Only relevant because it highlights a culturally different view of marriage and gender roles. And consequences of being noncomplaint. Which, for the record, I heartily endorse. Want to keep your women as second-class citizens? Stay in Afghanistan and feel free to be a neanderthal. Want to move to a more-evolved country? Better stay with the local program or die motherfucker.
I don’t know where you are posting from (and it might be relevant) but if you are in the U.S. the law will be on your side.
The unpleasant reality is that his sister and mother-in-law are not forces of nature that he is physically incapable of resisting. When he opens his mouth to talk to them, it’s not physically harder for him to say “I’m sorry, but we are not going to do that.” I understand why you are defending him, but I think it’s important to acknowledge to yourself that your husband is an equal party in this situation, not an innocent bystander. For whatever reason, he is choosing to keep things the way that they are.
And as mentioned earlier, why should he change? His mother is happy. His sister is happy. He is happy. You are not happy, but this doesn’t seem to bother him enough to change.
Unfortunately, the tools that women are taught to bring in to negotiations are exactly the least effective ones. We tend to nag, to accuse, the cry, etc. These just push men further away from us, and make them feel justified in neglecting us. And it makes sense- who wants to spend time on someone who is angry at you.
Unfortunately, you are probably pretty stuck. With a US woman, I’d recommend that she avoids nagging and instead focuses on independence, doing the thing you love and presumably reminding him of the fascinating person that you are and rekindling his desire to win you over. But that may not translate as well. So I guess I don’t know what to say except we are always here to listen to you, and good luck!
He can’t just move out from his mother’s house. Not easily, anyway, not if she doesn’t want him to. That is one of the worst things you can do; disrespect your mother. The mother is the highest role a woman can ever achieve in Hinduism and the mother is like a goddess. if he has internalized all this he isn’t just going to toss it all out in a day.
Anamika: I am starting on the path of being more and more of me. Being independant and finding my happiness. Divorce is not something I am looking at as an option today. And yes my MIL will try to trouble me in all that as much as possible but am planning to reclaim as much of my space as possible.
You are right, he tossed away my years of hardwork in a jiffy just beacuse she said something!
Chiroptera: Yes it is yikes, but understand that this is not set in stone…my MIL is actually a post graduate who retired as a teacher! My SIL are both professionals as well.
My MIL was born in a village and married in a village but lived her life in the city. She never stayed with her in laws.
None of the SIL stay with in laws. Then why am I expected to be subservient? Why double standards? Just because my hubby is a pushover?
Believe me when it comes to them there is nary traditionalism when it applies to them, it is all reserved for me!
Dont worry Chiro I wont be killed and bundled off by my MIL and SILs, however much I might be tarnishing their ‘honour’.
But if wishful thinking were to come real, I’d be dead many times over
Even Sven: Yes the more I think of it, more you seem correct.
His view is if this girl is able to take it, why rock the boat? But does he understand that in the bargain he is losing his chance for real happiness? I dont know. :mad:
Independance is the route I am planning on, creating personal space and sticking to it.
Mothers ruling their sons is not just limited to Indians. However, what are the rules for daughter-in-law mother-in-law relationships? Is it possible for wildspirit to out-bitch the mother and get a dominant or at least equal role in her own household?
You don’t need our advice…you gave it to yourself. Now, either follow your advice or give a deadline that you will leave this stiffleling relationship. It’s up to him to be a husband first, a son second.
After reading Anaamika’s post…hoping for the best of luck to you…long shot and time consuming indeed!
Also adding: I realized that I had a similar situation in my marriage, but not as severe. I had to hear it from a third party that I wasn’t being a good husband. Let me convey that very fact to your husband…he is plowing a gorge where my ditch was.
Are we to understand that none of this, was apparent to you, before you married him?
Because it sounds like a pretty overt dynamic, hard to miss.
My advice is that your husband is now, exactly what he was when you married him, cowed by his mother. And he’s not going to suddenly stop being that way, either.
If it was me, I’d pack a bag, and find a safe place, and then up and leave without a word to anyone, the next time he pulls this crap. Just up and gone. Let him figure it out, and let him come to you, asking for your return. Now you have a position to negotiate from, and stand a chance.
But seriously, it sounds like he’s been dominated by his mother his whole life. So you have to decide to either accept this as their dynamic and it isn’t going to change, or you have to become the woman who dominates him. I’m sure he’ll respond very well to it, he’s had a lifetime of practice actually.
