Ben, I’m in agreement with you too. Especially where you said that (paraphrasing), “some Evangelicals can dish it out, but can’t take it.”
Oh yeah.
Hugely.
Some Evangelicals are so sure that they have a direct pipeline to God that anyone who dares criticize anything about their precious ministries is obviously an agent of Satan, and therefore, completely without consequence.
I am an atheist. However, I have nothing but admiration for those missionaries who go in to places and freely offer food, medicine, and educational help to people, and when asked about it, offer spiritual guidance as well. I think these people show a fundamental respect for others that the more vocal missionaries just don’t get. “Do unto others,” y’know.
Sadly, I think too many missionaries think the terms “humanist” and “secular” are irrevocably intertwined. As an atheist, I can “witness” that they aren’t. I know many fine, loving, practical, and spiritual religious folks who don’t see any necessity for preaching while performing works of mercy. The work speaks for itself. I, like many others I suspect, think these people are fine human beings and don’t care about their religious beliefs. It simply isn’t an issue. Those I’ve asked say they do it for “the glory of God,” but they are so circumspect unless directly asked that I cannot help but admire their class.
The religious blowhards that go into areas where they are not openly welcomed and yap about their “faith” to the detriment of other charitable people and, especially, the people they are trying to “save,” I have nothing but contempt for. Whatever their intentions, they are harming people through their incompetence and arrogance.
If I might point out another arena in which fundamentalist Christians (and His4Ever in particular) can dish it out but are completely unwilling to take it:
His4Ever is a big fan of Jack Chick. She buys his tracts and distributed them. But, when I direct her to one of my own tracts, she doesn’t even acknowledge the offer. When I ask her later if she’s read it, she can’t even be bothered to give me a yes or no.
Because this thread isn’t about His or homosexuality, or whatever-it’s about people who go to foreign countries to witness or evangelize, and by doing so put themselves and others in danger.
The calling other religions “demonic” thing was part of the OP. The dickbags in the OP were saying that Muslims were under the influence of Satan so I think it’s only fair to point out that Christianity at it’s most extreme and intolerant (as it is articulated by Jack Chick and His4Ever, for instance) is indistinguishable from the worship of a demon. H4E’s deity is not the “God of the Bible” as she claims (at least not as God is revealed through Christ) but a twisted, perverted, hallucinatory parody of that God. The attempts by fanatical bigots to go and inflict their demon worship on a peaceful and deeply spiritual people in a region which has already suffered much trauma is immoral and indefensible and anyone who supports such a mission is deserving of scorn and ridicule.
For fuck’s sake, the name of the guy’s website is godhatesfags. That’s not bigotry? What would you consider to be a bigoted statement about gay people?
I’m still looking for one source–anything–which proves Tim McVeigh was a Christian. Christian Identity (the racist bigots) doesn’t count. I’m using Christian in a religious sense.
It’s one of those oft-repeated factoids (like, "Saddam threw the inspectors out of Iraq) that simply has no basis in fact that I’m aware of. (The inspectors left in 1998 because the Iraqs weren’t cooperating and they were being threatened)
What is bigotry? To me the word is so loaded and so strongly implies a lack of hope for redemption that I’d prefer it not be used at all. The word in itself disgusts me.
That does not mean that I would not strongly denounce Phelps’ statements and actions, but I would also prefer that he reform, and learn to act lovingly towards all.
Phelps has a picture of Matthew Sheppard on his website which gloatingly counts how many days he’s been in Hell. Where’s the hope for redemption there? That’s bigotry, pure and simple. I don’t understand where you’re coming from at all. Who wouild you call a bigot? Do you think there’s a difference between racial bigotry and homophobic bigotry? Ther isn’t.
The hope for redemption is there solely in the fact that I hope that nobody’s beyond redemption, not even Fred Phelps.
There is nobody that I would call a bigot, lest I fear that I am stating categorically that they have no chance for redemption. Perhaps we could say that they are expressing prejudiced ideas?
I don’t see where the possibility of redemption is excluded by these definitions. These definitions, as written, square solidly with the likes of Fred Phelps. Perhaps you have a different definiton?
That is a self-refuting argument, Binarydrone. There are people who find the statement that you just made to be ludicruous. By your own logic then, you should now be critically examining that very same statement.
Care to expand on that a bit? How is that a self-refuting argument? I realize that my particular belief system is one that not all folks share, and take great pains to examine, refine and modify it as needed. Can we say the same about the folks that feel that it is necessary to impose their beliefs on others?
By my own logic, what I do is attempt to make my way through life without making things more difficult for others. Unless asked, I keep my hard won truths to myself. I have said it before, and I will say it again. We have all heard enough about Jesus, and it would do the entire planet a lot of good if people would go ahead and shut up about him already.
No, it wouldn’t do this planet a lot of good if people shut up about Jesus since He said He was the only way to the Father. Just as you and many others aren’t going to shut up about a lot of things Christians may be weary of hearing, Christians aren’t going to shut up about Jesus. Those who know, love, and believe in Him and the Great Commission can’t do that.
And because they are incapable of just “sharing” the message and moving on, they drive millions away from their message. Of course, they do not get their instructions to be persistant to the point of being obnoxious from the Bible. They get it from the pulpet-they first of many deviations from scripture that is indoctrinated into them.
I suppose you do have a point about sharing to the point of being obnoxious. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to agree on when that point has been reached. Christians, in their zeal that others may come to know Jesus as Savior, can be persistent.
But in a message board setting, if the subject being talked about concerns Christ, Christianity, evangelism, etc., then shouldn’t you kind of expect people to be talking about what their beliefs about it are? Do you just want the Christians here to shut up and move on, or does that include the atheists, wiccans, agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Mormons, etc.? Might not be a lot of people left if you want everyone to move on after sharing their message. Also, you do have a forum here for witnessing. There are many people on this board who are just as dogmatic and persistent in their views and beliefs as the Christians are. Do you wish them to shut up and move on or is it only the Christians that you want to shut up? Just curious.
I’m aware of that, samarm and am attempting not to be quite so zealous, yet at the same time share what I believe to be true when these subjects come up. I’m also aware there are people who don’t believe that God or Jesus exists at all. And the fact that they don’t believe in Him, doesn’t make Him not exist either. That works both ways. We all share our views, whether they agree or not.
Okay, **Guin[/]b, I’ll leave that open for opinion. Don’t really wish to debate that right now. You’re right, tho, about those who say they aren’t interested after hearing your message. In a different setting than this, if someone says, I’m not interested, then you move on just as Jesus told His disciples to shake the dust from their feet and move on from the cities that rejected them. The message board setting isn’t quite the same thing. There’s an unending variety of views to be shared here.
Speaking for myself, I want the zealots, whether they be religious or political, to turn it down a few notches. Not necessarily shut up, but, damn! sometimes it gets a little thick, y’know?