Phew! guys dont mind this but am planning to share my tale of woe with you. Recent events have not left me any option.
Story is like this: I married a guy who ‘loved’ me for more than a decade. I also have very strong but illogical feelings for him (so I guess I love him :D) Now the issue is that this is an Indian set up and the problem is that he lost his father to a terrorist attack. Therefore we had to live with the family consisting of widowed MIL and unmarried SIL. They tried their level best to make my life hell. Constant fights over money and attempts to control drained the first two years of our married life. The third year has been a respite with SIL married and gone from our daily life.
My hubby is a professional in a good organization, has gift of gab but is tongue tied in front of his mother. He is unassertive even if what she is saying is grossly incorrect. The sisters have been taught to treat us as servants with no respect but he is unable to express that. Worst is when I try to enforce respect, I am the ‘bad’ one.
What hurts is that in the past few days he refused to go out with my colleagues so as not to leave his mother ‘alone’ at home. I just cannot agree to this. I will not mortgage my life to someone’s needs and moods. Yes taking care is fine, but should I stop living my life?
The worst was, hubby was going to visit the city in which elder SIL is located. She has not called us even once in two years after she accused us of being bad to MIL and load of crap. Hubby mailed to her husband that he will be visiting for week but a neutral response, no invitation for home visit. So I told hubby I will give 1-2 things to take along just in case you have to visit her home.
MIL the day after told him ‘your sister will take you home’ and my hubby went ahead and bought dresses and jewellery to gift his neices!
In one stroke we allowed MIL to come in between and communicate, SIL to find opening to meet hubby without accepting (forget repenting) for her beahviour.
I was hopping mad! One act and all is gone! fought with hubby and he withdrew, feels as if he has gone cold on me :mad:
Hate that feel very bad.
He is hemmed in and unassertive I understand but changing decisions in a jiffy has no justification.
I have every right to express my anger but I do not deserve to be sidelined.
Request guys to throw some light on what can be done.
Divorce separation is not what I want. Assertiveness training is a long shot and time consuming.
How long have you been married? Three years total? And it seems you knew each other for 10 years before the marriage too, yes? I’m also curious what country you live in. India? Or elsewhere?
Sometimes we have to make difficult decisions in our lives, in order to take control of our own destiny. I hate to say it, but if he hasn’t asserted himself for you yet, he is never going to. So your choices are to stay and be miserable, or leave and be free (and happy, eventually). He was raised by his manipulative mother. She’s pulling the strings. If you really want to cut ties with her, you probably have to cut ties with him.
I’m truly sorry, but your husband doesn’t respect you more than his family. I don’t see that ever changing.
I know we have at least one female Indian on the boards who might be able to relate better to you than I can (Anaamika).
Thanks for the response Rachel! Yes its been 3 years and thinking deeply about what you said, he has tried to stand up for me many times, but these people are just too bad, they go on torturing him and there are times he gives up and doesnt know what to do.
He even left home once…so it is his emotional immaturity that makes him so unassertive.
Maybe it is time for the MIL to move in with one of her daughters instead of living with you. Since she seems to get along better with her daughters, I would think she would be happy for the chance to spend more time with them.
If standing up to them doesn’t make them stop abusing him and you, it’s time to disengage entirely. Some people are incapable of doing this (it’s a sign of co-dependency), and instead will let themselves (and in this case, their spouses) be subjected to terrible emotional abuse in the name of love. If your husband isn’t up for counseling to learn effective disengagement, and he won’t put his foot down and make his mom move out–which I understand would run counter to the culture he was born into, the brainwashing he’s experienced his entire life from an abusive mother, and his own vision of himself as a good son–you can’t *make *him.
One of the hardest lessons I’ve learned (which some people never do) is that you can only change yourself. It sounds trite, but it is really, really true. For your relationship to be worth saving, he has to change–when his family treats you and him like shit, that paradoxically makes him latch onto them even harder (and isn’t uncommon in survivors of lifelong emotional abuse). He thinks that kind of treatment is normal, as heartbreaking as that is to a caring observer–you. He’s pushing you away because you won’t willingly participate in his dysfunctional family ties.
He can’t change the way they treat him or you, he has to want to break away from their influence. But he doesn’t seem to want to do that. Look at it this way: if he isn’t willing to change for you, the person he swore to love and value above all others, how is this relationship salvageable? Do you really want to stay married to someone who values you less than his own mother? That’s not healthy. There’s no amount of cuddling or financial security or sex that’s worth your sanity.
