snermy, because you don’t have some of the backstory here, you’re misunderstanding where **Siegeb/] is coming from and what His and Jersey will do in processing her plea. She (and I) are sincere Episcopalian Christians, who believe in the same God as the two ladies, the Holy Trinity of Christianity, complete with the Atonement of Christ and the sanctifying presence of the Holy Spirit. We differ on what are sometimes called “peripheral” doctrines – such as the proper methodology for reading and interpreting the Bible and applying its teachings in our lives, the proper attitude to take towards what we might see as sins in others, etc. And this view – of agreement in essentials and disagreement in secondary points – is, AFAIK, something on which all four of us agree. So Siege could attempt, with reasonable expectations that His and Jersey would take it in the spirit intended, to give counsel to fellow Christians regarding the relative effectiveness of ways of carrying out the God-given commission on which we’re jointly agreed. (And I’ll ask for posts giving verification of that understanding from all three ladies.)
His and Jersey will continue to do what they feel morally obliged to do – which is, from their perspective, to continue in brotherly love to warn people of the danger they face from a wrathful yet loving God of continuing to engage in what the two of them consider as deadly sin instead of repenting of said sin and accepting His ready forgiveness – even when their loving warnings are met by accusations of hate-filled bigotry.
Because my take (and I think Siege’s) on the nature of God and His intent towards humanity is significantly different – and we see the stuff they conceive of God as pissed off about as “sin” only in the restricted sense that it and not God is the summum bonum of the lives of some, our approach is vastly different from theirs. Rather, we see the idea of attempting to codify human behavior and demand adherence to that code based on one’s reading of the Bible, and sitting in judgment over those who violate that code, as something God is much more upset about than the putative sins of giving in to the impulses of human nature – and we point to the repeated condemnations of the Pharisees by Jesus as something that should give our brother and sister Christians a clue about how God feels.
BTW, another interesting facet to Zoe’s questions would be, supposing that you believe a given statement from her list, which of them could someone not believe and still be considered a decent Christian?
My understanding is that one must do as you’ve said, accept Jesus as Savior, believing He shed His blood for your sins and rose the third day. It’s a personal relationship, a trust in His sacrifice on your behalf, not just a mental exercise. You mention the Mormons doing this, but is it the same Jesus? They believe different things about Him. See here. Is the Jesus they believe in the true Jesus as taught in the scripture? Were Jesus and Satan spiritual brothers as taught in Mormon literature? Before getting hot and bothered, check this link and the link in my earlier post that compare historical Christian teaching with Mormon doctrine with the quotes as to where in the Mormon literature it’s found. Are these theological irrelevancies to you?
Also, I get the impression from many I talk to that once a person does accept Christ, it doesn’t matter how they live or what they do. That’s not right, because knowing Christ changed and changes people. They don’t remain in adultery, homosexuality, theivery, murder, etc.
Please see 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, especially the sentence "such were some of you.
Also, those who have accepted Him most generally do and should believe the Bible is His word, but yet I find myself constantly debating with other Christians as to what it says. No I don’t want to get into a debate on interpretations. The person who said this whole thing is going nowhere is right. We can debate it till we’re blue in the face, but is anyone going to change their mind? I try to share what I believe nicely, and it’s still ridiculed because it’s not what people want to hear. I’ve been told that no matter how much you polish a t–d it’s still a turd. So some people consider truth from the scriptures to be t–ds. Par for the course. Of course, they’re going to say “no, it’s just your interpretaton of the truth we don’t like.” Well, I happen to think there are some issues that are defined pretty clearly in the Bible and those who don’t see it, don’t want to see it because it exposes something they’re doing wrong and they don’t want to deal with it. We can all do that in one form or another or at one time or another. Just my opinion.
P.S. I don’t think I’ve ever said that individual Mormons couldn’t be true Christians. But why would they want to remain in a religious organization whose founders have taught and believed things contrary to scripture is what I don’t understand.
Let’s try it this way, His4Ever: Explain to me, an “ignorant cultist,” exactly what the Momron doctrine of the relationship between Jesus and Satan is. Provide citations from all relevant scriptures, to include those works the “cult” concerned considers to be scripture. Also provide an analysis of your citations.
I’d like to ask one more time, to the established posters here on the Dope, why don’t you just not respond to that kind of vitriol? If there is no forum for them to play in and repeatedly spout their rhetoric, they stop.
Remember, it’s no fun to to espouse serious denials if no one is engaging you in debate.
Because we’re here to fight ignorance, and ignoring it implies agreement.
The link you posted, His, was a PDF, and not everyone likes to open them (they freeze my computer).
sigh
And use a source that comes from a PRO-Mormon site. Because if it IS a teaching of the Mormon church, they’d admit it.
Same with using Jack Chick for Catholicism. Because what he says is WRONG. You have official Catholic and Mormon sites telling you otherwise, but you seem to think there’s some conspiracy.
Of course, this is the woman who took an Onion article seriously.
The link you provided above is not a source of the doctrine you purport we hold, His4Ever. Try also to remember that the folks who run this site take an extremely dim view of folks passing off others’ work as their own. As far as I know (and I’d likely know), Hunter isn’t one of the books in the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants, or the Pearl of Great Price. Just a bit of an aside here: What are the names of all the books in the Book of Mormon? In which order do they appear? What’s main theme in each of those books?
And, yes, you are a liar if you tell a lie. If you continue to post that “Mormons aren’t Christians believe Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers” and/or “Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are blood brothers” and/or “Mormons hold Satan in the same esteem they hold Jesus,” you are propogating a lie. Some folks here think that you don’t do that intentionally because they recoginize it’s from ignorance. I also recognize your ignorance; however, I step up and call you liar because you have had more than enough opportunity to allay that ignorance. Your ignorance is self-inflicted and intentional. The way you go about spreading your version of the Gospel is, and many folks have told you this, detrimental, especially when your methodology includes bearing false witness. Instead of trying to destroy another group with falsehoods and halftruths, teach what’s so good about yours.
Stop calling me a liar. I’m giving you quotes from Mormon documents and books written by Mormons. Isn’t Journal of Discourses Mormon literature? The Mormon church doesn’t believe their own documents? Why would I go to a pro-Mormon site when I believe it’s a cult? It’s not enough for you to give quoatations from their own founders and Mormon leaders and quotes from Mormon literature? Come on.
Mormonism- Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints- “…That Lucifer, the son of the morning, is our elder brother and the brother of Jesus Christ.” (Apostle B. McConkie Mormon doctrine p.163-164) “…Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven,” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, pp. 50-51). Jesus got married at Cana and had many wives Martha, Mary and others he also had many children,” (J & D vol.1 345-346 vol.2 79-82 vol.4:259-260 the seer p.172)
You are not giving me quotes that display the actual doctrine, which is what I asked.
You are parrotting what someone else has told you that you ought to believe.
WTF does the marriage in Cana have to do with the question I freaking asked you?
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THINK THINK THINK THINK THINK THINK THINK FOR YOURSELF FOR ONCE!
Until now, I thought your cowardice merely extended to that which you don’t understand. Now I know that you are afraid to use the very mind that the Creator gave you. That’s so close to Blasphemy it’s not even funny.
Whatever you guys say, as usual. I’m done for the moment. Have other things to do. I’m not nor doubt I will ever be convinced that Mormonism is true Christianity. Sorry.