Well, I just got into a screaming fight with Finn in another thread last week, so I’m as close to a neutral observer as you’re gonna get. So maybe you wanna reconsider your style.
Hmm.
Yeah, I think I won’t be attending your charm school, thanks just the same.
Didn’t say you weren’t charming, just that you’re arguing like a 3-year-old.
Finn: Spoke says things that can be construed as anti-Semitism.
Spoke: Er, uh… I know you are, but what am I?
Damuri: THERE’S BUTTER ON MY FACE (or something equally incomprehensible)
Well no, for a few reasons.
Most importantly I can’t be bothered to spend the time to do a search. I just did one and it took far too long.
Secondly because he doesn’t come out and say anything that is explicitly racist. Sometimes he gets close but then backs off when he gets too close (e.g. we were talking about the causes of suicide bombing and he got close to saying its because of those crazy arabs but then backed down.
Finally because I said he “applies a different threshhold for racism against muslims versus Jews” not that he “says racist things about muslims or proposed discriminating against muslims”. The best example I can think of is his defense of the Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law - Wikipedia which denies Palestinian spouses of Israeli citizens the right to Israeli citizenship, a right provided to all other spouses. The children of such a union are also denied Israeli citizenship, even if they are born in Israel and must leave the country by a certain age. His excuse is that this is justified by Israeli national security concerns. So I guess I may have broadened the scope of his racism from Palestinian to muslim (which is unfair because I have no reason to believe that his permissive attitude towards racism extends beyond arab muslims).
Well I should have said Palestinians to be more precise.
Its useless in any event. There is noone you will catch with that filter that you would not catch with the other filters unless you investigate all muslims which is why I say you want to investigate all muslims.
And how many Icelanders do you think are on that flight to Pakistan? Filtering for muslims does NOTHING that the other filters would not do and how exactly would you identify the muslims on the planes?
Yes I understand that and its because you are racist.
So now that we have gone from applying muslimness as the primary or initial filter to applying it as one of many filters, tell me how many Jews and hindus get picked up by the other filters that applying this muslim filter will weed out? And if they do indeed trip all the other filters why the heck would you want to weed them out.
Yes and I have explained how I got from your statements to the inevitable conclusion that you want to investigate all muslims.
Do you understand what I am saying? Should I type slower? You have said thing that could only be followed by investigating all muslims. If you had not thought through the implications of your position and now would like to retract and revise your position to try and elminate the racist elements, please feel free but I don’t know how you will be able to satisfy your racist fears without being racist.
I’m not accusing you of having hateful KKK type racism, I’m accusing you of having the sort of racism born out of mindnumbing fear.
No common sense applied to your words do that.
What?!?! So you are saying that I am moving the goal posts by presenting an argument that you are racist to prove that you want all muslims investigated? I am proving you are racist by showing you want all muslims investigated.
I don’t thihnk you cry yourself to sleep at night because of anything I have said, I think the quiet and still of the night brings your life into stark relief and you weep until you fall into unconsciousness.
This is such a tangent that its probably not worth addressing but I can’t let someone be WRONG on the internet. You made a claim that you were being scorned by kneejerk liberals. I pointed out that just about everyone on that thread (who didn’t end up getting banned) was scorning you. I guess I made the assumption that not everyone else on that thread was a kneejerk liberal but assuming that is true, then your initial statement was incorrect.
And that is have my impression of your dishonesty and stupidty skyrocket. Well done. Now…
This latest set of nonsense from you is so non-responsive to what I wrote it’s almost not worthy of a reply. But since it offers another opportunity to show your dishonesty and stupidty in full flower, why not?
First, just for grins, let’s start with a post to another poster. Stay with me Douchebag, even you will see the relevance. Well, maybe , maybe not. But I’m feeling optimistic.
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
Well no, for a few reasons.
Most importantly I can’t be bothered to spend the time to do a search. I just did one and it took far too long.
