I paid $300 for an hour of normal sex and cuddling in bed. Not every man who pays for sex is looking for something wierd.
The life of a professional sex worker can be rewarding and relatively safe (no more dangerous than that of a security guard or police officer). Many women in desperate circumstances or with severe personal problems go into the profession, but many women also make a clear, rational choice to do so. It is not my place to judge another person’s career or lifestyle, so long as that lifestyle doesn’t hurt other people.
First look at the information at Prostitutes’ Education Network. Get educated about AIDS and other STDs. Always use a condom, even for oral sex. Contact local escort services to obtain additional information. They can usually be found on the web or in your local adult paper.
:::whap::: (that would be me, hitting my forehead)
I was calculating weekly.
Nonetheless, that’s a lot of BJs, even at 3-4/week. For not very much money.
I’d rather sit in an office.
There’s nothing wrong with being an escort. It is wrong to condemn a person if that is what they want to do with themselves.
People interested in learning about the US escort scene should go to http://www.bigdoggie.net - you’d be surprised at the sort of thing that goes on in a city near you. I would refer A girl’s friend to this site, were she here.
I agree. You can’t control her decisions, only your own. The best thing I think you can do is to provide consequences for her actions.
Tell her if she decides to proceed with this, you can’t support her. If she values you, then she can consider your feelings and make her own decision. At least it can be an informed one. If she doesn’t value you, then you’re better off without her friendship.
It worked for Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman.
Tell her that she will never be able to sustain an intimate relationship again. Tell her that she will never be able to trust a man again, as she will soon assume that all they want from her is sex. Tell her that she will rapidly lose self-respect for herself, despite what she thinks. Tell her she is putting her life in danger, not only from STDs, but from muggings, rapes, and just plain sickos. Not all of them are drooling maniacs. Some of them are Patrick Batemans. Tell her to get into councilling PRONTO.
If she’s tired of not getting anything out of sex, tell her to try not having it for a while. Tell her to try developing intimacy without sex to begin with. She sounds like a VERY insecure person who thinks that the only way she can have power over men is if she screws/blows them. Try and convince her that there are other ways. She needs to empower herself, no man is going to do that for her.
And tell her all this NOW. Once she starts down this road, it’ll be VERY hard to turn down a shitload of money for self-respect, especially if she doesn’t think she’s worthy of self-respect.
Do NOT listen to the other posters who treated this lightly. You can help her. She told you she was thinking about doing this because she wanted to see if you’d talk her out of it. DO. And soon.
Few simple phrases, American Psycho, coathanger, prostitution has to look worse now.
I’m not taking this lightly. I think it’s better to give someone the accurate information and allow them to make their own decision, than to self-righteously assume moral superiority and patronize them.
The facts are that, done improperly, prostitution can be very damaging its practitioners. Done properly, prostitutes have a low rate of STDs, a high tax-free income, and a reasonable rate of relationship success.
I know this from first-hand reports; I’ve never worked as a prostitute, but I’ve known quite a few current and former prostitutes (yes, I have a very wide circle of aquaintances).
Like any other consensual activity, I am of the opinion that our society would be better served to regulate prostitution as a profession rather than prohibit it.
No expert I on the commercial sex scene.
However, I grant there is a world of difference between hanging out on the street corner and charging $30 for a car date, and having a glamorous apartment and tricks that take you to Bermuda for a weekend of fun at $5000.
One might argue, as the old joke does, that the former is a whore, while the latter is a career woman.
I make no judgement about any of that. I only point out that if I had a friend seeking to enter the acting profession, I would urge her not to plan her finances based on Julia Roberts’ salary as an industry average. Most people trying to become successes at the acting game fail. There is a reasonably large group that make enough to get by, but do not ever achieve stardom, and of course the tiny fraction that do.
I suspect we can draw a parallel to the world of the prostitute. If setting oneself up in a glamorous apartment were so easy, one wonders at the proliferation of street hookers. What makes your friend convinced that she can succeed at that level?