Just read your responses Rachel and Kitten
The problem is that they sound scarily true…I try to stand up for myself and be assertive, with him, his mom and the sisters.
I am also not most perfect and it has been months and months of emotional learning that has gotten me here.
I understand what you are saying and will take me some time to decide.
Also, interestingly I deal with his mom as an adult and she knows it! She knows it is tough to push me around and does less of it!
I dont know how easy or tough it is for him to learn this…
After your suggestions, I am seriously considering counseling before taking a big decision.
Maybe there’s a big cultural difference between me and you, but what’s so wrong about a man buying dresses and jewelry for his nieces? If my brother has a little girl, I don’t think anyone (brother, brother’s wife, our parents) would think it odd or inappropriate for me to buy them dresses and jewelry.
I dont mind him buying stuff, but for a sister who said (I am quoting) “I dont have time to talk to you”, called you names, is rude to you and hasnt talked to you for 2 years…you dont know if she would even invite you home!
But even more importantly my problem is that the decision we took a day back was changed. I had told him I had set aside some stuff to take as gifts just in case.
He changed it without telling me!On that basis of one line from his mom!
Is that right?
More importantly I had fought hard and long to win him and myself respect and he frittered it away with one act.
Tell me why I shouldnt be hopping mad?
The gift thing is a minor issue. Unless I’m reading incorrectly, the gifts are for the nieces, not for the sister-in-law. What have the nieces done to not deserve gifts from their uncle?
The gifts are just a symptom of the real problem here. It looks like your husband was easily manipulated by his mother to change what you had already agreed upon previously. Whether you call it “brainwashing” or whatever, he chose to allow his mother over to override the decision he had made with you.
What you need is to be separated from the MIL, and that will either require your husband making her move elsewhere or you moving out without your husband. Your husband needs to know that his only choice will be whether he will remain living with his mother or you.
It sounds like your current situation can’t continue if you want to find happiness. If it’s you against everyone, including your husband, then your husband is part of the problem, no matter how genuine his love is for you. This is ultimately between you and your husband, and a decision that needs to be made without your mother-in-law’s involvement.
I’m confused by one thing - why have you had to live with MIL ever since you got married? Is the the “Indian set up” you mentioned in your OP? I guess I am confused by that, and why you and your husband can’t simply move out. Is this a financial issue, or a cultural norm I am too dense to understand? Can’s she go live with her daughter, if she can’t live alone?
I’d be angry too; I don’t blame you for that. But it seems to me that if your husband has regard for your marriage and the two of you as a separate entity - a married couple - and realises how unhappy you’ve been with your living arrangements, he’d be willing to move into separate housing with you. From what you describe, I don’t imagine it’s ever going to get significantly better as long as you all stay living together. When you say counseling - do you mean for your husband, for you, or for the two of you as a couple? (It doesn’t sound as if MIL would be real open to counseling. )
Your husband will probably always remain easily influenced by his mother to some extent - but you knew that, surely, since you knew him for ten years before marrying him. I imagine he’d have an easier time becoming independent and a husband if he’s not also living with his mother, though.
He doesn’t understand he’s trying to get his mother’s approval at his own expense. Until that revelation occurs to him he will not change. I have absolutely no idea if this is a cultural thing. Whether it is or isn’t you’re the low man on this totem pole and I don’t see things changing between you and his family regardless of any changes he makes.
If you truly love this person and he makes you happy then the best you could hope for is to send his mother to her daughter and divorce his side of the family. He can go to family functions by himself and buy whatever the heck he wants for his nieces. You’re out of that loop.
On a soap box note, I’ve always looked at someone’s family as part of the package. I try to find out very early in a relationship where I would fit it.
This segment of your post caught my attention. Why do you put ‘loved’ in quotations like that? Does this guy not truly love you? And conversely, you describe your feelings for him as “very strong but illogical feelings”; leading you to “guess” you love him. Do you really feel this relationship is based on an honest, true love for one another? Or something else?
Firstly thank you all for support!
I have been looking for real people to validate my feelings for quite sometime now. This means a lot to me, has helped me try to look at the situation from different angles and ask myself tough questions
Zsofia: he has recently realised how much this hurts me…but I am yet to figure out how much my feelings count
Chiroptera: Yes this is the ‘Indian set up’ wherein the widowed mother stays with the son’s family. In fact I am supposed to be subservient to the MIL. That I have defused tension and tamed her a bit has been due to my emotional maturation.
