Fuck you, Christian Evangelists!

[Brutus]

*Originally posted by BrightNShiny *
**I’m confused…

I’m supposed to blame war protestors for the deaths of American soldiers and for the deaths of the Iraqis who were murdered by Saddam.

But I’m not supposed to blame evangelicals who go into a war zone, where there is already tons of religious tension, and try to convert people knowing full well it will cause a reaction, thereby putting both our soldiers’ and the converts’ lives in danger? **

Yes, you are confused. Where did you pull ‘war protestors’ from?

[rjung]

As I said before in my OP: not all Christians are like this, and not all Evangelicals are like this. There are plenty of Christian evangelicals in the Middle East who are low-key, kind, courteous, charitable, respect the local laws against witnessing, treat others’ faiths with the same respect as they give their own, and don’t feel the need to stick a pamphlet in your hand when they’re giving you aid.

Those aren’t the folks I’m pissed off against.

[BrightNShiny]

Yes, you are confused. Where did you pull ‘war protestors’ from?

I pulled it from every thread on this board during the lead up to the war. I realize that my original post seemed to imply that you personally had held this position, and that was not my intent. I was just making a generalized comment about the hypocrisy of this administration.

From the article:

For “Robert,” the days of waiting appeared to be over. For months the globetrotting evangelist had kept a low profile, waiting for his latest chosen mission field, Iraq, to open up. He had lived quietly in a nearby capital, referring to Iraq by a code name. But after Baghdad’s liberation, Robert was ready to roll. He planned to enter Iraq with a secular humanitarian team—a kind of traveling tentmaker—but assumed that his workers could come in later on their own, printing up Arabic-language tracts in anticipation. Not all missionaries supported the Iraq war, but Robert identified personally with George W. Bush. “Something you must understand,” Robert e-mailed, “is that diplomacy does not work with Satan.” He realizes that interjecting an uncompromising gospel at so sensitive a time and place may provoke hostility. But he sees that as an inevitable consequence.

This administration gleefully demonized war protestors, but has yet to say a peep about these evangelicals who admit that they purposely want to stir up trouble in a war zone.

[Miller]

I don’t see anything in rjung’s post that could be described as “blaming the victim.” The nearest I can see would be this paragraph:

Originally posted by rjung
It turns out that oftentimes these “outspoken” eangelicals end up screwing things up for all local Christian aid-workers. “Missionaries also face charges of neglectful carelessness regarding reprisals they sometimes bring down on pre-existing Christian churches and nonevangelistic aid groups. Says Lamin Sanneh, a Muslim convert to Catholicism who teaches the history of world Christianity at Yale: ‘They come in, don’t report to the local churches, stir up a hornet’s nest and then quit town when the going gets tough. Why start a controversy if you’re not there to face the brunt of it?’”

The thing here is, rjung isn’t blaming the victim, because the victim isn’t the evangelicals, its the legitimate aid workers and native Christians. It’s like that old Far Side cartoon, where a guy is coming out his apartment building into a rough neighborhood, with all sorts of shady characters lurking in alleyways, and his wife shouts out the window, “Wait! I got it wrong! Put the thousand dollars in travellers checks into the savings account, and put the five hundred cash into the checking account!” rjung isn’t blaming the victim, he’s blaming the people who, by their idiotic and irresponsible actions, have created or exacerbated a situation that puts the victim in harm’s way.

[gobear]

*Originally posted by rjung *
**As I said before in my OP: not all Christians are like this, and not all Evangelicals are like this. There are plenty of Christian evangelicals in the Middle East who are low-key, kind, courteous, charitable, respect the local laws against witnessing, treat others’ faiths with the same respect as they give their own, and don’t feel the need to stick a pamphlet in your hand when they’re giving you aid.
**

And those folks also deplore the know-nothing missionaries. See the section of the article that deals with the two Americans in Kabul whose ignorant proselytizing got all Chrisitan aid organizations closed down.

Such sentiments are noble enough. But the women’s acts were unpopular with a spectrum of Kabul aid groups running from secular workers to fellow Evangelicals. “They broke every rule in the book,” says Seiple, the former State Department religious-freedom ambassador. “They were women in a patriarchal society, didn’t know the language (well), didn’t know the culture and were counseled against doing this by other Christians.” Says “Kay,” a 13-year veteran of evangelical missions in another Muslim capital who reports that the incident eventually hampered her own work: “I’m sorry that they suffered, but they just didn’t think. They did not project their idealism to its farthest conclusion.”

And it seem appropriate to include a passage from The Moonstone, in which Miss Clack, the annoyingly self-righteous evangelical, seeks to justify her behavior:

Once self-supported by conscience, once embarked on a career of manifest usefulness, the true Christian never yields. Neither public nor private influences produce the slightest effect on us, when we have once got our mission. Taxation may be the consequence of a mission; riots may be the consequence of a mission; wars may be the consequence of a mission: we go on with our work, irrespective of every human consideration which moves the world outside us. We are above reason; we are beyond ridicule; we see with nobody’s eyes, we hear with nobody’s ears, we feel with nobody’s hearts, but our own. Glorious, glorious privilege! And how is it earned? Ah, my friends, you may spare yourselves the useless inquiry! We are the only people who can earn it–for we are the only people who are always right.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

If these people want to lie their way into another country with the sole intent of pissing all over that country’s faith and culture then they deserve whatever the fuck they get. Nobody invited those shitheads in to spew their puke in the first place. If they don’t want violent reactions (which are grossly exaggerated, btw. Islamic countries don’t mind the presence of Christians they just won’t tolerate them harrassing Muslims) then they need to stay the fuck out of those countries and keep their backwards fucking fairy tale to themeselves.