- Rick
I’d suggest watching the movie “Nuts” instead.
Barbra Streisand is a high-class call girl who only has “businessman” clients. But her last client wanted more than she was willing to give, so he started beating her. Fortunately for Babs, she got a lucky hit and killed the guy. But then she was first indicted for murder, then put under a microscope to see if she was mentally incompetent.
Seems she would do a lot better with better self esteem given to her from a counselor. I don’t understand why she has to have sex with her boyfriends in the first place. Why doesn’t she just say NO to it & have nice platonic friendships?
Probably cause she thinks she has nothing else to give but sex? Given enough time, I could find something in any woman that they can give besides sex thats worth just as much.
One should not, in general, attempt to obtain factual information from movies.
You know what I find entertaining about all this is the (coff)hypocrisy(coff).
I’ve seen it so many times - and pissed off so many people by mentioning it. I think I’ll try again.
It’s considered perfectly reasonable to marry a man and expect him to support you forever. It’s considered righteous to refuse him sex until he has signed and sealed that contract. People may frown a bit about a woman marrying solely for money, but t’ain’t no big thing. If she pretends even a modicum of affection for the man, that makes it all okay. [1]
“If he gets milk for free, he’ll never buy the cow.” I’ve heard this concept expressed by nice, average, normal women who were APPALLED at the thought that their attitude could be considered mercenary - after all, they weren’t marrying him because of his money, that was just what they were owed as part of the bargain. [1]
I’ve known many women who essentially dated for money. They would only date men who had the cash flow to take them on trips, buy them nice gifts (up to and including financing luxury cars), etc. If they get too obvious about it, there may be a few snide comments made occasionally, but never the kind of wholesale condemnation expressed here. ‘Sex’ was part of ‘dating’ to most of those women. [1]
Even here, the suggestion that she should marry or find a steady boyfriend so that she can get paid for sex was passed with nary a comment.
But because this woman has decided to go about the same process HONESTLY AND OPENLY instead of hypocritically pretending that it’s ‘all for love’, suddenly she’s horrible and evil and her friends should shun her.
GET OVER IT!! Just because it’s not something YOU would do does NOT make it automatically evil!! Just because it’s related to SEX doesn’t automatically make it wrong!! Holy Deity on an Onion Bun, this society is sick!
Gods above and below, do you ALWAYS dump your friends every time they decide to do something you wouldn’t? Or consider a life or career choice that you think would be bad for them? If this woman was MARRYING someone because of their money, would you be suggesting that her friend should never see her again? (Oh yeah, and go ahead, tell her how horrible and evil and stupid she is - that’ll improve her self-esteem!) Crimeny, it’s not like she’s already started shooting smack and is trying to talk you into trying it!
I would definitely give her the links and info provided here that could help her make an informed decision. I’d give her all the info I could on the subject, both good AND bad. Some factual data (as opposed to your vague horror stories) might be enough to change her mind. And if not, if this is something she sincerely wants to do, at least she’ll have a better chance of doing it right and avoiding the possible pitfalls.
If she has self-esteem problems or other emotional difficulties that are affecting her ability to function and make personal decisions, I would certainly agree with suggesting counseling - as I would for ANY person with such problems. In this twisted society of ours, that sort of emotional damage can definitely be a reason for someone to choose an ‘unacceptable’ line of work, and that can truly be dangerous.
However, there ARE other reasons for becoming a sex professional, and there ARE perfectly happy, self-confident, competent people in those professions. They can make EXTREMELY good money (more than enough to fund their own retirement), can have personal relationships (and even MARRY!), can do all the same things you so-called ‘normal, moral’ people do. And do them well.