Also, note hubby has also done some tough talk with her many times and ‘tamed’ her a bit. but this is random, has had minor effect and she tried her level best to reverse
Magiver: ‘Appeasement’ of mother is what I have been noticing for a long time. And from Hitler to my MIL no one is ever tamed with appeasement. That is something he doesnt understand.
BTW he is more scared of her whining so gets manipulated to avoid that
Well the cultural thing prevents us to move out or MIL living with the daughters.
And yes Magiver I saw the warning signals right before marriage was in too deep to quit then
Ambivalid :)… Yes you caught the right expressions, I am questioning these feelings because of the scenario wherein he is giving more importance to his mom and not putting boundaries for our married life
Responding to the part in bold (mine) in the above quote: Yikes. I think you will find that people outside of this culture will find this hard to really understand! And from the other end, probably difficult to change anyone’s mind when it comes to firmly entrenched traditions. It’s probably not even fair to expect your MIL to change her views in regards to you resenting these roles. And if your husband was raised with those same norms, it’s going to be a big struggle for him to change.
There’s a saying (I am paraphrasing this poorly but it’s generally true) - don’t marry a person expecting him or her to change for you once you’re married. Which doesn’t help you now…but it seems like you’re dealing with deep-seated attitudes that go back generations. Perhaps the way your husband and his family are is they way they want to be, and it’s unfair of them to change for you? Since you knew all of this going in, on some level, did you expect the family dynamic to change? Or maybe you just didn’t realise. Just because a bunch or random strangers on an internet discussion forum agrees with you that this is antiquated and harmful thinking, doesn’t mean it’s antiquated or harmful for everyone.
Because, from what you write here, it seems as if you have become more influenced by Western attitudes towards marriage, while your husband and his family hold a different view. And, it appears you want them to conform to your ideas rather than the other way around. Which probably won’t happen, at least to any really significant degree. I’m only extrapolating from what you’ve posted here, but at this point it appears that you will chafe under any familial interference from his family. Will small changes make you feel better, or do you want complete capitulation? Because if the latter, it may well never happen to your satisfaction. I say this as the ex of someone who had a very co-dependent (although in a different way) relationship with his crazy mother.
Is there anyone - a person in authority, religious or otherwise, who can be a mediator in this situation?
Thanks for the time and energy…believe me it means a lot to me…you might be random strangers but present a point of view that I believe is correct.
Let me explain: Though ours is a traditional society it has undergone a lot of change. Both my SIL are married and settled in US and not staying with in-laws! In fact the elder one has been quite a handful for her in-laws. She has established an almost a western marriage in her family and my MIL is very proud of her! She in fact gloats about it!
My husband is also an educated guy with very liberal views, we even had discussions regarding feminism before marriage and I was influenced by his views, the problem is when it has come to execution, he is unable to handle the force that his mom and sisters are.
So to me it is a matter of how assertive you are and able to create and maintain your boundaries.
Hmm havent thought of mediation as yet but somehow it would be tough to find a mediator and also get the other side to accept and agree to change
In my experience you will never come before an Indian man’s mom (speaks the fellow Indian). Our whole culture is set up that way, and wife is a distant second at best. You are either going to have to live with it, wait it out until mother passes on, or just cool down a lot on your demands. Yes, you will have to compromise - she never will. Why should she? She gets everything she wants. You could try to just do your own thing but she probably will never let you alone.
Or you could go the divorce route. I mean, you can try and lay it out to your husband that things must change, but that means you have to follow up.
SIL are different - they are daughters, and mother is not supposed to live with her daughters. they can grow up and be independent and be with their own families. Son has to always be faithful and loyal, though. It’s why I didn’t marry an Indian guy. Not that they are all like that, but it is cultural and it’s difficult to overthrow such baggage.
wildspirit - your husband may have extremely liberal views and be sympathetic to modern/feminist attitudes, but as you infer - views and opinions are meaningless unless acted upon, with conviction. This may be something you will learn by experience instead of observation, unfortunately!
Again - why should your MIL, or your sisters-in-law, conform to your views? Apparently the dynamic is working just fine for them. And for your husband. This is their world-view, and you’re the one coming in trying to change it all for no reason other than your comfort. Why should they change? I’m on your “side” culturally for what it’s worth, but what’s the point? What are you going to accomplish? Except for getting your own needs as a wife and as a woman met. Which, apparently, in this culture is not that important by Western standards.
and there are times he gives up and doesnt know what to do.
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