inside. But the word “beautiful”, in general, refers to physical appearance. If there’s someone who you want to praise due to their intelligence, wit, caring nature, sense of humor, fine taste in cigars, etc., why not praise them for those reasons? Or say something obviously metaphorical like “xxx has a beautiful spirit”. Or even state “I would pork xxx in a Russian minute if I had him/her alone” if that’s true.
But using the word “beautiful” to refer specifically to interior traits seems imprecise, insulting, and condescending. If know that I’m a good person inside. If someone ever tells me how handsome I am (which I kinda doubt they would, since I’m pretty insecure about my appearance), I want to believe that they mean it, not that they mean that I am “handsome in their eyes” or something of that sort. (Which is not to say that one’s level of perceived physical attractiveness is not influenced by one’s personality… but there’s a difference between being incredibly attracted to someone who’s average looking but great in every other way and telling them that they’re hotter than liquid fuck, and telling someone on a message board that they’re “beautiful” just because they are eloquent and intelligent.)
(3) To directly address the question of “fat=ugly” (in a purely semantic fashion), I would interpret that statement not to mean “all fat people are ugly” (which is definitely not true), but as “fatness is, in general, an ugly trait”. And I think that that’s basically a true statement, to the extent that any statement about subjectiveness can be true. If you take a random person, see how they would look if they had the ideal-for-health body weight, how they would look 20 pounds heavier, 40 pounds heavier, 60 pounds heavier, etc., and then put all of those pictures up on hotornot.com, I pretty much guarantee that they’d get less hot as they got larger. Which is NOT to say that:
-there are no attractive overweight people
-being a few pounds overweight is hideously horrible
-being super-skinny is attractive
-there are no people who find overweight people more attractive than non-overweight people
(Of course, that’s one of many possibly parsings of “fat=ugly”, and it doesn’t address the fact that “ugly” is a word with stronger negative connotations than just “physically unattractive”.)
(4)Just for the record, in case anyone is curious about my personal tastes, I find women who either extremely skinny or extremely fat to be physically unattractive. My ideal of feminine beauty is close to Kate Winslet in Titanic, who was generally mocked as being somewhat overweight. 20 or 30 points in either direction is no big deal. But much much more important than that is who the person is on the inside. If I met a woman who was in ever way precisely Ms. Right for me but who weight 300 pounds, would I fall in love with her? You know, I honestly don’t know. But I hope so. And if I met the woman who was in every way precisely Ms. Right but looked like (say) Nacho4Sara, who has for some crazy reason expressed the opinion that she’s overweight, well, then I’d be lucky as hell.
(5) However, I bet no one will respond to this post. Because no one ever responds to my posts when I try to be meaningful but perhaps slightly controversial. Ah well 
Someone had to get the brunt of it
What the fuck part of this don’t you get? IT IS UNHEALTHY. unhealthy things are HARD WIRED into our DNA to be undesirable! I don’t care if you don’t want to hear about it, It’s unhealthy! It causes heart disease and loads of other things. I know, yeah, it’s work to stay in shape, God fucking forbid you do work to keep healthy, but ya know what, you’re not the only one. God the only reason I hate it is 'cus I used to be disgusting myself, but I got myself in shape 'cus my doctor told me how out of shape I was. I lift weights, I do aerobics, I march in band (funny how in shape you get with that)… I work out! note the important word, work. I’m sorry I have to break it to you, but it isn’t as difficult as it seems. eat healthy, work out, and see what happens. if that doesn’t work, I’m sorry for ranting at you, but I hate people who are too damn lazy to get off their asses and get in shape. I did it for myself, not anyone else, so just remember that- it’s for your future.
~C~
And you think that we’ve never heard this before?
Where did I ever disagree with this, or begrudge anyone their personal likes and dislikes?
There are health risks to smoking, drug use, and driving above the speed limit. If someone KNOWS, they KNOW. Do you really think that by repeating it, over and over again, you are doing anything other than being an irritant? Do you really think there is any use in being a complete, total nag and pain in the ass? Because when you say things like “I don’t care if you don’t want to hear about it” (after I have been repeating how we have been told - my gosh, HOW WE HAVE BEEN TOLD) - then what you are saying in essence is “I know you know, but I insist on being a pain in the ass nag anyway, and repeating it to you yet again.”
Why the need to keep repeat something we all know? What? You afraid the fat will rub off on you? It’s not contagious, you know. 
Who the hell asked your for your health advice? That’s not what this is about. This is about people being allowed to not be constantly reminded about how “disgusting” they are.