[1] Please note that I am not saying that ALL women date/marry/screw/whatever strictly for these reasons. I know many women who do not and would not. (Although ‘monetary status’ is usually (almost always) at least a part of the criteria used in selecting relationships.) But I am saying that to do so is reasonably acceptable in our society, as long as one LIES about what one is doing. And that you people are astoundingly judgmental and hypocritical on this subject - not what I have come to expect from Dopers.
For reference, I am not and never have been a sex professional of any sort, nor do I play one in real life - I don’t have the self-confidence I would need to do well in such a career, so I’ve taken other paths. But I have known people who worked in these areas - some loved it, some hated it…just like any other work.
Oh yeah, and as SingleDad said…quit acting as if real life is actually like all those bad movies and TV shows you’ve seen. Sheesh!
I got a good laugh from that, especially upon reading the sig line that immediately follows your post.
I love you man!!!
Keeping in mind it is only my humble opinion:
I honestly think your friend is turning your crank, and you should call her on it. What she really wants is to see you turn cartwheels trying to disuade her from this foolish course. It kind of sounds like this behavior, on your and her part, is a pattern in this relationship.
Were I you, I think I might, instead, ask my friend why she feels the need to continuously ellicit this response from her friends? What’s it doing for her? Tell her that you do care about her and you’d really like for her to ‘know’ that on a level that doesn’t require that you both play these roles.
Keep in mind it is only my humble opinion.
redtail: you admit to never having been a prostitute. Have you ever talked to an ex-prostitute about what she went through? I’m not talking about exotic dancers, or phone sex operators. I’m talking about prostitutes. It can destroy your sense of self.
Marrying for money is just as bad. I agree with you. But when a man is PAYING to use a woman for sex, it can quite often for that woman, be representative of that man taking away her power. We are taught from an early age that every man wants the virgin but screws the whore. Imagine what that can do to a woman with low self-respect? Because she’s the whore, no man will want her. And since she already has low self-esteem, and now she thinks no man will want her, she thinks she is worthless.
Even if she is a strong person, she is exerting power over men through sex, which is not healthy. For ANYONE. I don’t judge right or wrong. I judge “healthy” and “not-healthy.” And selling yourself for sex is not-healthy.
I think I come down somewhere between SwimmingRiddles and SingleDad on this one. From A girl’s description, this is a woman with some serious problems; she’s not likely to be one of those who comes out of a career as a hooker with her self-esteem intact, because she doesn’t have much to begin with.
Does she need counseling? Absolutely, regardless of her choice of profession. And with any luck, if she gets into counseling first, she might realize why it would be a really bad idea for her to go down that road.
Still, I wouldn’t try to scare her out of it; I don’t believe that works well for the person being scared, even when it ‘works’ in the sense of accomplishing the immediate aim - in this case, keeping her from hooking.
I’d suggest a two-pronged strategy: (1) explain to her why you feel she’s going into this for all the wrong reasons, and try to get her to try counseling. And try to talk her into holding off on the prostitution career for a few months to see if she sees the issue a bit differently after having begun working out her problems with a counselor - but emphasize that you feel that this isn’t ultimately about her career choice; she should keep on seeing the counselor regardless of whether she goes into hooking or not.
And (2) starting from the site SingleDad recommended, try to help her educate herself on the nature of the profession she’s considering, and the nuts and bolts of minimizing the risks inherent in it. Sometimes the closer we look at something, the more we realize we don’t want what we thought we wanted. But ultimately it’s her choice to make, so at least help her go into it with eyes open, if she keeps on leaning toward going that route.
SwimmingRiddles: The acknowledged prostitutes that I have known were men rather than women (straight men engaged in straight sex for pay, in case that matters). I’m sure that affects the situation, as gender affects most situations in our society. And then also some female exotic dancers that were available for ‘private performances’ … but they WEREN’T prostitutes, as they would carefully and emphatically explain. :rolleyes:
I will agree that there are many miserable prostitutes out there. But there are also happy hookers. Simply getting paid for sex is NOT in and of itself sufficient to ruin your self-esteem and your life. Having all of society on your neck because you got paid for sex may be enough to do so, however.