Secondly because he doesn’t come out and say anything that is explicitly racist. Sometimes he gets close but then backs off when he gets too close (e.g. we were talking about the causes of suicide bombing and he got close to saying its because of those crazy arabs but then backed down.
[QUOTE=Ibn Warraq]
Could you please link me to where Finn said racist things about Muslims or proposed discriminating against Muslim Americans.
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
So we have another example of you opening your big yap and spouting bullshit and getting called on it. Again you were asked to substantiate your bullshit and you can’t.
Oh yes, you offered a final “reason” but that was just the cherry on top of a bullshit sundae.
But once again you seem unable to even agree with yourself:
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
…If you can’t defend your position then perhaps your position has no merit
[/QUOTE]
So you’ve made two claims in this thread and were asked to substantiate those claims with direct cites. But you’re not able to substantiate either! No, the whole substantiate-your-claims-in-a-debate thing is just not for you. Well, you may want to simplify that to: this whole “debate” thing just isn’t for you. It requires a much greater degree of non-stupidity, knowledge of fallacies, and honesty than you possess.
The filter serves two purposes, Dadouchi. To include in the pool all potential perpetrators and to exclude those who are likely to not be. I gave you examples demonstrating its helpfulness. But feel free to put you naive PC ideology over common sense and safety.
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
And how many Icelanders do you think are on that flight to Pakistan?
[/QUOTE]
Your stupidity just got ratcheted up yet another notch. That’s talent, son. Talent!
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
Filtering for muslims does NOTHING that the other filters would not do and how exactly would you identify the muslims on the planes?
[/QUOTE]
I just explained to you the benefits. Reread. Without the inner wall of your rectum between you and the monitor.
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
Yes I understand that and its because you are racist.
[/QUOTE]
THIS is your response to my agreeing with your steps and wanting additional filters? Hmm, I wonder why…
You’ve moved the indicator on your stupidity meter up yet another notch. Like I said, TALENT!
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
So now that we have gone from applying muslimness as the primary or initial filter to applying it as one of many filters, tell me how many Jews and hindus get picked up by the other filters that applying this muslim filter will weed out? And if they do indeed trip all the other filters why the heck would you want to weed them out.
[/QUOTE]
I’m really having a hard time comprehending what you write. It’s like trying to have a conversation with a baby where I can only see a minute degree of sense in their words. Maybe better is that you ARE Martini form Cuckoo’s Nest—no matter how much time someone takes in explaining some very basic things to you, your response is, “I bet a nickel”.
But what the hell, this is just too good. It seems that you’re surprised that when someone describes something as a FIRST step, that other steps would also be involved. Possibly even subsequent steps. Let me just say that the rest of the world would not be similarly confounded and confused by such consistency.
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
Yes and I have explained how I got from your statements to the inevitable conclusion that you want to investigate all muslims.
[/QUOTE]
Nope. Not only is it not inevitable. I explained clearly that NO INVESTIGATING SOULD OR SHOULD BE DONE AFTER THE FIRST FILTER IS APPLIED. THE ONLY THING THAT SHOULD BE DONE IS TO APPLY OTHER FILTERS.
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
I can’t see how it can be any clearer. Yet you’re intent on injecting confusion into it or ignoring the fact that THAT is my position. Get that? The position you ascribed to me is not when I advocate. The one I do advocate is that one I have told you now,—directly—more times than you can count.
[/QUOTE]
POP QUIZ: Who do you think has a better grasp of the position Person X holds, Person X or Person Shithead?
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
Do you understand what I am saying? Should I type slower? You have said thing that could only be followed by investigating all muslims.
[/QUOTE]
Hehe. You say this and I keep telling and showing you you are wrong, but you’re on a mission of some sort and nothing will have you veer off course. Full speed ahead to The Most Stupid, Most Ignorant, Most Dishonest Poster on the SDMB title. Well, there is some competition, no doubt, but you’re looking like a shoo-in right now.
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
If you had not thought through the implications of your position and now would like to retract and revise your position to try and elminate the racist elements, please feel free but I don’t know how you will be able to satisfy your racist fears without being racist.
