Fuck you Blizzard, but thanks for letting us know where we're not wanted.

[Ensign_Edison]

“‘While we appreciate and understand your point of view, we do feel that the advertisement of a GLBT friendly guild is very likely to result in harassment for players that may not have existed otherwise. If you will look at our policy, you will notice the suggested penalty for violating the Sexual Orientation Harassment Policy is to be temporarily suspended from the game. However, as there was clearly no malicious intent on your part, this penalty was reduced to a warning.’”

That was sent to a player who tried to advertise a queer-friendly guild on World of Warcraft.

It is a violation of their “Sexual Orientation Harassment” policy not to harass queers, but to openly be one - or even just say you’re friendly to them!

Many people are insulted just at the word ‘homosexual’ or any other word referring to sexual orientation," Blizzard responded to Blatzheim in an e-mail. “Also to discriminate against other players, such as not allowing any heterosexuals into the guild simply because of their sexual orientation, could cause extreme offense to a large percentage of our players and should be avoided.”

The guild in question was SPECIFICALLY not restricted to gay players - though it hardly matters, since this is an outrageous non-argument. It would upset the straight kids if they couldn’t join a gay guild, so everybody has to pretend to be straight?

This is of course a game where “faggot” and “gay” are thrown around as insults at lightning speed - that does not violate this “sexual orientation harassment” policy, apparently.

The only comment from Blizzard so far that makes any kind of sense at all is “We have determined that advertising sexual orientation is not appropriate for the high fantasy setting of the World of Warcraft and is therefore not permitted”. Fine, whatever the hell that means - I see an awful lot of wizards making out with mermaids or whatever in high fantasy. But if that is the actual problem, why did it take so long before anybody said so?* Why don’t they police the enormous amount of heterosexually-themed (and homo-abusive) comments which are far, far more potentially offensive than “We’re a GLBT friendly guild”?*

It’s not that I don’t know that World of Warcraft is one of the least queer-friendly places around anyway. It’s that Blizzard has handled this with a shocking lack of intelligence, grace, decency and consistency, and with those same traits have formed an idiotic and outrageous “policy” that just ends up translating to “It’s not that we have a problem with you, it’s just that we think you should pretend you don’t exist, because the assholes throwing money at us might start throwing shit at you instead”.

Well, fuck you very much, Blizzard. Fuck you right in your eye - with a gay man’s cock. Fuck you right up your vag with a dyke’s fist. Fuck you until you fall in love, and realize you’re a second class citizen without the basic civil right to marry. Fuck you with a big giant hypodermic needle full of hormones. Fuck you with a life of frightened fucking loneliness because you’re a gay gamer and you know if your buddies on the server found out they’d never speak to you again, and maybe one of them would be waiting on your doorstep with a shotgun one day. Fuck you with the shotgun that my ex’s father pulled when my ex tried to come out. Fuck you with the baseball bats and brass knuckles and chain link fences covered in blood and brains spread out across the history of this struggle. Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you Blizzard for doing your tiny little bit to keep the great big machine of silence and death and fear and sadness grinding on and on and on and on.

I will probably avoid arguing with any of the assholes who come in here to tell me there’s no problem with what happened, because I already feel sick. But I’ll be watching, because my shit list could use some rounding out.

[Ensign_Edison]

Aaand I forgot the link. I swear it was in there before. Here you go.

[Mississippienne]

That sucks. I remember belonging to an awesome gay/lesbian linkshell (out of many I belonged to) in Final Fantasy XI, and I’m straight. However, they wouldn’t allow same-sex characters to marry, though, which is kinda bogus. Same-sex players, sure. Characters, no.

Can’t say I’m surprised, though. Blizzard has a reputation for instituting bullshit policies like this one. Remember, this was the same company that let you hack Diablo II as much as you wanted because they were too lazy to do anything about it.

Shameful.

Adam

[Agent_Foxtrot]

@Mississippienne

That sucks. I remember belonging to an awesome gay/lesbian linkshell (out of many I belonged to) in Final Fantasy XI, and I’m straight. However, they wouldn’t allow same-sex characters to marry, though, which is kinda bogus. Same-sex players, sure. Characters, no.

