I think the first episode suggested something supernatural or mystical about the direwolves. (Weren’t they considered extinct before that litter was found?) So I thought they would display some supernatural abilities. But so far, they’ve behaved like wolves.
And here are some things the Lannisters have done:
- Tyrion made a special saddle for Bran, so that he could ride again.
- Tyrion talked sensibly to Jon, and made him satisfied with his place at the wall.
- Tyrion didn’t sleep with Sansa, when she was uncomfortable with it. (Something judging by Robb’s remarks at the wedding, he would have no problem with.)
- Tyrion saved Kat even though she had imprisoned him and put him at risk for his life.
- Tywin was a good hand to the king. The nation was peaceful and prosperous.
- Jaime saved thousands of innocent lives, and had to live with the moniker “Kingslayer” in return.
- Jaime made up the story to protect Brienne from rape, putting risk on himself.
- Jaime went back to rescue Brienne at huge risk to himself.
not extinct just not commonly found south of the wall.
They’ve behaved like Wolves that behave more like dogs…really smart and obdient dogs.
When people talk about the evil Lannistesr…they usually aren’t referring to Tyrion.
At a certain point Tywin lost control of the Mad King.
Tywin is also not evil like a super villain. He’s ruthless and wants control for the betterment of who he deems worthy–namely the Lannisters.
Jamie and Brienne sitting in a tree… it’s called character progression.
Regarding slaying the king, yes he did it to save the city (but wasn’t he also IN the city at the time and probably would have died as well?) Although I do think Ned was needlessly a dick to Jamie in this scene but like was pointed out in their scene in the throne room, Jamie betrayed the king once it was safe to do so and was more than happy to be quiet while innocents suffered.
To be fair, though, most of that is Tyrion, who’s uncommonly compassionate for a Lannister, probably because his physical condition and the way he’s treated because of it gives him insight into the suffering of others. And it’s not like the Lannisters are pure liquid evil…Jaime, in particular, has a chivalrous streak (when he’s not pushing kids out of windows). But Ned and his kids did/do try to do the “honorable” thing, when given the chance.
I don’t mean to be “that guy” but one of the major takeaways from GoT is that there is no absolute good and no absolute evil. Everybody is flawed and what ends up happening isn’t always what’s right. Debating whether the Starks are better than the Lannisters isn’t just debating semantics - it defies one of the major “lessons” of the show/book. Both are by design flawed and both have - by design - redeeming features.
Except Cersei and Joffrey. Those two are c**ts (and I’m not talking about the 10th century Dane either).
And building on that - I’ve learned to stop speculating and just enjoy it for what it is. Hard as it may be, the show is more enjoyable as a pure 1-way medium. Any attempt to reason out the logic via tropes is futile. So for that Jon is Ned’s bastard and that’s good enough for me.
Wrong. It was, " You may not have my name, but you have my blood." He never used the word “son,” which is considered a major clue among the show-only crowd. no need for book-knowledge.
The Lannisters have been committing treason for 17 years. Seems like valid grounds to dismiss debts to me. Plus that makes room for Margaery to marry Robert. The realm just got a new sugar daddy. They’d be fine, or at least no worse.
Where did you hear that?
edit:Well that was actually answered already. Should pay more attention.
Lannister-lover! Admit it, you dig the whole twincest thing, don’t you? You want in on that Jaime/Cersei reunion bang, I can tell! 
Thanks!
Actually, I kind of have a soft spot for Cersei.
Yes, she’s a big meanie at times, but she really didn’t have the easiest life. Between simply “having been born a woman in Westeros” she was raised by a self-important, inflexible hardass ; got shotgun-wedded to a drunken pig who despised her ; gave birth to a psychopath who by now seems to hate her guts as well ; saw one of her other children shipped off to god knows where ; and is now firmly back in “women are supposed to be seen but not heard” territory as every string she’d spent most of her life weaving (and not altogether badly, at that) in order to claw at power snapped one by one.
On the whole, I’d be a smidge embittered by all that, too ;).
[QUOTE=jayjay]
Kobal2 and Push You Down, isn’t that bookstuff? Or at least fan speculation based on bookstuff rather than showstuff.
