Featherlou, you’ve brought up a lot of good points. Re: #1 and #2, I totally feel you on this issue. but I’ve also been on the other end of it. Kids just have phone radar…if you try calling your friends when the baby is asleep, the baby will sense that you are using the phone, and will immediately wake up. If the kids are outside playing and you try to call someone, one of the kids will have an accident and run screaming into the house so you have to tend to them. If the kids are sitting peacefully, watching TV, and you try to make a call, they think you aren’t paying attention so they can get away with being little bastards, and you have to interrupt your conversation over and over to say “STOP THAT!”
Throatshot, A baby shower is what I refer to as a “hen party”. The conversation will always revolve around childbirth, breast-feeding, or children! And if a baby is present, everyone will ooh and ahh for a while. I can understand how a CBC would find the entire experience annoying. For the record, I’m a woman who would one day like to be fruitful and multiply, but I cannot tolerate a gathering of women for longer than an hour or so. I avoid baby showers, wedding showers, weddings, you name it…any activity that could possibly fall under the “Hen Party” heading. Too much female bonding for my taste.
I don’t know about that. I love my kids to death, but I’m definitely not obsessed with them. I don’t talk about them constantly - a few cute anecdotes suffice when I’m with friends, and they’ve asked about my kids.
I’m home with them all day, so I prefer to talk about grown-up stuff when I’m with adults. I completely agree with everything the OP said. My little ones only talk on the phone with Daddy, me or grandparents. I can’t stand talking to small children on the phone, why would I make someone else do it?
The first couple years of your child’s life - yeah, you are a bit obsessed. You have to be. But after that, it’s time to take some of your life back. I think it’s unhealthy to only define yourself as a parent and live only for your children.
matt, honey, if you really think that a bunch of women excited about the prospect of a new baby, gathered with the new mother-to-be to celebrate the coming of that baby, are not going to transfer that interest and excitement onto the live children present, well, that’s kind of naive.
now, certainly not all women are going to react this way. but at 5 months pregnant myself, i can assure you that i coo over every cute little baby i see. i’m excited about having a baby, and any cute child reminds me of all of the great stuff i’m going to get to do soon.
as to the op, a lot of that does sound pretty inconsiderate. some people are just rude, and it’s got nothing to do with having kids.
although, with the phone thing, remember that sometimes kids are going to distract their parents while on the phone. if i’m on the phone, i can’t ignore my three year old trying to use a chair to reach to pull things off the top of the bookshelf. now, i’m not going to stop and have a conversation with the kid, and if they keep interrupting to the point that i can’t hold a conversation i will get off the phone and call back later. but surely you can understand one or two short interruptions – you wouldn’t mind so much if the cat was trying to pull my dinner off the counter, or my s.o. came home and i told him hello, would you?
Well, stofsky, if Billy is eating poison, then there certainly is something more important my friend should be doing instead of talking to me, eh? Try reading my post again, maybe you’ll get it this time.
Baby Showers are most definitely about babies. Everywhere you look, it’s baby this and baby that! Pastel decorations, pictures of storks, baby clothes, and last but not least - a very pregnant woman sitting there about to embark on what many consider to be an amazing time in her life. It’s all about baby. And if an already born baby happens to be sitting there, the focus will generally shift there because you can’t help but marvel at the fact that that gurgling creature on the floor is also in that lady over there. Weird.
It is annoying when people blather on about their kids, the same as it is with people who go on about their pets or their cars or their job. But when something is very important to someone, chances are they’re going to talk about it. Endlessly. In fact, some people are so into NOT having kids that they’ll go on and on about NOT having kids. They even make up little acronyms for it and become enraged when asked why they don’t want kids. C’est la vie. You’ve either got to find new friends who hold the same interests and only ever talk about grown-up things that fascinate you or accept the blathering as part of who your friends are and try to appreciate that they are sharing an important part of their life with you.