Can’t say I’m surprised, though. Blizzard has a reputation for instituting bullshit policies like this one. Remember, this was the same company that let you hack Diablo II as much as you wanted because they were too lazy to do anything about it.

Shameful.

Adam

Sigh. My post.

Adam

[Mordib]

i guess i’m getting added to your shit list then, since whilst they are explaining it in a stupid way what Blizzard are trying to say is that they discourage any mention of sexuality, whatever the orientation.

It is a violation of their “Sexual Orientation Harassment” policy not to harass queers, but to openly be one - or even just say you’re friendly to them!

or to say you’re straight for that matter, the point is its a blanket ban, they are removing themselves from having to make any decisions as to whether individual references to sexuality are a positive or negative thing. I don’t agree with this but I do understand why such a small organisation with such a large user base would feel the need to implement such a rule.

The guild in question was SPECIFICALLY not restricted to gay players - though it hardly matters, since this is an outrageous non-argument. It would upset the straight kids if they couldn’t join a gay guild, so everybody has to pretend to be straight?

this was the paragraph that inspired me to respond, YOU make the assumption that when no sexual preference is mentioned it automatically implies straight. battlenet is just tens of thousands of people sharing a gaming experience, their sexual preference in real life has no bearing on their ability to play and interact in the game, people arent straight or gay or bi… they are just people playing a game…
On a side note you are totally right that the users themselves produce plenty of abuse in this area which blizzard would do well to stop, stopping the advertising of such differnces certainly doesnt stop the abuse (but does limit the opportunities for the idiots to find targets), yet you have taken this small attempt to reduce the abuse as abuse in itself.

[Ensign_Edison]

@Mordib

or to say you’re straight for that matter, the point is its a blanket ban, they are removing themselves from having to make any decisions as to whether individual references to sexuality are a positive or negative thing. I don’t agree with this but I do understand why such a small organisation with such a large user base would feel the need to implement such a rule.

And my point was that they are in no way enforcing such a blanket ban.

@Mordib

this was the paragraph that inspired me to respond, YOU make the assumption that when no sexual preference is mentioned it automatically implies straight. battlenet is just tens of thousands of people sharing a gaming experience, their sexual preference in real life has no bearing on their ability to play and interact in the game, people arent straight or gay or bi… they are just people playing a game…

Really? So why are they constantly talking about girls they’d like to fuck and screaming “that’s so gay”? Why are there so many straight couples? Believe me, the straightness at WoW is not “implied by silence”, it is in your fucking face, all the time.

@Mordib

On a side note you are totally right that the users themselves produce plenty of abuse in this area which blizzard would do well to stop, stopping the advertising of such differnces certainly doesnt stop the abuse (but does limit the opportunities for the idiots to find targets), yet you have taken this small attempt to reduce the abuse as abuse in itself.

It’s not a side note. It’s enforcing one percent of one half of a very stupid and unclear policy based in ignorance and cowardice.

[Martin_Hyde]

@cthiax

Well, fuck you very much, Blizzard. Fuck you right in your eye - with a gay man’s cock. Fuck you right up your vag with a dyke’s fist. Fuck you until you fall in love, and realize you’re a second class citizen without the basic civil right to marry. Fuck you with a big giant hypodermic needle full of hormones. Fuck you with a life of frightened fucking loneliness because you’re a gay gamer and you know if your buddies on the server found out they’d never speak to you again, and maybe one of them would be waiting on your doorstep with a shotgun one day. Fuck you with the shotgun that my ex’s father pulled when my ex tried to come out. Fuck you with the baseball bats and brass knuckles and chain link fences covered in blood and brains spread out across the history of this struggle. Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you Blizzard for doing your tiny little bit to keep the great big machine of silence and death and fear and sadness grinding on and on and on and on.

I will probably avoid arguing with any of the assholes who come in here to tell me there’s no problem with what happened, because I already feel sick. But I’ll be watching, because my shit list could use some rounding out.

Did you start crying at any point when making this post? Talk about making mountains out of… hell, nothing.