[/QUOTE]
FWIW, I only read the books up to Ned’s Xtreme haircut or so. The speculation re:who’s Jon [del]Galt[/del]Snow I picked up here or there, I honestly don’t know where. Probably Cracked.com. But it makes sense within the show as well. Ned really did go out of his way to be all enigmatic and shit about it.
The Internet.
So you know it’s true.
Robb is definitely not 14. First, look at him, that’s ridiculous. Also, Robert’s rebellion was 17 years before the start of season 1. Robb was born sometime during the rebellion. So he’s 17+ shit, 2 years?
This is a huge nitpick and probably not worth it at this point because I’m not sure I can convince you if others haven’t already, but Cersei IS NOT Jaime’s wife. She is Jaime’s SISTER. Jaime isn’t ALLOWED to have a wife OR CHILDREN because he’s on the Kingsguard (which is why it was such a HUMONGOUS deal when Tywin threatened to name Loras Tyrell to the Kingsguard if Lady Olenna would not consent to Loras’s marriage to Cersei). So, in addition to being totally squicky because of the whole incest thing, that’s TWICE he broke his oaths (well, actually, FOUR times, since Cersei has three living children that Jaime fathered, plus that whole stabbing-the-Mad-King-in-the-back thing).
Plus, as someone else mentioned, committing adultery with the Queen is treason, which is generally considered Kind Of A Big Deal.
Also, at the time that Jaime pushed Bran out the tower window, the Lannisters were NOT in power - at least not nominally. King Robert was a Baratheon. The Lannisters were certainly pulling a lot of strings and bankrolling a huge part of the Seven Kingdoms’ operations, but as far as we all know, the reason why Joffrey became king in the first place (instead of Stannis) is because he was known/believed/claimed to be Robert’s son.
(Not disputing that the Lannisters are powerful, but when Jaime pushed Bran out the window, their power came from their money and name recognition. The Baratheons actually held the throne at the time.)
Why the fuck should Robb care about the poor halfwit wife of Walder Frey? All she had to look forward to was more nights spreading her legs for the old creep, followed by death in childbirth. All his previous wives had died. No, he wasn’t quite the daughter-fucker that Craster was. But very close; the gene pool at the crossing seems pretty damn shallow & stagnant.
The room smelled of blood & death. The blood of Robb’s wife, who’d been carrying his child. His own blood & the blood of his mother. And of all his bannermen in the hall. If he had time to think, I’m pretty sure he guessed his men outside were dying too
With his brothers supposed dead and his sisters supposedly in the hands of the family that had engineered the massacre, why should Robb use his last breath to help anyone else? Just one more look at his mother and then, darkness.
Tyrion, who his father hates and Jaime, who is no longer the golden boy, are the only Lannisters who should live. Oh, and little Tommen & the girl down in Dorne. Let’s hope Tywin enjoys his victory…
I believe his last words to Jon were “We’ll talk about your mother when I get back - I promise.”
It’s right up there with Robb’s “gee, I have an amazing wife, and we’re going to have a baby, and I’m all lined up to be King . . . for some reason the guys call me Dead Meat.”
What up to this point has led you to believe that’ll happen?
Of course you wouldn’t. You seem completely incapable of empathy. This is a woman who had her husband wrongly beheaded, believes all but one of her other children dead and the other in control of the people who killed her husband. Her last, and eldest, is, at the moment, being betrayed (yes, he broke an oath, but the proper way to deal with an oathbreaker isn’t this way) and brutally murdered. So, yeah, she might be reacting in the most moral fashion. But I’m sure you would. :rolleyes:
Maybe he just has no understanding of the concept of context.
Jaime flippantly tossed a 10 year old out a window to die, then immediately made a joke about it with a smile on his face. His joke may have actually been voiced before Brann even hit the ground.
Cat had JUST sworn a blood oath that if Robb were set free all would be forgiven but if not she would kill the wife. Robb was not set free, so Cat carried out her oath, in a screaming fit of incomprehensible rage and grief.
That you consider these acts equivalent is truly remarkable. The only reasons I can think of is just to be contrary, so that you can feel like you are the smartest person in the room who sees what nobody else sees, or maybe you don’t actually understand humans. Either way, it’s pretty embarrassing.