I don’t have kids, but admit to yapping on about my cats now and again. I try to only do it with certain people who share an interest in their pets. My best friend (who also has cats) once told me I was bordering on pathetic when I sent fellow cat-owners an email about sarcomas caused by vaccinations because I thought my cat’s cancer was caused by that. To me it was very important and it was like being slapped in the face when she said that. We’re still best friends, but I don’t share as much as I once did with her and don’t fully trust her with any feelings I hold really dear any more. It really hurt that she didn’t give a rat’s ass about something that meant so much to me. She didn’t even bother to try because it was annoying to her. I guess what I’m trying to say is just be careful when you scoff at your friends and family when they let you into their lives. It may seem boring to you, but that’s who they are.
That said, I agree, I hate when someone is have periforal conversation when I’m on the phone with them and they’re the ones who called me. Totally rude.
Though the friend may be being somewhat insensitive and rude at times. Unless this person is incredibly rude all the time (so why be friends), it seems to be more a featherlou problem than the friends problem.
(I mean that in the nicest, most helpful way featherlou.)
OK, so you’re a bit more aware than many parents. Many people are able to disconnect the ‘obsessed’ part of their brain for conversations with adults, and many can’t. JFTR: I’m of the opinion that the ‘child obsession’ in most healthy parents declines in direct proportion to the helplessness of the child. Newborn? Total obsession. High school senior? Very important, but on the same level as house repairs and the current political scandal (give-or-take a bit).
Well, as I look back, maybe it was the part about “training” your “friends” that pissed me off. Or maybe it’s that getting Billy to turn off the TV is a 15 second distraction from your oh-so-important life. Yah know, Mister or Miss or Missus or Ms. Center of the Universe, sometimes stuff breaks into a conversation, and if you have kids, it does so more often than not. Either, as someone earlier said, “deal with it,” or don’t have friends with kids. Kids are more important than you are, at least to their parents, and that’s the way it ought to be.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hibbins *
** matt_mcl
And wrong again!
The objection was that…
Um…right. That would be matt’s comment about the friendships between the women involved, wouldn’t it, since last time I checked women were adults, who presumably have adult conversations. :rolleyes:
My, Hibbins, you know me very well. Strange how I don’t remember you. You must’ve been at the party also, to have such a firm understanding of how I felt, but since it was almost exclusively family, you’ll have to clue me in to your identity so I can put a face to the name.
You are the one who is wrong. Both matt_mcl and SisterCoyote had a better understanding of my post than you did. Correlation is not causation, you know.
It wasn’t my party. I’m well aware of that, but I am oh so appreciative of you pointing that out for me. I was confused there for a while. Come to think of it, not one of those gifts came home with me. Hey, maybe that’s a sign.
It was my sister’s party. My sister’s. Not our nephew’s party or her niece’s party. Hers. I know that babies are standard fare at baby showers. I even joked that if a baby shower doesn’t have any babies there, they have to rent them. But that does not mean every conversation has to revolve around those two people.
Hm. Actually, I’ve been to three separate baby showers in the last year and a half.
None of them welcomed the children of the participants.
That’s right. The only “baby” there in all three cases was the foetus in the mother. The Baby for whom the baby shower was being (ostensibly) thrown. All other children were relegated to an adult male keeper for the duration of the party.
This is not to say babies weren’t discussed - of course they were. But they weren’t the sole focus of the event, either.
I wish I could assure you that this situation will improve as the kid gets older, but it’s not necessarily so. In the 17 years of my niece’s existence, I have not had a single uninterrupted phone conversation with my sister. Whether this is some kind of Control Over Mom issue or not, my sister doesn’t have the will or interest to tell the kid to bug off while Mom is on the phone. I’ve had to take the same tack as when Call Waiting activates and I’m asked to hold - I just say I’ll call back some other time, and end the call.
The stuff that bugs you most boils down to rudeness and lack of parental responsibility. Good luck putting a dent in that sort of behavior.
AFAIAC, the caregiver of an 18 month old child should be paying attention to the child, yes even when they’re on the phone. Your position then can be either deal with the concept that you may not be 100% of the focus of your friends attention at any given point, or check back with them when the kid is older.
And, FTR, most of my friends have gone through stages at some time where something seemed to be the only thing they thought about - sometimes it was a child, some times a man, sometimes, their parents etc. Ditto for me. I’m always grateful for the folks who stayed friends.
Not all folks have safe places to leave their kids for an evening. Sometimes it’s a money thing, some times it’s a ‘I don’t know anyone who can’ thing. Again, you have choices (as do they).