I couldn’t care less what your sexual orientation is, I only start to care when you think you need to express it in a gaming situation that should be about killing shit and grabbing treasures as reward. I’ve long detested the drama-queen (I don’t mean that with a sexual connotation since I’ve never met anyone on WoW who was openly gay) type that try to make WoW into great social pageantry instead of the simple diversion that it is. When I’m playing a video game I don’t want to hear about it anymore than I want to hear some teenager talk about how he makes love to his left hand every night.

[Trunk]

@Agent Foxtrot

Sigh. My post.

Adam

You found a way to get yourself quoted.

[Ensign_Edison]

@Martin Hyde

Did you start crying at any point when making this post? Talk about making mountains out of… hell, nothing.

I couldn’t care less what your sexual orientation is, I only start to care when you think you need to express it in a gaming situation that should be about killing shit and grabbing treasures as reward. I’ve long detested the drama-queen (I don’t mean that with a sexual connotation since I’ve never met anyone on WoW who was openly gay) type that try to make WoW into great social pageantry instead of the simple diversion that it is. When I’m playing a video game I don’t want to hear about it anymore than I want to hear some teenager talk about how he makes love to his left hand every night.

Then you better avoid WoW, because they love talking about faggots!

Baby, sweetie, honey, I’m crying right now. I’m simply sobbing with delight. To myself I thought ‘Oh, let Martin Hyde tell me I’m making something out of nothing. Then I’ll KNOW I’m right!’ And you’ve answered my prayers, cutie buns. I could just kiss you with tongue!

One word and an acronym (‘LGBT friendly’) in a guild ad does not an “in your face” festival of rainbow diversity make, sugarlips.

[Martin_Hyde]

@cthiax

Then you better avoid WoW, because they love talking about faggots!

I’ve played WoW for a good while, it’s a fun diversion for me and while I don’t play as much as a lot of people I do put in a few hours every few days. I’ve seen no evidence on my server about this pervasive talk of faggots. And in my guild we don’t permit language like that over /gu due to the fact we have no idea what’s going on with our players IRL, they could be gay, of any ethnicity out there, of any political affiliation, et al, and the easiest way to actually get down to the “business” of playing the game is to make all of that crap forbidden in /gu.

Baby, sweetie, honey, I’m crying right now. I’m simply sobbing with delight. To myself I thought ‘Oh, let Martin Hyde tell me I’m making something out of nothing. Then I’ll KNOW I’m right!’ And you’ve answered my prayers, cutie buns. I could just kiss you with tongue!

One word and an acronym (‘LGBT friendly’) in a guild ad does not an “in your face” festival of rainbow diversity make, sugarlips.

Ah, I see the problem. You obviously are unable to find romance in your real life so you have to resort to WoW, and you’re mad because Blizzard is trying to keep the game representative of its “T” rating and avoid the sexualization of the game and its channels, in the process destroying your $12/month dating service. Now that you’re unable to get any in real life or through WoW, you’ve become desperate enough to come on to someone through the SDMB.

You know match.com and such get advertised on television all the time, if you want a dating service keep with them and leave WoW players alone.

[Athena]

I’m in two minds over this.

My understanding of Blizzard’s position is that they don’t want any potentially political stuff in the game. A guild advertising itself as “Republican-friendly” would also be asked to stop. I’m hip to that - it’s supposed to be a game, please leave the real world behind as much as possible.

On the other hand, as people have said said, “gay” and “faggot” really are everywhere in the game, and I don’t see Blizzard doing anything to stop that. Still, this are two different issues - I don’t think it would be right to allow the first just because they’re not actively enforcing the second.

[Martin_Hyde]

@Athena

I’m in two minds over this.

My understanding of Blizzard’s position is that they don’t want any potentially political stuff in the game. A guild advertising itself as “Republican-friendly” would also be asked to stop. I’m hip to that - it’s supposed to be a game, please leave the real world behind as much as possible.

On the other hand, as people have said said, “gay” and “faggot” really are everywhere in the game, and I don’t see Blizzard doing anything to stop that. Still, this are two different issues - I don’t think it would be right to allow the first just because they’re not actively enforcing the second.