What the fuck is it about a certain segment of Christians that they just can’t get it through their fucking skulls that nobody wants to hear their mush-brained fucking bullshit?

If a bunch of fucking skinheads went into a black neighborhood talking about “white power” and they ended up getting their asses kicked should we feel sorry for them? Would they be “victims?”

There is no difference between the attitudes expressed by these ass-hair evangelists and those of the KKK.

[Skammer]

blink
I agree with gobear. Cool, whaddya know?

There are some missionaries who don’t do it right, who don’t respect the people they are there to serve, and who end up alienating muslims further from Christ (and making the work of other Christians that much more difficult and dangerous).

But it seemed to me that the OP was lumping them all together. Ashcroft’s comments were offensive to Muslims. But I don’t see how getting up at 4 am and praying for them falls in the same category.

[Miller]

There is no difference between the attitudes expressed by these ass-hair evangelists and those of the KKK.

Well, there is one: most white-power groups are at least honest enough to admit that their philosophy is based on hatred.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

*Originally posted by Skammer *
**blink
I agree with gobear. Cool, whaddya know?

There are some missionaries who don’t do it right, who don’t respect the people they are there to serve, and who end up alienating muslims further from Christ (and making the work of other Christians that much more difficult and dangerous).

But it seemed to me that the OP was lumping them all together. Ashcroft’s comments were offensive to Muslims. But I don’t see how getting up at 4 am and praying for them falls in the same category. **

He wasn’t praying for them, he was praying against their faith. If you can’t see how vile that is then I don’t know what to tell you.

BTW, what the fuck is so goddamned terrible if Muslims din’t become Christians? Is your god really such a giant fucking asshole that anyone who can’t pick out which particular mythology out of thousands is the “true” one is going to be tortured forever in his own private, sicko dungeon. That god can suck my dick, dude. If I see him after I die I’m gonna kick him in the nuts.

[BrightNShiny]

If I see him after I die I’m gonna kick him in the nuts.

Well, if he is God, he’s probably gonna have the foresight to wear a steel cup or something.

[vanilla]

*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic *
** That god can suck my dick, dude. If I see him after I die I’m gonna kick him in the nuts. **

Somehow i doubt you’ll be so bold when you see Him face to face.
dude.

[Skammer]

"The muezzin’s first call to prayer rings out at 4 a.m. And pray Josh does. ‘I pray for the people responding,’ he says. ‘I pray that as they go to mosque, Jesus would somehow be revealed to them. I pray against that call—that it would not affect their souls.’

I can only go from this quote, but to me it sure sounds like he’s praying for them. We should all be so vile.

[lezlers]

Skammer,

Just think about this okay? How would you feel if, like what was mentioned in a previous post, our country was in a state of immense religious tension and turmoil, and a bunch of troops came here to try to convince you that your faith is wrong and that you need to convert or burn in hell.

How would you feel about evangelists then?

It’s great that you’ve got such strong faith in your religion. I’ve got a strong faith in mine. Difference is, I’m not arrogant enough to feel that mine is the only true religion and that I need to convince you that yours is wrong by using fear and intimidation (you’re going to hell if you don’t accept Jesus is the very definition of fear and intimidation).

Live and let live has a lovely ring to it.

[Zoe]

Diogenes, God’s a girl.:dubious:

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

*Originally posted by Zoe *
**Diogenes, God’s a girl.:dubious: **

The REAL God, yes, but I was talking about the fundie God.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

*Originally posted by Skammer *
**I can only go from this quote, but to me it sure sounds like he’s praying for them. We should all be so vile. **

"The muezzin’s first call to prayer rings out at 4 a.m. And pray Josh does. ‘I pray for the people responding,’ he says. ‘I pray that as they go to mosque, Jesus would somehow be revealed to them. I pray against that call—that it would not affect their souls.’

He’s praying against their sacred call to prayer. Vile…fucking vile…

[Binarydrone]

*Originally posted by vanilla *
**Somehow i doubt you’ll be so bold when you see Him face to face.
dude. **

Haw Haw Haw! :rolleyes:

[PatriotX]

Originally posted by Diogenes That god can suck my dick, dude.

*Originally posted by Zoe *
**Diogenes, God’s a girl.:dubious: **

Mmmm…Blow job from God

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

*Originally posted by vanilla *
**Somehow i doubt you’ll be so bold when you see Him face to face.
dude. **

I don’t expect to see THAT God, vanilla. If I see God at all i expect him to be much different than the small minded egoist portrayed by some.

[Apos]

but to me it sure sounds like he’s praying for them. We should all be so vile.

Hopefully not. I mean, what’s worse than thinking that your position is so just that you deserve call upon the supposed ruler of the entire universe enforce your will on others?

Trying to save people from “wrong beliefs” because that’s the absolute worst crime imaginable against a being that you inexplicably worship for such a moral travesty is one of the most vicious, Orwellian crimes against the word “love” ever imagined.