Would she be able to keep power over her men and dragons if she married? There were plenty of real-world queens - Elizabeth I, for one - who were very leery of marriage over this sort of issue.
It’s been a while since that particular scene, but I’d reckon Ned beheaded the kid less for cowardice and more for breaking his oath to the Watch. In archaic, tribal, proto-feudal societies (e.g. the Franks, the Vikings, Celtic tribes etc…) murder, rape and theft were certainly eyebrow raising (unless sanctioned by bloodfeud and the like, or done to someone outside the tribe), but the three major taboo offenses were fucking a peer’s wife, failing at hospitality, and oathbreaking. People who committed any of these were pretty much treated and considered the way we treat & consider pedophiles these days.
It’s mildly interesting to note that in a way, these values are very much reflected in today’s gang culture, where conning a friend you’ve known since pre-school is just bidness, but going back on your word is a surefire ticket to getting pissed on by every kid on the block.
But anyway, to get back to Ned, yeah he’s not really a Good Guy as judged by our morals, but he was bound by the Rules of his universe as a man who believes that everyone knows them, and every last one of them must be enforced at all times else it’s just Chaos. In our world he’d probably be a strict constitutionalist, not because he believes the Constitution sets up the best system of government or because adhering to the letter of the law will bring a better society about, but because there are rules written down and you gotta follow them, period. In 1930s Germany he’d have made sure the trains ran on time, not out of fear of the Nazis or hatred of the Jews, but because timetables are made to be followed and trains are made to be on time.
Ned did not believe his story or execute him for cowardice. He executed him for breaking as oath. Net also thought he was insane. Literally everyone south of the wall would view him as an insane escaped convict.
I first read this as: “Joffrey is an idiot with a minor in sociopath.” Good to see the boy’s getting a higher education, but I think he’d be better off with a more marketable major. 
I don’t buy this reading of Ned. He doesn’t just make the trains on time or conduct executions because that’s what the rules say. He actually believes in the rules as moral principals and personal values. Keeping one’s word is a moral virtue in and of itself, not just because it’s a rule that soemone else says you should enforce. Oathbreakers must be killed. Period. Not just because it’s a rule, but because oathbreaking is an evil and it must be punished. And the punishment is a deterrent to other oathbreakers.
Just labeling it as oathbreaking isn’t getting the whole picture either. Most of the people at the Wall were given a choice of joining the Night’s Watch or an even more severe punishment. These are all criminals (with a couple minor exceptions) that are serving time. The only effective way to keep them there is to have an extremely severe punishment for desertion. I suppose they could do away with the Night’s Watch altogether and just chop of hands and cocks for criminals, but I think most of the kingdom sees some utility in having it there even if they don’t believe in White Walkers.
I disagree. Remember Ned explaining to Bran why he did the beheading himself? He doesn’t just follow the rules, he weighs them morally and intellectually, and chooses whether the old or the new are best to follow. He may even choose a new way if neither served his conscience, although I don’t think we’ve seen evidence of that.
I don’t really buy that. Consider how he became the Hand: not because he thought he’d be a good one and change stuff for the better, because he’s too humble for that. Not because of personal or family gain, because fuck that. Not because Bob Baratheon is his brosef, because he’s certainly got no issues telling him to go fuck himself. Not out of personal enjoyment, that’s for sure - he’s leaving his family and wife behind, and he clearly doesn’t like getting away from Winterfell. Not out of fear of reprisals, because Robert certainly wasn’t going to take his head over that much.
But the King asks it, and you do what the King tells you, period.
And I mean, you see Ned doing things that he *knows *can’t come out good for anyone, but are expected of him, so he does them. Things like telling Arya to just stick with the program, or leaving Robb in charge of the North. Or marrying off Sansa to Epic Fuckwad.
There’s his outlawing flayings, I suppose.
Ned took the job to find out who killed Jon Arryn and to protect Robert, not “because you do what the king tells you”.
There is nothing wrong with leaving Robb in charge of the north, hell even Bran was doing a decent job. Ned certainly didn’t know Joffrey was a sociopath, at the time Robert came to Winterfell they hadn’t even seen each other in around 7 years. I’m not sure what you mean about Arya.
I agree with this assessment of Ned. He is about as close to a pure, unalloyed Good Guy in the GoT universe as you are gonna find. I just don’t think he’s a good guy by my personal moral standards – I understand that the rules are different for GoT people, and that many of the people in GoT are not good guys by THEIR standards. Littlefinger is a good example, a fellow who lies and misdirects when he feels it is to his advantage and can get away with it, a dodgy fellow though I don’t know if he’s an oathbreaker, I know Ned’s hand must have been itching for a beheading stroke when he dealt with Littlefinger.