Blizzard, believe it or not, doesn’t actually have the ability to monitor all chat channels at all times. But if someone actually uses abusive terms like faggot in general chat you can report that behavior and something can be done about it. Blizz has the ability to look up past chat logs to see what is said, they just don’t monitor all chat logs at all times as that would be prohibitively difficult.

IF you read the article linked it appears Blizzard is trying to avoid contentious issues like this, and their policy specifically speaks against sexual orientation being advertised either way. While some degree of sexuality may be frequently present in WoW’s chat channels, there aren’t guilds advertising themselves as “Hot Sex for All Guild” or “Pro-Hetero Alliance” and any guilds created with a name of that nature would almost definitely be quashed.

People have to deal with political bullshit issues every day in the real world, games like WoW are supposed to be escapism.

[Dead_Badger]

@Mordib

On a side note you are totally right that the users themselves produce plenty of abuse in this area which blizzard would do well to stop, stopping the advertising of such differnces certainly doesnt stop the abuse (but does limit the opportunities for the idiots to find targets), yet you have taken this small attempt to reduce the abuse as abuse in itself.

But by all accounts (I’m not a player), pretty much the only step Blizzard takes to reduce anti-gay abuse is … to not let gay people openly group together. Do you really not see a problem with this? And further, the guild seems to have been advertised as merely GLBT-friendly, not GLBT-only. They were trying to create an abuse-free environment (not a shiny happy let’s-all-be-gay-to-annoy-Martin-Hyde club), and have been forbidden to do so.

@Martin Hyde

When I’m playing a video game I don’t want to hear about it anymore than I want to hear some teenager talk about how he makes love to his left hand every night.

Who the hell said you’d have to hear about it? Some people just wanted to play together. Why the fuck should you care? I’m sure you’d be allowed to start a guild for jackasses if you felt like it.

@Athena

Still, this are two different issues - I don’t think it would be right to allow the first just because they’re not actively enforcing the second.

I disagree - if they’re not going to make any effort to actually stop the dickheads who dish out anti-gay abuse, they should at the very least let players group together to create a pleasant gaming environment for themselves.

[Ensign_Edison]

@Martin Hyde

I’ve played WoW for a good while, it’s a fun diversion for me and while I don’t play as much as a lot of people I do put in a few hours every few days. I’ve seen no evidence on my server about this pervasive talk of faggots. And in my guild we don’t permit language like that over /gu due to the fact we have no idea what’s going on with our players IRL, they could be gay, of any ethnicity out there, of any political affiliation, et al, and the easiest way to actually get down to the “business” of playing the game is to make all of that crap forbidden in /gu.

Then your experience is quite different from what I have witnessed, in the time I played WoW last year, and what the hardcore, longterm players I know have witnessed, and what reason and experience suggests would likely be the case besides. Teenage boys say ‘fag’ like it’s a magical invocation that will bring them lots of pussy and beer.

@Martin Hyde

Ah, I see the problem. You obviously are unable to find romance in your real life so you have to resort to WoW, and you’re mad because Blizzard is trying to keep the game representative of its “T” rating and avoid the sexualization of the game and its channels, in the process destroying your $12/month dating service. Now that you’re unable to get any in real life or through WoW, you’ve become desperate enough to come on to someone through the SDMB.

You know match.com and such get advertised on television all the time, if you want a dating service keep with them and leave WoW players alone.

Oh, Martin, Martin, your words are sweet whispers in my ear. Are you lonely, my sweet? Will you come curl up in front of the fire with me, so we can read poetry to each other and neck? It’s true - I’m pining for you! And if WoW reversed this decision, I’d start playing again just so I could spam the forums day and night with proclamations of my undying, passionate love for you!

[Ensign_Edison]

@Athena

On the other hand, as people have said said, “gay” and “faggot” really are everywhere in the game, and I don’t see Blizzard doing anything to stop that. Still, this are two different issues - I don’t think it would be right to allow the first just because they’re not actively enforcing the second.

Are you suggesting that it’s okay for their rule to be “You can call somebody a fag but you can’t say you ARE a fag”?