Yes, it’s a drag when folks bring kids to an adult party after being told not to. Perhaps they were unclear that you’d prefer their absence to them arriving with the childen.
I’m sorry, wring, but I have to disagree with you on one point.
If an invitation was extended to the parents that indicated that the children were not invited, then the parents were rude to bring the children.
As you said, they had options. Neither of the parents could have come, if sitting wasn’t available. Or, one parent could have gone for the whole time, or (if the event was long enough) the parents could have traded off time at the event/with the kid.
But bringing an uninvited guest to a party or other event without clearing it with the host(ess) first is just rude. And I’m afraid that applies to children as well as adults.
Yup, you got that right. That’s why I’m whining here, instead of to them. Maybe CBC’s and breeders can’t be friends, but I’m still trying to make it work.
My point #9 about kids being the centre of every gathering was sparked by my SO’s last birthday, where he was virtually ignored by his family once his 18 month old nephew showed up. Now, my SO is a grown man, and this didn’t phase him too much, but even so, I don’t think Miss Manners would approve of this. I think this is the type of situation throatshot was talking about, where the guest of honour gets forgotten in favour of any children.
(For anyone who pointed out that my irritations may be more my problem than anyone else’s, my response is that you’re not completely wrong. I also say that I expect the same courtesy from people that I give to them, whether they have children or not. I don’t think having babies gives you a license to be discourteous; I guess I’m just old-fashioned that way. :))
Because you are, what?, incabable of starting a conversation? Read any good books lately? Seen any good movies? What do you think about current events? Or because the only thing anyone else was interested in talking about after you tried these conversational gambits(including your sister) was those two babies, in which case it met the definition of a hen party and you were just a fish out of water having to go through this torture for the sake of your sister.
I’ve been to both kinds of baby showers. It depends on the guest list and the mom-to-be. The hen party kind are particularly depressing for the infertile (I was at one of these and wanted to slit my wrists in the hosts bathroom) as well as boring as all get out for anyone who isn’t in the mood for “aren’t babies wonderful” for two hours straight. But, that’s what excuses are for (“gee, sorry I can’t stay to open gifts, my Aunt Helen is having her seventy fifth birthday today.”)
featherlou,
Sometimes we moms can use a night out away from our kids - but it has to be presented right - “Why don’t you dump the kids on your husband Tuesday night and we’ll go out for a drink.”
And then some women can’t leave their kids - you can catch back up with them when their kids hit the teen years (maybe) and for right now, just invite them to the kids friendly stuff to stay in touch.
Something for the CBCs (and others) to keep in mind. If you have a childless event, me (and other polite parents) won’t bring our kids (assuming we realize its a childless thing - most of us have shown up with kids in tow only to realize we will have to make excuses quickly - oops). But sometimes you won’t get us either. Babysitters are expensive and hard to find. And Grandma only has so much free babysitting available. It may come down to “do I want to use a babysitter for featherlou’s party or do I want to go to my work holiday party (which I really SHOULD go to.” There is this certain guilt trip certain people do to people with children “don’t bring your kids, oh, you can’t come, you must not like me.” No, we like you just fine, but the kids can be hard to shake.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SisterCoyote *
**I’m sorry, wring, but I have to disagree with you on one point.
If an invitation was extended to the parents that indicated that the children were not invited, then the parents were rude to bring the children.[/quote** generally speaking I agree.
OTOH (and I know the OP said “especially when you were told well in advance…”) communication is the key.
at my wedding, I wrote on the invite “Liz & Mark” for my sister and her husband. They brought my nephew (who was 2 at the time). I felt at the time that I’d specifically indicated that dear little Brian should be elsewhere. She didn’t see it that way. Shrug. It didn’t matter in the long run to me at any rate (tho I recall being annoyed at the time, in hindsite it wasn’t a big deal for him to be there). Now, the OP said she made it clear. But making it clear to her may not be the same as saying specifically “while we love little Bandersnatch, this particular party will involve serious amounts of drinking and debauchery and we feel it wouldn’t be appropriate to have him come with you. If you can’t get a sitter, we’ll miss you terribly”.