Hey - I know all about writing in calligraphy. I have very nice handwriting, because I work at it. Want me to nag the rest of you, who have “digusting” handwriting, day in and day out, about how you can have great handwriting like me, if you just WORK at it? Me rambling on (in a sanctimonious way) about my great handwriting has about as much bearing on the main gripes being expressed on this thread as you telling us to “work out, and see what happens”.
Give me a break. Do you really think any of the information you have imparted is NEW to us?
So are you saying that we should never discuss this issue cause you’ve heard it all before? Perhaps if it is never discussed people can put their fat heads in the sand and pretend it doesn’t exist. Oh, I know, you already get enough of it from other people. They should shut up, too. Everybody should shut up about it and then we fat people could just get on being fat and nobody would bother us.
You are free to discuss whatever you wish, but there is a point where you are going to be percieved as a pain-in-the-ass nag, and treated as such.
I guarantee you, that each of us has a habit or trait that could be improved, or worked upon. Do you really think that it would be helpful to you to have a whole lot of people constantly dogging you, bugging you, never letting you have a moment’s peace about it? Do you think that is productive? Do you think it is warming to our hearts to be told how disgusting we are? What exactly is the point, other than to be hurtful? Do you really think that when a fatty is told (for the millionth time) that you find them “disgusting”, that they are going to say, “Oh yeah, all the issues that I have, that have put me in this state have all disolved away. Thanks to your insightful remark, I will now wave my magic wand, and be thin again.” Yeah - obnoxious and unsolicited nagging always has that kind of power.
I can think of a whole list of things I personally find repellant, or disgusting. But I sure as hell don’t go around broadcasting my feelings to everyone who possesses particular traits I dislike. For one thing, they didn’t ask for my opinion, for another thing, if it’s something I suspect that they most likely have been nagged to death about before, why do I need to add my voice? Just to torment them? Why?
For instance, at work, I met a new coworker. Her teeth are rotting out of her head. Literally rotting. Do you think I should have told her how “disgusting” I found that? Do you think I should have told her about how she should brush her teeth more? Or do you think that perhaps - just perhaps - she actually has a mirror, knows what her teeth look like, knows that there are dentists out there, and perhaps I can just leave her alone about it? Or do you think that I can “save” her from her rotting teeth, by nagging her, and telling her how “disgusting” she is? Do you think this would help her?
And - since when is someone else’s problem your business? Are you trying to “save” the rest of us? Are you sure you are finished working on improving yourself?
TeeHee - I’m terribly PC - just check out my Nudity/Massage threads, and all my cheerleader comments…
Look guy - you implied that it’s somehow ok for men to carry extra weight because they carry it in their midsection, but if women do (because they carry it in their hips and thighs?) it’s ugly. That’s the most sexist thing I’ve ever heard. It’s also the most whacked out piece of logic I’ve ever heard: “Fat is ugly - but only certain fat -and only on women - and only if it’s on their ass…”
Yep, that’s a clearly made arguement.
IMO you are blurring two different things here. For you to harp on Sally McRottenteef would be rude. But what if you (generally, not towards your co-worker) ranted about how gross bad teeth are in the pit? Not rude.
I’m not sure that anyone here is advocating a millitant “Lose the weight, Chunk-ass!” plan of action towards all the chubs, Someone just shared an opinion. If MGibson had gotten up into your face and told you you were a disgusting fat slob, I think you’d have more people agreeing that he was being a rude SOB. But you are making this more personal than I think you need to (yes, JMO.)
Who here is in your face constantly harping on you?
Great! I have short hair too! Count that as another point for being freakishly unattractive.
I cannot possibly express everything that is wrong with your posts. YOUR OPINION OF PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS does not constitute God’s plan, nor does it constitute all of society’s viewpoint. YOUR OPINION IS YOUR OPINION. If you think fat is ugly, just say it, for the love of Pete. Don’t try to say you care about some unknown fat person’s health, because I don’t think you do. Don’t try to say that it’s your DNA, because that doesn’t explain why overweight women were considered beautiful two hundred years ago. Don’t blame it on society, because you are not a stupid sheep (well, I’ll think about this one in your case) who is incapable of deciding something in opposition of a fashion magazine and a movie.
I don’t care if you think fat is ugly. It’s your opinion. I just get angry as hell when you attempt to make your personal opinion representative of 6 BILLION PEOPLE, because it’s NOT. How is this impossible to understand?