[Ensign_Edison]

@Martin Hyde

While some degree of sexuality may be frequently present in WoW’s chat channels, there aren’t guilds advertising themselves as “Hot Sex for All Guild” or “Pro-Hetero Alliance” and any guilds created with a name of that nature would almost definitely be quashed.

People have to deal with political bullshit issues every day in the real world, games like WoW are supposed to be escapism.

I’m just going to repeat this once more, because you enchant me so, honeybutt:

One word and an acronym (‘LGBT friendly’) in a guild ad does not an “in your face” festival of rainbow diversity make, sugarlips.

[Scoundrel_Swanswater]

@cthiax

The guild in question was SPECIFICALLY not restricted to gay players - though it hardly matters, since this is an outrageous non-argument. It would upset the straight kids if they couldn’t join a gay guild, so everybody has to pretend to be straight?

Well, I disagree.
It’s not like you have to pretend to be straight.
You just need to keep your sexual identity out of this on-line game.
Now I do think it is incredibly idiotic that they almost ban somebody for this, while somebody yelling “faggot!!” doesn’t even get a warning.

[DarkPrince]

@Martin Hyde

Ah, I see the problem. You obviously are unable to find romance in your real life so you have to resort to WoW, and you’re mad because Blizzard is trying to keep the game representative of its “T” rating and avoid the sexualization of the game and its channels, in the process destroying your $12/month dating service. Now that you’re unable to get any in real life or through WoW, you’ve become desperate enough to come on to someone through the SDMB.

Ok… on the list of Places Online To Find teh Sex, WoW ranks near the bottom in the Beastforum/Hello Kitty Online area. A good 75% of the people I meet in WoW worry me enough I won’t even group with them, much less try to hook up.

[Martin_Hyde]

@Dead Badger

But by all accounts (I’m not a player), pretty much the only step Blizzard takes to reduce anti-gay abuse is … to not let gay people openly group together. Do you really not see a problem with this? And further, the guild seems to have been advertised as merely GLBT-friendly, not GLBT-only. They were trying to create an abuse-free environment (not a shiny happy let’s-all-be-gay-to-annoy-Martin-Hyde club), and have been forbidden to do so.

Uh, blizzard doesn’t care who you’re grouping with, and don’t regulate that at all. They’re only problem is with how a given guild is behaving in a public channel by talking about sexual matters that Blizzard deems inappropriate in its world.

The world of Azeroth isn’t Earth, there isn’t an ACLU or a United Nations. Blizzard = God, they can shape the world however they want and impose what regulations and standards they see fit. In this instance their regulations are right, because sexuality isn’t proper in the gaming world they’ve created.

Who the hell said you’d have to hear about it? Some people just wanted to play together. Why the fuck should you care? I’m sure you’d be allowed to start a guild for jackasses if you felt like it.

The only reason Blizzard sent the guild leader of the guild in question an email is because she was advertising her guild on public channels. You can do whatever you want within the privacy of your own guild’s /gu and in your own group’s party chat, but Blizzard doesn’t want certain content on the public channels. If given types of content are forbidden by Blizzard policy, they have to prohibit given content from the public channels which everyone uses.

I disagree - if they’re not going to make any effort to actually stop the dickheads who dish out anti-gay abuse, they should at the very least let players group together to create a pleasant gaming environment for themselves.

And they do, you can group with whoever you want.

If you want to group with a bunch of Republicans, Democrats, Dominatrixes, Sheep-fuckers, Fascists, Communists, Libertarians, etc you can, but Blizzard doesn’t want content like the above being on their public channels, and doesn’t want guild’s advertising themselves in that manner.

[Ensign_Edison]

@Scoundrel Swanswater

You just need to keep your sexual identity out of this on-line game.

Will they ban talking about one’s wife and kids? Will they act on guys saying a chick is hot, they’d really like to do her? The point is that the ‘sexual identity’ is all over the place at WoW, and some people would like to be able to use one word and an acronym to indicate places where they don’t have to worry about constant ugly ‘fag’ talk and feeling isolated and out of place.