Hell Jaime Lannister casually murders a boy to keep his tryst with his sister secret, and with only mild regret. You know, the fellow whom his father described to Tyrion as “covered in glory.”
I think all you are going to get in GoT is shades of gray. Hell, I thought Ned was a good guy in the story, but I was kinda glad to see him beheaded, because he offended my modern sensibilities.
Good episode. I agree about Theon - and kudos to the fat old Stark retainer who spat on him. Gutsy move, though it cost him his head.
Me, too. I love the dynamic between the soft-spoken assassin and Arya. “You have to kill him NOW!” she demands, and he raises his eyebrows in oh-so-mild annoyance. Next thing we see, dead Lannister minion faw down go boom.
The scenes with Arya and Tywin are also terrific. Charles Dance was born to play this part.
I think there’s something to this. And didja notice that when the Hound saved Sansa from the rapists, he killed three, but there was still one cowering just to the right as the Hound hoisted Sansa on his shoulders? I wonder if he let him go or if, seconds later, killed him on the way out.
Ah ha, I knew she looked familiar! Thanks.
He also outlawed slavery… or did King Robert do that, and he just enforced it? It was mentioned in S1 that he thus inconvenienced Ser Jorah.
Anyone notice that Cat didn’t introduce Brienne to Robb? Seemed a little odd. “Welcome home, Mom… and say, who’s this remarkably large and ugly armored woman with you?”
I wonder if Cersei really loves anybody.
She may just love the sex with Jaime. She may just love the fact that while Joff lives, she gets to be Queen Regent.
But, for some reason, she seems to be too damaged to me to love anyone.
Remember how she fawned over King Robert? She was very adept in making it look like she loved him. But she really hated him.
Cersei does not deserve her position as Queen Regent. I’d sure like to see her get a big old smackdown.
I did notice that - I thought it was surprisingly discourteous.
I think Ned went to King’s Landing because he could see that the King he had put into place was not serving the realm well. I think he went to try and be a good “Hand” and keep the country in one piece. Ned knows, more than most, that “Winter is Coming” and the level of suffering that will ensue if the Families can not be made to work together through it.
Of course there is - Robb is a teenaged kid who barely knows anything about anything and gets browbeaten by anyone with a pulse. Ned knows this, and he knows he’s not ready to rule a cheese sandwich. Which is why the Frey manage to bargain a wedding out of him, why his bannermen don’t respect him (or at least didn’t before he proved himself) and why Cat thinks it’s no big to tell him what to do nor stand in the way of the King in the North’s cock.
He’s just not ready to lead. Not intellectually, and not err… reputationally ?
Nope, but he didn’t know Joffrey* wasn’t *a sociopath either. He’s never met the kid. Even in societies where arranged marriages are the norm, you’re supposed to be familiar with the person you’re hawking your daughter to, and their family.
Why take her to King’s Landing at all, if not to flog her to some noble to be a patient embroidery-adept wife ? In private, he’s fond enough of her to offer her fencing lessons ; but don’t fool yourself into believing he didn’t think “Oh well, that’s her youthful fantasies, no harm in humouring her, she’ll come to heel eventually”.
And that’s fine, it really is - that’s what women were expected to do back then. But the keyword is “back then”. Just don’t expect me and my modern sensibilities to root for that sort of thing today.
Which, I’ll admit, is a bit bitchy of me - I loathed Kingdom of Heaven for foisting modern heroes on a medieval setting that of course was going to look bad in comparison, and I loathe the medieval heroes GoT foists on us and tells us to like 
I think this is intentional. Remember, Dany is still just a teen. She tries to fake confidence through threats, but her quivering voice and body language give her away. Hence, the merchant being unmoved. She was very frustrated, and clearly didn’t want to be in a position practically begging for help.
She loves her kids - Joffrey, Myrcella, Tommein. And she did love Robert once. Before he raped her on their wedding night, then humiliated her every single day of their marriage. I do think she really cares for Jaime too.
It’s funny, really - when I read the books I absolutely loathed Cersei. But now that I’ve “seen” her, particularly that S1 scene with Robert shortly before his death where they reminisced about the past and the could have beens, I sincerely pity her the whole way.
And the inverse is true for Cat, which I liked well enough in the books and can’t fucking stand since watching the series (and this despite being very fond of the actress portaying her, who looks like a wonderful woman).
Weird.
Yeah, I sort of got that. Her pleading at the gates carried the same “out of her depths” dimension. Still, what the fuck was up with her eyebrows this time, man ? 
(errr, that’s hocking, not hawking in post #95. I’m French ! I’m French ! I get to fuck up the language !)
Which is why I have said more than once (maybe not here but a lot IRL) that everyone in Westros is a dick, they just vary in their degree of dickishness.