[/QUOTE]
You still don’t understands the irrelevance of your racist accusation, do you? :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
I’m not accusing you of having hateful KKK type racism, I’m accusing you of having the sort of racism born out of mindnumbing fear.
[/QUOTE]
Good for you.
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
What?!?! So you are saying that I am moving the goal posts by presenting an argument that you are racist to prove that you want all muslims investigated? I am proving you are racist by showing you want all muslims investigated.
[/QUOTE]
You know, this is just too perfect. So perfect it deserves it’s own post. Which is coming right up.
In the meantime, how about you try to substantiate the TWO claims you made in this thread that you have been asked for. Hell, one would be a nice start.
The crickets are getting tired.
-
I’m going to get reply number 666. Neener neener.
(on preview. Nooooooooooooooooooooooo, curse you Magellan!) -
For those curious about what Damuri is going on about (without cites, as always). First Damuri claimed that citizenship laws which did not apply to Arabs in general but only to Palestinians in specificwere racist. I pointed out that it wasn’t an issue of ‘Arabness’ as the metric, but one of nationality. At the time Damuri evidently felt strongly about the issue that he immediately leapt in action and… discussed Mexican drug cartels. Then he changed the subject a bit more and demonstrated his ignorance when he claimed thatthe battle of Jenin didn’t sound like house-to-house-fighting to him. No, seriously.
Finally Damuri got around to the issue of Palestinian citizenship in Israel. I pointed out that"Arabs are allowed to gain citizenship in that manner, and the issue is one of a nation that is at war with Israel, not a ‘race’ they don’t like. " As well as the fact that roughly 1/5 of Israel’s population is made up of Palestinians and their descendants who stayed in Israel and are currently Israeli citizens. (I suppose I could have also pointed out that Jordaians also have a high chance of being Palestinian, but they’re also not covered under the law). He then reiterated a claim that it was about racial demographics. SoI pointed out some facts he was overlooking.
Then, demonstrating his almost encyclopedic knowledge of the conflict, he admitted thathe was totally unaware of the truth of Bandar’s “not a mistake but a crime” comment about Arafat turning down the offer he was given during negotiations with Israel. I pointed out that, actually, I had already provided two cites to him, one from Mideastweb and one from The New Yorker. (He later went to refer to one of those as"the Saudi site". I have no idea which he thinks is Saudi, but I’m going to go with The New Yorker becuase that’s funnier.
Of course, he trotted out his errors about the UN creating Israel againand pretended that nations (by which, I suppose, he means a few Czechs some of whom were later executed by the government for their role in it) sold military supplies to proto-Israelis. I also corrected his mistaken claim that the Arab Peace Initiative was a viable plan if it would lead to Hamas immediately being able to import whatever weaponry it wanted. To which Damuri responded, in his unique style, “Its not viable because you don’t like it and you don’t trust the Palestinians?” And he asked “What sort of two state plan would NOT allow Hamas to do what you say?” To which I pointed out “You mean, one that had phased withdrawal and was contingent on security and stability being maintained? Nah, there’s no difference between that an an immediate, unilateral withdrawal.”
He alsobrought up his repeatedly-debunked canard that all the “formative” documents of Israel “contemplate the right of return” and his repeatedly debunked canard that the UN “created Israel”. and I mean repeatedly debunked, look at the bit at the bottom of this post. He also (again) claimed that the British somehow facilitated the creation of Israel or at least Jewish immigration. Malthus took over smacking-Damuri-in-the-head duty for that one. I also pointed out that the British actually kept some Jews imprisoned (for the crime of trying to get into Israel) and would not let them leave and go to Israel until 1949.
Most amusingly of all, Damuri uttered a quote that: “If you used facts and reason, you could convince me of anythign that facts and reason would support.”
That still gives me a chuckle.