So selling yourself in some other way is OK, but for sex is bad? Exerting power over men in some other way is OK, but through sex is wrong? I still think you ARE judging right and wrong; a rose by any other name, so to speak. And you, personally, have the knowledge of exactly what is “healthy” and “not-healthy” for everyone that has ever lived? That’s pretty frigging amazing; I bow to your wisdom.
Please explain to me the difference between “I won’t have sex with you until you make a commitment to give me half of your stuff for the rest of your life” and “Give me money for sex”. Please explain to me how “Take me out and buy me
dinner and give me some jewelry and if I like it enough, I may consent to have sex with you so that you’ll give me more another time” is inherently more healthy than “Give me money and I will have sex”. Please explain to me the difference between ‘marrying for money’ and ‘getting paid for sex’, when the leverage used to require marriage IS sex.
This woman is not talking about standing on street corners for $25 a pop; she’s basically talking about a more honest version of the ‘dating’ game. Why is the dishonest version perfectly acceptable and even recommended, but the other is evil?
Please note, I am not recommending prostitution as a career. I am most definitely not recommending it for this woman. If this were my friend and I felt that she was making a bad decision, I’d advise against it. I generally try to do so by providing information rather than just spouting personal opinions. If I thought that she was making a bad decision due to mental or emotional problems, I’d try to talk her into counseling. In this particular situation, I agree with the various posters that have said to try to dissuade her with evidence and/or persuade her to wait until she’s had counseling and/or et cetera. Pretty much what RTFirefly said, as far as methods.
But all of this “ooh, that’s so WRONG” and “ugh, that’s DISGUSTING” and “oh, she’s so SICK” is, in my opinion, rather absurd, considering that women in our culture regularly auction themselves off and everyone thinks that’s just fine and dandy, as long as they play by the rules that say you can’t admit that’s what’s happening. To me, THAT is much more damaging to both the individual and society than a simple and honest ‘sex for money’ transaction. And, to me, the various suggestions that Agirl should drop her friend like a hot potato are appalling.
It is not that I’m taking the situation lightly - it is that I don’t believe those attitudes and ideas are productive in this situation; I don’t think they will have any effect on this woman. She already KNOWS that people think prostitution is wrong; as you said, it’s part of the culture. As someone suggested, that may be WHY she’s doing it. If not, your claims to Moral Superiority (whether Christian or Psychological) certainly ain’t gonna change her mind. And I agree with those who have said that yelling at her or trying to scare her more than likely won’t work - again, she’s already heard all that stuff. 0n the other hand, approaching things from a neutral (i.e., NOT morality based), matter-of-fact stance with factual information may work. And is, in my experience, the only approprite approach to use with another adult human being.
But I do believe that those attitudes and ideas are more indicative of hypocrisy and judgmentality (yes, I just made that up, but I think I like it!) than any ‘greater truth’ or honest assessment of the situation. THAT is my complaint in this thread; I’m not arguing against dissuading Agirl’s friend from her proposed course.
Well, this is just nonsense.
First of all prostitution is not “selling yourself for sex” it is selling sex for money. I fail to see how this is any different from any other act I could perform with my body to earn money.
In few things are “healthy” and “not-healthy” absolutes. It all depends on your relationship with the item/task in question. I agree with others that it sounds like A Girl’s friend is considering this for all the wrong reasons. I strongly feel that elbow3 is correct and the friend likely said it purely for the attention it would get her.
But in this case it is not prostitution that is unhealthy it is the friends mentality that is unhealthy.
On a broader societal level I agree that prostitution is bad for 95% of those who practice it. But not because prostitution is inherently bad, but because our society has attached a stigma allows only for those who already feel rejected by society. By this I mean that I, personally, would not choose prostitution; not because the sex would be damaging to me, but because society would reject me.