Tricia, if you think the repsonse you are recieving is anywhere close to “the brunt” of it, I invite you to post for a few more months. There is no doubt in my mind that your stupidity will flourish, and you will say something even stupider, even more offensive and ridiculous, and then you will most certainly get “the brunt” of it. While I would love to be a part of that extravaganza, it will be my pleasure to simply watch, read, and giggle. On that blessed day, the sun will shine more brightly, birds will be singing, and the tremendous force of my “I TOLD YOU SO!” will echo through the streets, resonate in the hearts of Dopers around the world, and cause small children to look up at the sky in wonder.
Why is this a bad thing?? Why do you get to proclaim from the mountaintops that all fat people should lose weight? Why is a fat person’s fattiness ANY of your business? If my doctor told me I needed to lose wieght (which won’t happen, because I’m in great shape and have very low cholesterol), I might consider doing it. But you are not a doctor. You have no right to tell anybody how they should or should not be. You can think fat people are ugly as hell, but when you walk up to one and tell them to lose some weight, you are being rude, insensitive, and cruel. Why do you even care? It’s not your goddamned life, and it’s not your business. If I want to stick my fat, grotesque head up my hideously obese, dimpled buttocks I WILL because it’s MY life, MY FAT, my ass, and my goddamned fucking choice.
Well…yes and no. If rotten teeth were a common complaint amongst people, and if there was a distinct division in society, the “good teeth” and the “rotten teeth” people, and the rotten teeth people were the constant brunt of cruelty and jokes, and they pleaded with you, “Please, enough already. Leave it be.” And if there were already umpteen “anti-rotten-teeth threads” hashed out, to no good end other than a lot of hurt feelings and anger… And then some genius STILL felt the compelling desire to start yet ANOTHER thread, covering the same topic… Then yeah, it takes on an entirely different dimension.
You see where I’m going here?
Not one-on-one, not here. But I’ve told you, I’ve had my fill of it. In real life, for a long time. And I’ve expressed that here, and I’m not the only one who has testified that I’ve been nagged quite enough, thanks very much.
But some of you still insist on repeating it yet again. “I don’t care if you don’t want to hear, I don’t care if you say you already know, I’m going to tell you again anyway”. That’s obnoxious.
Damn…Im fat. :eek:
I would say that Capacitor thought that that was a pretty stupid concept for a movie myself. Everyone knows that societies prevaling standards is towards thin people. To get all that from the sentence would probably tell more about your opinion of dopers than anything else.
The only people who are allowed to give unasked-for advice are spouses and parents. Why can’t all the stupid anti-fat people get this simple rule of etiquette through their thick (but apparently not fat?) heads?
If someone wants to know if you think they need to lose weight, they’ll ask you. Until they do, keep your fucking yap shut. This includes opinions as to whether someone else’s life choices are healthy; that’s a matter between them and their physicians. Just because you think that being fat is unhealthy doesn’t make you right. And even if you are right, it’s not your place to give that advice.
What ever happened to common manners?
**
I’m sorry yosemitebabe. I forgot that the Pit was a place for important things. Like bitching about other people who bitch about your state. I’ll keep that in mind in the future.
**
Well you shouldn’t change because of negative feelings. You should change for your own health.
**
I would. I don’t piss and moan every time I see a commercial about fixing gray hair.
Marc
I agree, assuming that it is one person who is continually bringing up the same thing. For instance, if after this thread does, and 6 weeks later MGibson posts a new thread in the pit “You know, I don’t know if you guys remember or not, but I think really fat people are ugly”, then that would be obnoxious. But, it’s as if you’re trying to claim “I know I am fat, I don’t ever want to hear another negative word about overweight people for the rest of my life from anyone else – I’ve heard enough already”. Hate to tell you, but I’ll bet my next paycheck that you’ll hear it again before your life is over.
I just searched for “fat” in the subject of pit threads, and found less than 10 that could be construed as fat bashing, or people upset from being fatbashed (that’s a good band name, BTW). And at least three of those were either John the Cyberian or Mark Serlin socks, or pertaining to Hilary Clinton’s ass, or a remark made from family members. I found all of 2 threads that served no other purpose than to flat-out insult fat people. I wouldn’t say that’s a lot, considering all the stuff that has come through the pit in last 24 months.
I guess it kind of bothers me that people let this sort of thing get them down. Yes, this is oversimplified, but here it comes anyway: my point is that if you are really hurt by these “fat = ugly” comments, you can become immune to them one of two ways. Either be happy with your body, or lose weight. Don’t let someone else get you down for something that IMO is not worth it.