There was some more pointing out of Damuri’s silliness… And some pointing out Paul in Saudi’s silliness… and some pointing out Honesty’s silliness, and some pointing out Dick Dastardly’s nearly unique-among-Dopers dishonest silliness, and…
Well, that’s about as far as I feel like dredging through the thread, even with my default view set to 200 posts a page. If Damuri would like to cite wtf he’s going on about, that’d be nifty.
Yes. Because that is what you have done. It’s really quite amazing that this is just dawning on you.
Unbelievable. review the thread. Look at your first comment to me and the many, many posts to you laying out—explicitly—what you did and what has been incumbent upon you to do.
Once again: you accused me of wanting “all Muslims to be investigated”. I asked you to substantiate that claim. You have not done so. At all.
But, I must say, that I do not think that even grand stupidity like you possess could produce this post at this point, you are even more dishonest than stupid. At least you’ve cleared that up.
Oh, and:
I can only assume that this is either Damuri’s utter stupidity on display, or his unflinching dishonesty. I have no blessed idea what he’s even talking about, but as usual there no cite attached. With Damuri, this is a very good clue that he’s making it up.
As usual Damuri is the only idiot who’s truly dense enough to claim that *I am one coy motherfucker. * “That Finn, such a subtle, reserved fellow. Why doesn’t he tell us what he really thinks?” Damuri laments.
Just like his absurd back-slapping nonsense whereby his hounding me over imaginary accusations of anti-Semitism had somehow prevented me from insulting Ibn, he’s again imagining me almost doing something and then “backing off” because of… well, who the fuck knows. The end result is that he can’t cite me saying, or even implying anything racist about Arabs since I ‘backed off’. In other words, I didn’t actually say or imply any such thing, ever.
Which is of course a lie.
Show me anybody who says that we have to investigate Muslims in the US government because we can’t trust them not to have “very close personal ties” to the Arab nations, or that while they’re not-necessarily-but-possibly-conspirators-and-enemy agents they can’t be trusted to be as rational as white Christians (or, at least, Spoke) and have a political view of what’s best for America without conflating America with a nation half way across the globe.
Do that, and I’ll happily call that person a racist, because *I actually have the same threshold and some folks are desperately trying to pretend otherwise.
*
Point to a field that has an over-representation of American Muslims and claim that that’s prima facia evidence that they’ve formed a cabal to hire/promote other Muslims at the expense of non-Muslims, because ya know Muslims look out for their own and they don’t mind hurting non-Muslims if it helps Muslims and, hey, they’re just clannish like that? Do that, and I’ll be happy to point out that’s racist conspiracy mongering, because *I actually have the same threshold and some folks are desperately trying to pretend otherwise.
*
You know, I am both not very good at Pit threads and do not have the energy to invest in them and thus when I do read them mostly just lurk … but this made me laugh out loud. Yup. Master of subtlety and restraint that Finn! It’s all about the finesse.
Of course I also giggled some too at DA’s having made a pretty serious claim, saying that Finn made some racist statements, and then saying that he couldn’t be bothered to actually find the statement and besides, Finn never actually says anything racist, it’s just that DA could tell he was getting close.
Yup, the man is a murderer, a serial killer, but I can’t be bothered with providing the evidence and besides he never actually kills anyone, he always, slyly stops with giving an evil eye. But I know where he was going with that look!
Now I disagree with Finn about the utility of calling out people on apparent anti-Semitic comments and will go out of my way to give people every presumption of just being plain ignorant - even when they call me a “Jewish Supremicist” bigot for having said that there are historic and sociocultural reasons for Jews having achieved in some very particular collection of venues, that Jews are not over-represented as Nobel Prize winners because of clannishness. Mostly the asswipes will demonstrate their own asswipeness without having to be called out. But at least when Finn says that someone is a hater he can cite letter and verse where they were saying the things that the haters say. The man has his cites at the ready.
I’ll go back to occasional lurking now. Carry on.
I’ve done that already. The fact that you are unable to recognize that is really not my fault.
When it comes to using the race card where it is not warranted, thats exactly what he does.
Yes, thats exactly right.
So how do you feel about his defense of the Israeli citizenship and immigration laws?