(Has it crossed your mind that she’s tired of the spineless boy and his angry wife, and is just looking to drive him, to grow a back bone and get the hell out of her house? Yeah, not something even an educated Hindu mother is likely to own, in regards to her son. But still a possibility, in my mind!)
My own mom lives on the Rez and she is welcome to move in with us, and mine good wife has invited her repeatedly, but there’s a point where you write it off.
I think that you are on the right track, sort of…
I have found that, to some extent, people can learn to *ignore *the pains in the butt that we often are forced to live with. Now, my situation was in the workplace. One person, in our department, but in a different section, was a constant pain in the butt to me, not working on project that I needed, yet diverting work funds to his experimental pet work projects. Telling the boss false tales of my work performance. I wanted the boss to make this person responsive to my work needs, so I could do my job. Our mutual supervisor just wanted to keep the peace. I finally realized that the supervisor wasn’t going to do jack about it. I just started doing what I could, laid out my case, as I was obliged to do in my capacity, and ignored the jerk. Totally. Whenever he came into the room, I concentrated on things that I needed to do at home, and if he directed conversation to me that wasn’t work related, I just looked at him. Didn’t even bother speaking to him. Why? It wouldn’t have done any good, as I knew he would never change. When anybody mentioned it, I could say that the guy wasn’t on the same page with me, I was doing my job, and was that a problem? Fortunately, I never got fired!
Point being: You can ***ignore ***the old wretch. Various ramblings on the subject: Don’t be mean, don’t try to convince your husband she’s evil, don’t try to change her.
Just remember, that you don’t even have to stay in the same room with her if you don’t want to. If husband asks why you left, or tries to lecture you that it is rude, just say, ‘oh.’
If he asks you to start liking your MIL, just say, “OK!” But, you don’t have to do anything about it. It’s not even a matter of like/dislike, but of behavior.
Treat her as politely as you would somebody that you don’t know, but are sure that you would find disagreeable! Don’t expect the politeness to be rewarded, but, again, remember that you don’t care what she thinks. (And, I believe that your husband will appreciate your politeness to Mom).
Train yourself when you look at her to think that whatever she does doesn’t matter. She is one big fat cipher. A zero. If her retard daughters hate your guts, so what? Just love your husband, and convince yourself that their relationship hasn’t anything to do with that of you and your husband.
Next time a family get together comes up, remind yourself that you are no part of it, and don’t try to help in any of the matter. Find something better to do.
The advice may not be perfect, but, it may help you maintain a bit of composure.
That’s about all I got.
Well, if you don’t want to leave, and getting him to grow a spine isn’t likely to happen, I’m not sure what you expect us to offer as suggestions. The way I see it there are 4 options:
You tell your husband you’re done with this bullshit and leave.
Your husband grows a damn spine.
You accept that neither of them will ever change and suck it up for the next 40 years till the old bat dies.
You kill your mil or yourself because death is the only way you’ll ever be free of the old harpy and you can’t make it through 40 more years of this shit.
Seriously, those are the only options I see. You don’t like 1, you think 2 likely won’t work, and 4 is illegal. That only leaves you with option 3, which I will never recommend to anyone. So I just don’t know what to tell you.
Firstly, thank you all for your suggestions, time and energy.
Voyager: Yes it is possible for some DIL to dominate their MIL , quite a few learn detente and then you get a one in a million like me . I know I am finding humor in all this but at least thats one of the ways to retain sanity. I am not the types to look or seek dominance, could have easily done on hubby but I strongly believe in equality
Yeticus Rex: Yes assertiveness training is an option and am doing it to myself right now, hoping some of it rubs into hubby as well and then helping him through the journey. But at any rate this is damn tiring not something I want to spend lifetime on…
Elbows: Now thats all interetsing suggestion, unfortunately I am not at a place where I want to scoot, be by myself and let him come for negotiations.
BTW he stood upto his mom to marry me. Yeah happened she must have been hopping mad but gave in, probably to enjoy a lifetime of torturing me!
HandsomeHarry: Thanks, will definitely take this advice, sounds good, doable and one step at a time
CrazyCatLady: Though I love some off your options and loathe to take them :))
VOW: Interesting question, initially MIL controlled the household finances with hubby dearest giving her almost all money before marriage. Now we do, we have to spend on everything but are happy in our freedom
In general you need to work on your relationship with your husband. Are you planning on having kids? If you have kids and he still sides with MIL over you, how would that affect them? If he wants kids you may have a different angle to take. I’m sure neither of you want them raised in a household where you’re a secondary authority figure, it’ll be difficult for you to parent effectively. This may be a line of argumentation that wakes him up to the imbalance. I’m not saying MIL/Grandma can’t be an authority figure, but that she doesn’t get to override parental/spousal decisions.