Again, for those who are curious, this seems to be what Damuri is going on about.
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
When it comes to using the race card where it is not warranted, thats exactly what he does.
Yes, thats exactly right.
[/quote]
Like I said, no need to call asswipes out.
That he has accurately portrayed the citizenship laws of Israel and that you have neither accurately portrayed them nor what Finn has said.
Just as an aside, I also know, from past threads, that Finn will clearly recognize that Israel has a record of discrimination against its minority population even though they have full rights under the law, a record of discrimination no better than that many other countries have with their minority populations (albeit no worse than most either) and makes no apologies for those inequities. He does of course note the hypocrisy of those who seem to have a particular obsession with the wrongs done by the Israelis (and there is no exceptional shortage of them). Myself, I think the fact that so many others are as bad or worse is a poor defense. Israel should do better. It is in Israel’s own informed self-interest to do better. But the citizenship issue you raise - that’s not one of them.
Now I feel free to say flatly, you are a liar.
If you done it, just point to it. No, you won’t. Because you know it’s not there. You just don’t have the backbone to admit you were wrong. Instead you keep compounding your error with more stupidity and more dishonesty. But by all means, keep digging.
This thread is marvelous. Now anytime you pull your dishonest bullshit in any other thread people just come back here for cites as to your propensity to demonstrate ignorance, mind-numbing stupidity, rampant dishonest, and, of course—flat out lies.
But let’s give you another opportunity to either substantiate, retract, or display your Douchebagerie and lies.
Crickets, get ready. Okay, Douchebag, GO!
And just for the hell of it, let’s put a spotlight on your lying hypocrisy, using your own words:
[QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi]
…If you can’t defend your position then perhaps your position has no merit
[/QUOTE]
So, in this one thread you manage to go against your own oh-so-honorable principle on two different issues. Comedy gold, Dadouchi, comedy friggin GOLD. For those who are not you, any way.
(I hope you don’t ind the pussy-pink, the coward-yellow doesn’t show up well on the screen.)
Says the guy who can’t defend his position against gay marriage OR his position that Muslims are inherently terrorists. And doesn’t even know it.
Perfect. You must have seen this:
…and confused it with your Bat Signal calling you onto the scene. Understandable. But I gotta tell, you, Dadouchi’s got talent. He might give you a run for your money.
Wow, the monkeys are STILL hurling feces in here. Don’t they ever get tired?
This is true. And I also applaud the SCOI for pretty routinely slapping down such nonsense when it pops up. I will note that most of the discrimination that I’m aware of tends to be issues of private and individual racism rather than governmental or systemic, so that’s somewhat ‘better’, if such a thing can be said of racism at all. There are still some disturbing issues in Israeli society of course, such as the disproportionate quality of the various school systems, but to be honest I haven’t researched Israeli educational policy thoroughly enough to say anything more than that it looks bad
Strictly speaking I don’t use that as a defense. It’s sort of the difference between an ad hominem fallacy and a factual refutation coupled you “oh, and you’re also an idiot” 
I do point out from time to time that there are some strange standards that are often applied to the conflict. Hama, I think, is a perfect example of that. Through deliberate, methodical action the Syrian regime butchered roughly 10-25 thousand human beings, mostly civilians, and then advertised that fact to the rest of the civilian population to make a point. Many folks who hold forth about these sorts of issues have no clue about it, but Deir Yassin is memorialized yearly. Just a few years ago Lebanon shelled the living daylights out of a Palestinian camp and treated refugees brutally, and was met with a resounding “hunh?” by much of the international community. Just like, in the Palestinian territories (rarely if ever actually officially enforced as an official law, IIRC, but often carried out as murder for ‘collaborators’) it’s illegal to sell land to any Jew, not just an Israeli. Punishable by death.
And that isn’t a craftily coy accusation of racism, as Damuri likes to claim. It’s simply to point out that some people argue for a certain narrative that prevents a nuanced view of the complexities of the situation. It’s the “pseudocomplexity” that newcomer rails against.