My in-laws have a very co-dependent family history and my wife has struggled with how to resolve conflicts between our nuclear family’s interests and her parents/grandparents/aunts/cousins interests. One of the times we talked about it my wife said she felt she could choose them over me because I loved her and would forgive her, whereas they would stop loving her if she didn’t do what they wanted. After she said it she realized how messed up it was, and she has been standing up more for our rights as a couple since. Still there are times when I’ll ask her to do something that is clearly in the best interests of our household and her mother will ask for something also and she’ll jump to fulfill her mother’s request and leave mine. It’s a journey.
Ultimately you have one sure-fire recourse. Independence. This is how women in every society throughout history and the world over have gained equal status in the household. If you don’t have a job, or prospects of a job, then you have fewer choices and his decisions, or his deferring to his mother, will hold sway in your life. If you don’t want that, then instead of relying on his good nature and dedication to your best interests, you need to own them yourself and be able to stand on your own two feet if necessary.
I suggest that BOTH of you seek couples counseling so it would speed up the process. Your typical marriage therapist is going to help you identify and explain how much of a strain is put on your marriage by your husband’s unassertiveness towards his mom. Do not assume that your assertiveness training is going to “rub off” on him (and yes, that would take a lifetime!)…he is either oblivious or taking you for granted by constantly placing his mom’s needs over your needs. Set a goal for one year that the two of you are placing each others needs first above anyone else…that goes for parents, siblings, friends, etc. If after a year, it doesn’t meet either expectation/satisfaction, then you gave it an honest try and you can separate from your husband with a clearer conscience. But do it under the management of a counselor so the goals are clear, understandable and obtainable with supervision of a neutral party.
Been some time since I vented here and well there are updates. MIL has been away for most part of the year leaving us happy, not blissfully due to professional reasons. She tried bullying in the mid but we were able to resist.
I agree with Yeticus that I need to treat myself better than to wait for hubby to give me importance. I need to be and am assertive, I am learning to speak and sound my opinion whatever two nickels it might be.
In concrete terms the situation has changed a bit due to inertia as in the physical distance between us and MIL. Hubby tried to be his own person and this message even if subtle has gone to MIL and SILs as well. One of the SIL is behaving civilly with hubby now. MIL is still trying to dominate but running into diversions or roadblaocks.
I know these are stop gap arrangements and not real solutions. But I want to live my life and have my kids and move on. Yes the old bat will nose and mess I have to learn to not bother.
From the little bit I know of the Indian family structure, the dynamics change after the children are born. This is especially true in arranged marriages, and surprisingly, many “Westernized” women will still permit their families to find them spouses!
Once you become a mother, your husband will begin to see you in a different way. You will gradually become a mother figure, and evolve into the power position of the family. Your MIL will (of course!) offer her advice and expect her word to still have control, but ultimately YOU have the final say in the raising of your children.
This is a LONG process though. And you’ll have to suck up a LOT of sewage before you become the ruler of your own house. It won’t be so much as a deferment by your MIL, but an attitude evolution by your husband.
You have to make the decision. Are you strong enough to survive through years of emotional and mental abuse from this woman?
Me, personally, I wouldn’t be able to hack it. I think that you’d have to be raised in that culture from the cradle to truly be able to understand and manipulate the family politics.
He’s not going to change. Your MIL won’t change. Your only recourse is for YOU to change. If you can’t or won’t, this isn’t a sustainable relationship.
Thanks Vow for the comments and analysis, it rings true and i am understanding that she wont change but i think he might to an extent…am working on it, at least he realises he has been a mama’s boy and that has damaged our marriage.
But as I mentioned earlier, there has been a six month break from her and that has healed our relationship. It may not be ideal but is far far better than earlier.
Well till now he is responding to my suggestions and yes a subtle message is going to MIL and SILs to behave (but there is no else). On the surface one of the SIL has also started to be civil so am trying to see it as a move in the right direction.
I feel the key is assertiveness, to stand our ground and create personal boundaries.
I know it all sounds high and is a long journey but right I have no option but t take it.
Though I can sustain myself there isnt much on my parents side to support me so I will have to make the best of what I have.
. I know I am finding humor in all this but at least thats one of the ways to retain sanity. I am not the types to look or seek dominance, could have easily done on hubby but I strongly believe in equality 